---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/16/17: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:41 AM - Re: Re: VENTILATION IN FLIGHT & POSITIVE CABIN PRESSURE (Kevin Challis) 2. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: VENTILATION IN FLIGHT & POSITIVE CABIN PRESSURE (Bud Yerly) 3. 06:31 AM - Re: Looks like Bud's area wasn't hit to bad (Bud Yerly) 4. 02:02 PM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__Looks_like_Bud's_area_wasn't_hit_to_bad? () 5. 07:18 PM - Re: Looks like Bud's area wasn't hit to bad (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:24 AM PST US From: Kevin Challis Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: VENTILATION IN FLIGHT & POSITIVE CABIN PRESSURE I use a household carbon monoxide detector and it works great. Detects low l evels over a period of time rather than just high levels. You can here it wi th headsets on. Kevin Challis > On 15 Sep 2017, at 19:12, david park wrote: > > These indicators have three levels but not parts per million? And rely on y ou seeing it before you nod off to sleep! > > Dave Park > > >> On 15 Sep 2017, at 09:37, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote: >> >> Clive, Replying to your suggestion that perhaps one of our medical friend s will comment on the significance of lower levels of carbon monoxide exposu re, my answer would be that anyone who has taken the trouble to read Wikiped ia on the subject is likely to know as much or more than the majority of doc tors who are not working in toxicology! I would say that no carbon monoxide i s best to aim for but moderate levels only put you in the same state as a sm oker ( I guess without the cancer risks), but you will have worked that out f or yourself! >> >> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ >> >> >> >> >>> On 2017-09-15 08:58, clivesutton wrote: >>> om> >>> >>> If i may chip in on this: >>> >>> I have two of the Ultimate Ventilators - each fitted in the side quarter section of the windscreen. Though ridiculously expensive, they work well w hen you need a blast of cold air - and their design helps to be able to dire ct that air blast. >>> >>> I have a Fireangel CO monitor mounted on the firewall part of the parcel shelf facing the P2 seat (that i fitted with an 'off' switch to try and imp rove battery life). It's interesting to note how the CO levels vary on a fl ight: >>> >>> a) The levels are >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472897#472897 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >>> ics.com >>> .com >>> .matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:56 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: VENTILATION IN FLIGHT & POSITIVE CABIN PRESSURE Fred and others, Finding exhaust intrusion into the cockpit is not intuitive. Your very nic e wing gap seal is the key to many of the exhaust intrusion problems. >From older posts on the subject: NACA cockpit vents supplied in the kit placed low on the cockpit side, allo w a direct inlet of exhaust gas to the pilots side. Placing the vents on o r near the fuselage glue line helps. Always seal the wing root area well as the stock exhaust will arc up right into the leading edge of the wing and come in through the gap, enter the ri gging hole and into the cockpit through the tunnel. Mono wheel extension causes a draw behind the gear arm and can suck in exha ust into the wheel well. Holes in the wheel well around throttle, brake, g ear handle etc. and a cockpit that has high draw out will exacerbate the pr oblem. Exhaust pipes should be long enough to move the exhaust well clear of the c ockpit inlets. (This is where my nice short exhaust stack out of the 914 l eaves a easily seen exhaust lead trace on the fuselage, that exhaust trace showed that during climb, exhaust gas goes from the pipe, and arcs directl y up and over the wing root during climbs below 100 knots. My NACA cockpit vent is right in line with the exhaust trace. As you know I have my Ultim ate Ventilators in my windscreen corners because of it.) You can=92t get quality air flow in the cockpit unless the cockpit is a low pressure. The lowest pressure area is on the top of the canopy. If the c ockpit seals are not tight, this will lower the air pressure in the cockpit improving the draw of air into the cockpit and through the wheel well to c ockpit holes. The rear fuselage is generally a lower pressure area. I put vents or stand offs the D panel cover to exhaust air out of the cockpit and improve press ure vent performance. At low speed or high angles of attack the suction of air at the wing root fillet is quite high. Jabiru exhaust pipes coming right out of the center cowl will, at high angl es of attack, inject exhaust into the wheel well with the mono gear down. Pipes must be angled to clear the mono trailer arm for transport anyway so move the Jabiru pipes outboard and exhaust intrusion can be reduced also. Trigear aircraft built with a sealed wheel well, rarely have an exhaust int rusion problem unless the cockpit vents are in line with the exhaust, or th e wing gap seals are leaky. Pay attention to the hole behind the wing root right where the flap and roo t come together. Looking into the wing root from behind the wing will show a direct path to the rigging hole and a direct cockpit gas entry. (I=92ve never had a problem with this hole if the gap all around the wing fillet i s sealed tightly.) Mono wheels in the retracted position tend to have a large bubble of air ca using pressure in the wheel well that makes for a high flow of air through the gear, brake and throttle slots in the wheel well making for a cold cock pit at altitude. Keep the gaps around the main wheel as small as possible. Silicone cowl seal or similar will reduce the gap in these slots and help keep dirt, grass and cold air out of the cockpit. (Exhaust also I guess.) Just archive searching. Regards, Bud Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 From: Fred Klein Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 3:42 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: VENTILATION IN FLIGHT & POSITIVE CABIN PRESSU RE On Sep 14, 2017, at 11:38 AM, Brian Davies > wrote: I had a CO problem about a year ago and carried out some investigation. Th e big clue, found by using a CO meter, was that the CO doubled when the fla ps were down. I talked to Andy Draper who said the exhaust gases could ent er via the flap slots and travel forwards through the tunnel and into the c ockpit via the various control slots. I resisted cleaning my aircraft for a period and traced exhaust stains along the fuselage that travelled to the (Trigear) leg/fuse join and up to the flap slot. These enhanced wing root fairings cover the flap slot=85 Also=85one of the reasons my bird has yet to fly... [cid:9FD605E2-0485-440D-9B19-C2BFBCE7C839@Home] [cid:E0075722-EE68-4CC8-B4B2-6D6CA1E9B9E3@Home] [cid:7D5F68EB-C1AD-431C-959A-F7E2B326662E@Home] [cid:DFD3498F-3DBE-4BD0-8FFD-C35F517207B5@Home] ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:39 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Looks like Bud's area wasn't hit to bad Mike, I=92m glad you have a tail dragger to get some time in. Is a Luscombe with a bad wheel alignment on steroids. A Champ or Cub are too docile. A Cita bria with the stiff gear spring legs is pretty good or a short wing Piper p acer. Once you have the three point attitude down, it is a pussy cat. I was weather cancelled for my stress test last week. I have been unable t o get it rescheduled this week. I=92m itching to get back in the air and s hould be good to go by the end of this month if I can get the doctors to co operate. I always like to have all the pilots on the policy. Check with your insura nce company, normally one test pilot or instructor pilot is not an extra ch arge. Also check as some companies will not insure the hull until a certai n number of hours are on the airframe. Early November is great. We have another grandbaby coming this week and Gr andmas have booked me for early October for two weeks. Stay out of the sun out there, the weather channel shows its pretty brutal right now. Regards, Bud Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 From: Mike Christine Duane Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 5:01 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Looks like Bud's area wasn't hit to bad Glad to hear you and Anita came through it well. For some reason, I figured you would be well-prepared. I believe I have a line on a hanger at Henderson executive airport come Nov ember 1. I also lined up a CFI that has access to a Taildragger, so I can g et my BFR and hours to help calm the insurance companies when I contact the m. Towards that end, I have a couple of questions so that I know which way to proceed. Are you still inclined to come out to Las Vegas for the first flig ht and flight testing? How is your flight status? When I contact the insur ance company, do I have your name added as a pilot to the policy? I was thi nking of starting the flight testing the beginning of November. I think we should have nice comfortable weather for the flight testing. How does that sit with your schedule. Looking forward to it. Mike Duane N377EA Sent from my iPhone On Sep 15, 2017, at 7:14 AM, Bud Yerly > wrote: To all: We made it through Hurricane Irma just fine. The eye went over our house i n Valrico about 1AM on Monday. Winds on the West side of the eye wall were only 80-90 mph. Trees were knocked down and power out until Thursday. Th e shop had some screws come out of the roofing and only a few drips. Many limbs and branches to clean up. The Plant City Airport hangar I use is fin e. The shaking just made a mess of the interior due to paint and dirt/bird droppings falling from the ceilings. Just cleanup. At home, we were prepared. Storm surge/ waters have to hit 100 feet to get to my house, we have a 5500 watt generator, water purifiers, a 15,000 gall on pool for a water source, plenty of food and of course plywood for coveri ng up windows. We don=92t power our AC unit so fans were necessary to beat the heat. Our home is reinforced to Cat 2 hurricane standards and we have seen 115 mph winds before. Our roof has not just new shingles, we have a peel and stick, self healing membrane on the roof. To meet cat three I jus t need ply on my patio / lani doors and internal reinforced garage door sup ports. It is OK for us to weather a Cat 2 but trust me, I won=92t be here for a Cat 3. Not worth it. I feel bad about the East coast of Florida as they never expected the storm surge of water of which almost nothing can be done about the flooding and power of water. Shame, as most of us never saw that coming with the storm over the West coast and moving north so fast, but it was a very large storm and even ships were floated inland as far north as South Carolina. The st orm luckily missed Key West and although power was out, and trees are down, the city is not too bad considering. We don=92t know how Creighton Smith =92s house is yet on Pine Island which is between Sarasota and Fort Meyers. I think Ira Rampil in Griffin Ga. had more wind, tornados and rain than I did. He did well as his place is well built. Best Regards, Bud and Anita Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 From: AirEupora Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 10:34 AM Subject: Europa-List: Looks like Bud's area wasn't hit to bad lto:AirEupora@sbcglobal.net>> http://tbtpics.tampabay.com/news/weather/hurricanes/hillsborough-spared-wid espread-damage-from-hurricane-irma/2337039 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472780#472780 st Email Forum - pa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - ums.matronics.com p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - matronics.com p; - List Contribution Web Site - p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:18 PM PST US From: Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Looks_like_Bud's_area_wasn't_hit_to_bad? 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wasn't hit to bad Mike that=92s great. You will go along gladly with whatever grandma wants to do. Congrats, it=92s really great as you can spoil the hell out of them, and th en go home and never change a diaper. Bud Sent from Mail for Window s 10 From: duanefamly@aol.com Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2017 5:11 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Looks like Bud's area wasn't hit to bad >From my conversation with the CFI, it should be a Citabria. I will be contacting the insurance agent on Monday to have him get me infor mation. I understand your situation with Anita wanting to see the G=92Baby=85.Chris tine and I were just informed by our youngest son that they are pregnant. A nd since this is our first grandchild, I think Chrissy will be a mad woman come May 1st. I=92ll keep you informed of my progress. Mike Sent from Windows Mail From: budyerly@msn.com Sent: =FDSaturday=FD, =FDSeptember=FD =FD16=FD, =FD2017 =FD6=FD:=FD30=FD =FDAM Mike, I=92m glad you have a tail dragger to get some time in. Is a Luscombe with a bad wheel alignment on steroids. A Champ or Cub are too docile. A Cita bria with the stiff gear spring legs is pretty good or a short wing Piper p acer. Once you have the three point attitude down, it is a pussy cat. I was weather cancelled for my stress test last week. I have been unable t o get it rescheduled this week. I=92m itching to get back in the air and s hould be good to go by the end of this month if I can get the doctors to co operate. I always like to have all the pilots on the policy. Check with your insura nce company, normally one test pilot or instructor pilot is not an extra ch arge. Also check as some companies will not insure the hull until a certai n number of hours are on the airframe. Early November is great. We have another grandbaby coming this week and Gr andmas have booked me for early October for two weeks. Stay out of the sun out there, the weather channel shows its pretty brutal right now. Regards, Bud Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 From: Mike Christine Duane Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 5:01 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Looks like Bud's area wasn't hit to bad Glad to hear you and Anita came through it well. For some reason, I figured you would be well-prepared. I believe I have a line on a hanger at Henderson executive airport come Nov ember 1. I also lined up a CFI that has access to a Taildragger, so I can g et my BFR and hours to help calm the insurance companies when I contact the m. Towards that end, I have a couple of questions so that I know which way to proceed. Are you still inclined to come out to Las Vegas for the first flig ht and flight testing? How is your flight status? When I contact the insur ance company, do I have your name added as a pilot to the policy? I was thi nking of starting the flight testing the beginning of November. I think we should have nice comfortable weather for the flight testing. How does that sit with your schedule. Looking forward to it. Mike Duane N377EA Sent from my iPhone On Sep 15, 2017, at 7:14 AM, Bud Yerly > wrote: To all: We made it through Hurricane Irma just fine. The eye went over our house i n Valrico about 1AM on Monday. Winds on the West side of the eye wall were only 80-90 mph. Trees were knocked down and power out until Thursday. Th e shop had some screws come out of the roofing and only a few drips. Many limbs and branches to clean up. The Plant City Airport hangar I use is fin e. The shaking just made a mess of the interior due to paint and dirt/bird droppings falling from the ceilings. Just cleanup. At home, we were prepared. Storm surge/ waters have to hit 100 feet to get to my house, we have a 5500 watt generator, water purifiers, a 15,000 gall on pool for a water source, plenty of food and of course plywood for coveri ng up windows. We don=92t power our AC unit so fans were necessary to beat the heat. Our home is reinforced to Cat 2 hurricane standards and we have seen 115 mph winds before. Our roof has not just new shingles, we have a peel and stick, self healing membrane on the roof. To meet cat three I jus t need ply on my patio / lani doors and internal reinforced garage door sup ports. It is OK for us to weather a Cat 2 but trust me, I won=92t be here for a Cat 3. Not worth it. I feel bad about the East coast of Florida as they never expected the storm surge of water of which almost nothing can be done about the flooding and power of water. Shame, as most of us never saw that coming with the storm over the West coast and moving north so fast, but it was a very large storm and even ships were floated inland as far north as South Carolina. The st orm luckily missed Key West and although power was out, and trees are down, the city is not too bad considering. We don=92t know how Creighton Smith =92s house is yet on Pine Island which is between Sarasota and Fort Meyers. I think Ira Rampil in Griffin Ga. had more wind, tornados and rain than I did. He did well as his place is well built. Best Regards, Bud and Anita Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 From: AirEupora Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 10:34 AM Subject: Europa-List: Looks like Bud's area wasn't hit to bad lto:AirEupora@sbcglobal.net>> http://tbtpics.tampabay.com/news/weather/hurricanes/hillsborough-spared-wid espread-damage-from-hurricane-irma/2337039 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472780#472780 st Email Forum - pa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - ums.matronics.com p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - matronics.com p; - List Contribution Web Site - p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.