---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/09/17: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:23 AM - Re: Ammeter spike (William Daniell) 2. 11:45 AM - Re: Ammeter spike (Pete) 3. 08:16 PM - Re: Ammeter spike (William Daniell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:36 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ammeter spike Pete 1. Here is the wiring schematic which is stock Europa. 2. the "slow blow fuzes" in the diagram where replaced with 25A and 30A Circuit breakers respectively 3. The spike occurred when I pulled the ALT circuit breaker while the engine was running. I didn't leave it out for long because I was worried about damage to the system. 4. I did not pull the battery CB at the same time. So in summary the ALT CB, when pulled, shuts down the ALT feed to the bus. My understanding was that one needed to be able to power the electrical system from either the battery or the alternator alone in the case an emergency. Many thanks Will [image: Inline image 1] William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Pete wrote: > Id need to see your wiring schematic, and understand exactly when this > surge occurs....but there will be a surge if the capacitor is in a > discharged state, and if there is a switch and shunt between the capacitor > and the ducatti dump-regulator output, and this switch is closed after the > engine is already running. > > On Oct 7, 2017, at 3:17 AM, William Daniell > wrote: > > Pete > thanks. Is this a problem/potential problem? Or is this a short term > event? > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Pete wrote: > >> >> Depending upon where the large capacitor is, yes, it could spike like >> that of it was discharged. >> >> > On Oct 6, 2017, at 11:52 AM, William Daniell < >> wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > I have a dynon skyview and the ammeter reads off the shunt per dynon >> manual. My electrical system is standard europa without deviation and i >> have a rotax 912 >> > >> > The last time a flew when i started the engine had a red x over the >> ammeter (ie not working) where it had worked on the previous flight. >> > >> > I pulled the alt 30A cb which reset the "instrument" and thereafter it >> read normally. I left the 30A battery cb set during this process. >> > >> > My question: When I pulled the cb the amp reading, once it came alive, >> spiked up to 60A. I immediately reset the cb and everything settled back >> down to its normal readings. >> > >> > Is this spike normal? >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Will >> >> =================================== >> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ >> Navigator?Europa-List >> =================================== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> =================================== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> =================================== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> =================================== >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ammeter spike From: Pete =46rom your diagram, I cannot see any reason for an excessive current spike w hen the alt switch/breaker is pulled, and the battery is left in the circuit supplying the total load (since the capacitor i referenced is before the al t switch on the alt side). You are correct that you should be able to run o ff battery with the alt disconnected. What is the voltage on the bus when on battery only? What is the buss voltage and battery current with everything t urned on and engine stopped (and alt cct bkr pulled)? You could also try st arting and running with the alt disconnected, and monitor/record the current and voltage. Something seems amiss if you are seeing a 60A current spike when taking the a lternator out of the cct. Could it be that you actually have a short somewhe re on your buss, and the alternator is working like crazy to satisfy it, par tially masking the ammeter reading? Is the alternator actually charging the b attery when in the cct and engine running? What is the buss voltage in that c ondition? Hth, Pete > On Oct 9, 2017, at 8:22 AM, William Daniell w rote: > > Pete > 1. Here is the wiring schematic which is stock Europa. > 2. the "slow blow fuzes" in the diagram where replaced with 25A and 30A C ircuit breakers respectively > 3. The spike occurred when I pulled the ALT circuit breaker while the eng ine was running. I didn't leave it out for long because I was worried about damage to the system. > 4. I did not pull the battery CB at the same time. > > So in summary the ALT CB, when pulled, shuts down the ALT feed to the bus. > > My understanding was that one needed to be able to power the electrical sy stem from either the battery or the alternator alone in the case an emergenc y. > > Many thanks > > Will > > > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > >> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Pete wrote: >> Id need to see your wiring schematic, and understand exactly when this su rge occurs....but there will be a surge if the capacitor is in a discharged s tate, and if there is a switch and shunt between the capacitor and the ducat ti dump-regulator output, and this switch is closed after the engine is alre ady running. >> >>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 3:17 AM, William Daniell wrote: >>> >>> Pete >>> thanks. Is this a problem/potential problem? Or is this a short term e vent? >>> Will >>> >>> William Daniell >>> LONGPORT >>> +57 310 295 0744 >>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Pete wrote: >>>> >>>> Depending upon where the large capacitor is, yes, it could spike like t hat of it was discharged. >>>> >>>> > On Oct 6, 2017, at 11:52 AM, William Daniell wrote: >>>> > >>>> > I have a dynon skyview and the ammeter reads off the shunt per dynon m anual. My electrical system is standard europa without deviation and i have a rotax 912 >>>> > >>>> > The last time a flew when i started the engine had a red x over the a mmeter (ie not working) where it had worked on the previous flight. >>>> > >>>> > I pulled the alt 30A cb which reset the "instrument" and thereafter i t read normally. I left the 30A battery cb set during this process. >>>> > >>>> > My question: When I pulled the cb the amp reading, once it came aliv e, spiked up to 60A. I immediately reset the cb and everything settled back down to its normal readings. >>>> > >>>> > Is this spike normal? >>>> > >>>> > Thanks >>>> > >>>> > Will >>>> >>>> ========== >>>> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Europa-List >>>> ========== >>>> FORUMS - >>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>>> ========== >>>> WIKI - >>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>>> ========== >>>> b Site - >>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion >>>> ========== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:59 PM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ammeter spike Pete Many thanks Stand by. I am in, of all places, istanbul. On my way back to base tomorrow. Will perforn checks over the weekend and report back. Will On Oct 9, 2017 21:48, "Pete" wrote: >From your diagram, I cannot see any reason for an excessive current spike when the alt switch/breaker is pulled, and the battery is left in the circuit supplying the total load (since the capacitor i referenced is before the alt switch on the alt side). You are correct that you should be able to run off battery with the alt disconnected. What is the voltage on the bus when on battery only? What is the buss voltage and battery current with everything turned on and engine stopped (and alt cct bkr pulled)? You could also try starting and running with the alt disconnected, and monitor/record the current and voltage. Something seems amiss if you are seeing a 60A current spike when taking the alternator out of the cct. Could it be that you actually have a short somewhere on your buss, and the alternator is working like crazy to satisfy it, partially masking the ammeter reading? Is the alternator actually charging the battery when in the cct and engine running? What is the buss voltage in that condition? Hth, Pete On Oct 9, 2017, at 8:22 AM, William Daniell wrote: Pete 1. Here is the wiring schematic which is stock Europa. 2. the "slow blow fuzes" in the diagram where replaced with 25A and 30A Circuit breakers respectively 3. The spike occurred when I pulled the ALT circuit breaker while the engine was running. I didn't leave it out for long because I was worried about damage to the system. 4. I did not pull the battery CB at the same time. So in summary the ALT CB, when pulled, shuts down the ALT feed to the bus. My understanding was that one needed to be able to power the electrical system from either the battery or the alternator alone in the case an emergency. Many thanks Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Pete wrote: > Id need to see your wiring schematic, and understand exactly when this > surge occurs....but there will be a surge if the capacitor is in a > discharged state, and if there is a switch and shunt between the capacitor > and the ducatti dump-regulator output, and this switch is closed after the > engine is already running. > > On Oct 7, 2017, at 3:17 AM, William Daniell > wrote: > > Pete > thanks. Is this a problem/potential problem? Or is this a short term > event? > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Pete wrote: > >> >> Depending upon where the large capacitor is, yes, it could spike like >> that of it was discharged. >> >> > On Oct 6, 2017, at 11:52 AM, William Daniell < >> wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > I have a dynon skyview and the ammeter reads off the shunt per dynon >> manual. My electrical system is standard europa without deviation and i >> have a rotax 912 >> > >> > The last time a flew when i started the engine had a red x over the >> ammeter (ie not working) where it had worked on the previous flight. >> > >> > I pulled the alt 30A cb which reset the "instrument" and thereafter it >> read normally. I left the 30A battery cb set during this process. >> > >> > My question: When I pulled the cb the amp reading, once it came alive, >> spiked up to 60A. I immediately reset the cb and everything settled back >> down to its normal readings. >> > >> > Is this spike normal? >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Will >> >> ========== >> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ >> Navigator?Europa-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.