---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/29/17: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:24 AM - aileron balancing (Rowland Carson) 2. 09:57 AM - Re: aileron balancing (William Daniell) 3. 11:18 AM - Re: aileron balancing (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 4. 12:43 PM - UK trip report Scilly Isles (graeme bird) 5. 01:08 PM - Re: aileron balancing (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 6. 02:42 PM - Re: UK trip report Scilly Isles (James Kelly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:37 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: aileron balancing Having got my ailerons back from the painter, I weighed them. The port one was 2480g before filling, profiling & painting; that whole process has added 625g to make it now 3105g. The starboard one was 2495g, and gained 670g to make it 3165g. The paint was 2-pack automotive which I was assured would turn out much lighter (and cheaper!) than the gel-coat I had originally envisaged. I started into the balancing procedure described in the manual. I found my hinges are not quite free enough to let the ailerons swing freely from them, so I made loops of nylon fishing line, put them under the hinge knuckles and suspended the ailerons from them. Alas! - both the ailerons balance with the TE slightly down. I find that if I put a lead weight on one horn, I can make the aileron balance level. My piece of lead weighs 366g and level balance is obtained with it about 50mm forward of the hinge line. Thus the out-of-balance moment towards the TE is 0.0183 metre-kg. I wonder if there is any tolerance on the amount of out-of-balance that is allowed or is safe - but I dont want to take any chances with flutter. Avid readers of my online build journal will recall that in May 2003, on advice from Neville about getting the proper aileron travel, I shaved a little off the top of the lead weights before attaching them to the aileron horns. It now appears that either I must have shaved too much or that the painting has been much more generous than Neville expected. What should I do? I suppose the ideal thing is to rub down all the paint back to the glass/filler again and ask the painter to put on a lighter coat. I dont have access to depleted uranium to insert into the mass horns to make them heavier! I hope I might see Andy Draper at the LAA Rally and ask for his advice, but would welcome any thoughts others on this forum might have on the matter. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:50 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: aileron balancing Rowland. When I balanced mine - admittedly I had not shaved anything off the top - I not only had to drill a 1/2" hole, I practically had to hollow out the weights to get them to balance per the manual. It was a very annoying job with the drill bit catching on the lead etc. I read from the forum that this is quite common. So it surprises me that yours balance TE down.... perhaps some pics of your aileron balance horn and the box into which it fits might be helpful. Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Rowland Carson wrote: m > > > > Having got my ailerons back from the painter, I weighed them. The port on e > was 2480g before filling, profiling & painting; that whole process has > added 625g to make it now 3105g. The starboard one was 2495g, and gained > 670g to make it 3165g. The paint was 2-pack automotive which I was assure d > would turn out much lighter (and cheaper!) than the gel-coat I had > originally envisaged. > > I started into the balancing procedure described in the manual. I found m y > hinges are not quite free enough to let the ailerons swing freely from > them, so I made loops of nylon fishing line, put them under the hinge > knuckles and suspended the ailerons from them. Alas! - both the ailerons > balance with the TE slightly down. I find that if I put a lead weight on > one horn, I can make the aileron balance level. My piece of lead weighs > 366g and level balance is obtained with it about 50mm forward of the hing e > line. > > Thus the out-of-balance moment towards the TE is 0.0183 metre-kg. I wonde r > if there is any tolerance on the amount of out-of-balance that is allowed > or is safe - but I don=99t want to take any chances with flutter. > > Avid readers of my online build journal will recall that in May 2003, on > advice from Neville about getting the proper aileron travel, I shaved a > little off the top of the lead weights before attaching them to the ailer on > horns. It now appears that either I must have shaved too much or that the > painting has been much more generous than Neville expected. > > What should I do? I suppose the ideal thing is to rub down all the paint > back to the glass/filler again and ask the painter to put on a lighter > coat. I don=99t have access to depleted uranium to insert into the mass horns > to make them heavier! > > I hope I might see Andy Draper at the LAA Rally and ask for his advice, > but would welcome any thoughts others on this forum might have on the > matter. > > in friendship > > Rowland > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:59 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: aileron balancing Rowland, I am appalled/alarmed to hear that each aileron has gained something like 1.5 lbs. I would suggest a couple of things - firstly do a surface area calculation and work out how much weight the whole aircraft is due to gain with current paint system, and secondly sand it off one aileron and get Roger Targett to gel coat it, rub it down to that perfect laminar flow finish and see how much that has added. The great thing about gel coat is that you remove most of it, rubbing down with wet and dry sandpaper. My gel coated 914 XS is one of the lightest on the register and it is not because of lack of kit! I would have done some calculations myself but I have the dominant cat sitting on my lap and he would be most offended if I went to measure things up! My mental guesstimation though is that the ailerons have probably a bit less than 2% of total area, so you may be looking at your paint adding 100lbs, which seems a fairly serious issue. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2017-08-29 17:56, William Daniell wrote: > Rowland. > > When I balanced mine - admittedly I had not shaved anything off the top - I not only had to drill a 1/2" hole, I practically had to hollow out the weights to get them to balance per the manual. It was a very annoying job with the drill bit catching on the lead etc. I read from the forum that this is quite common. > > So it surprises me that yours balance TE down.... perhaps some pics of your aileron balance horn and the box into which it fits might be helpful. > > Will > > William Daniell LONGPORT > > +57 310 295 0744 > > On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Rowland Carson wrote: > >> >> Having got my ailerons back from the painter, I weighed them. The port one was 2480g before filling, profiling & painting; that whole process has added 625g to make it now 3105g. The starboard one was 2495g, and gained 670g to make it 3165g. The paint was 2-pack automotive which I was assured would turn out much lighter (and cheaper!) than the gel-coat I had originally envisaged. >> >> I started into the balancing procedure described in the manual. I found my hinges are not quite free enough to let the ailerons swing freely from them, so I made loops of nylon fishing line, put them under the hinge knuckles and suspended the ailerons from them. Alas! - both the ailerons balance with the TE slightly down. I find that if I put a lead weight on one horn, I can make the aileron balance level. My piece of lead weighs 366g and level balance is obtained with it about 50mm forward of the hinge line. >> >> Thus the out-of-balance moment towards the TE is 0.0183 metre-kg. I wonder if there is any tolerance on the amount of out-of-balance that is allowed or is safe - but I don't want to take any chances with flutter. >> >> Avid readers of my online build journal will recall that in May 2003, on advice from Neville about getting the proper aileron travel, I shaved a little off the top of the lead weights before attaching them to the aileron horns. It now appears that either I must have shaved too much or that the painting has been much more generous than Neville expected. >> >> What should I do? I suppose the ideal thing is to rub down all the paint back to the glass/filler again and ask the painter to put on a lighter coat. I don't have access to depleted uranium to insert into the mass horns to make them heavier! >> >> I hope I might see Andy Draper at the LAA Rally and ask for his advice, but would welcome any thoughts others on this forum might have on the matter. >> >> in friendship >> >> Rowland >> >> | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... >> | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk [1] >> | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson >> >> =================================== >> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> =================================== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> =================================== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> =================================== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> =================================== Links: ------ [1] http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:17 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: UK trip report Scilly Isles From: "graeme bird" https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=105228 In case anyone is vaguely interested Lovely place -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus, SmartA3 290 hours & 5 years on the Mono, 930 total g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472328#472328 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:08 PM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: aileron balancing Rowlandyou could try some tunsten carbide grinding dust from you local tool grinder?Mixed with a little epoxy its heavier than lead.Also polish off so me of the paint, at the trailing edge will have most effect of course. Graham On Tuesday, 29 August 2017, 17:27, Rowland Carson wrote: > Having got my ailerons back from the painter, I weighed them. The port one was 2480g before filling, profiling & painting; that whole process has adde d 625g to make it now 3105g. The starboard one was 2495g, and gained 670g t o make it 3165g. The paint was 2-pack automotive which I was assured would turn out much lighter (and cheaper!) than the gel-coat I had originally env isaged. I started into the balancing procedure described in the manual. I found my hinges are not quite free enough to let the ailerons swing freely from them , so I made loops of nylon fishing line, put them under the hinge knuckles and suspended the ailerons from them. Alas! - both the ailerons balance wit h the TE slightly down. I find that if I put a lead weight on one horn, I c an make the aileron balance level. My piece of lead weighs 366g and level b alance is obtained with it about 50mm forward of the hinge line. Thus the out-of-balance moment towards the TE is 0.0183 metre-kg. I wonder if there is any tolerance on the amount of out-of-balance that is allowed o r is safe - but I don=99t want to take any chances with flutter. Avid readers of my online build journal will recall that in May 2003, on ad vice from Neville about getting the proper aileron travel, I shaved a littl e off the top of the lead weights before attaching them to the aileron horn s. It now appears that either I must have shaved too much or that the paint ing has been much more generous than Neville expected. What should I do? I suppose the ideal thing is to rub down all the paint ba ck to the glass/filler again and ask the painter to put on a lighter coat. I don=99t have access to depleted uranium to insert into the mass hor ns to make them heavier! I hope I might see Andy Draper at the LAA Rally and ask for his advice, but would welcome any thoughts others on this forum might have on the matter. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- http:/ /www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson=C2- =C2- =C2- Facebook: Rowland Cars on S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: UK trip report Scilly Isles From: James Kelly Hello Graeme, It's a pity you didn't arrive on Friday we flew in from Tatenhill and departed the following day. It was my 30th visit we normally stay for a month or so, that's when I was sailing. My first flight to St Mary's was an experience landing on 14. My Europa 053 is a conventional Taildragger G-BWEG with no frills. I've sailed and delivered yachts sail and motor all over Europe and nothing compares to the Scillies. Best wishes Jim Kelly Sent from my iPad > On 29 Aug 2017, at 20:42, graeme bird wrote: > > > https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=105228 > In case anyone is vaguely interested > Lovely place > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus, SmartA3 > 290 hours & 5 years on the Mono, 930 total > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472328#472328 > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.