Europa-List Digest Archive

Sun 10/29/17


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:32 AM - Re: New Owner of a 2001 Europa XS (Bob Hitchcock)
     2. 01:38 AM - Installation of pre-fabricated wing root fairings (tonyvaccarella)
     3. 02:09 AM - Re: Re: Europa Cowl Resin (Brian Davies)
     4. 02:53 AM - Re: Re: Europa Cowl Resin (ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net)
     5. 03:12 AM - Re: Installation of pre-fabricated wing root fairings (Alan Twigg)
     6. 03:28 AM - Re: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only (ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net)
     7. 03:38 AM - Re: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only (ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net)
     8. 03:48 AM - Re: Flaps (Nigel Graham)
     9. 04:23 AM - Re: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only (ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net)
    10. 02:13 PM - Removable Instrument Panel mod 63 (William Bliss)
    11. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: Europa Cowl Resin (Fred Klein)
    12. 07:21 PM - Re: Installation of pre-fabricated wing root fairings (tonyvaccarella)
    13. 11:32 PM - Re: Re: Europa Cowl Resin (Kingsley Hurst)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:32:34 AM PST US
    From: Bob Hitchcock <bobhitchcock@icloud.com>
    Subject: Re: New Owner of a 2001 Europa XS
    Hi Robert The first step is to join the Europa club which will give you access to cons iderable amount of material. The highly recommended Europa Flyer gets delive red to you on a regular basis. As you joined last night you are our officially our newest member. Welcome to the Europa Club. After the UK. The US is the most active part of t he Europa Club Regards Bob Secretary, The Europa Club http://www.theeuropaclub.org/


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:38:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Installation of pre-fabricated wing root fairings
    From: "tonyvaccarella" <tony@weimagine.com.au>
    Hi all, Im getting ready to install my pre-fabricated wing root fairings for my Classic Wing. The Classic builders manual describes how to construct these fairings from scratch but Im having problems finding how I should install these pre-made fairings. My initial thought was to scuff the fairing and the wing root where they meet and use flox to bond them and then add two layers of BID to the outside. But rather than guessing at this, or trying to reinvent the wheel - so to speak, Im wondering what other members of this forum have done to install these? Attached is a picture of the port-side fairing. Thanks for your help... Cheers Tony Vaccarella VH-VOW Sydney Australia -------- Tony Vaccarella Mascot NSW 2020 Sydney Australia Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473923#473923 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_root_fairing_727.jpg


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:09:00 AM PST US
    From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Europa Cowl Resin
    My understanding is that it is perfectly acceptable, and maybe even desirable, to use epoxy resin on cured polyester surfaces. It is not acceptable to use polyester resin on cured epoxy surfaces because it does not bond well that way round. Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Sent: 29 October 2017 01:21 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa Cowl Resin Thnks for that info! That means any door strut mods need to be done in poly and not epoxy then? I've not heard that to date....or maybe i wasnt listening ;) Cheers and thx, Pete > On Oct 28, 2017, at 6:57 PM, Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> wrote: > > --> <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> > > Remi is correct. All the grey coloured components supplied with the original kit (cowls, doors, "D" panel and the speed kit) were manufactured with woven glass and polyester resin. > If you need a heat tolerant polyester resin for cowling mods, use a "tooling" grade product. These are designed to withstand autoclave temperatures and have minimal shrink characteristics. I use "Optimould". > > Hope this helps > > Nigel > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473917#473917 > > > > > > > > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:53:58 AM PST US
    From: "ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>
    Subject: Re: Europa Cowl Resin
    The pale green colour gives away that the resin is probably Class 2 fire retardant (polyester), which is what I have believed it to be, having been told that by the company that made the Classic cowls; others might be different. It might also be vinyl-ester, but I doubt it and this resin is now in any case very difficult to track down in Class 2 quality (Dow used to supply it, but don't appear to any more).Standard Class 2 polyester can be post cured to a Tg of up to 80C, which is more than enough for cowls (other than close to inappropriately fitted/protected manifolds, which can/should be dealt with by other means). There would be other issues under the cowls at 80C to worry about! Duncan McF. ----Original Message---- From: kingsnjan@westnet.com.au Subj: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa Cowl Resin Thank you Pete and Frank and yes Frank, I do have the Classic cowls. Strangely, the inside of my cowls are still a nice pale green colour with no yellowing like other parts of the airframe. I have always been of the opinion they might have some phenolic base in them and when I have cut them, I reckon it smelt very much like polyester. Thanks again men . . . . onwards and hopefully Upwards! Kingsley


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:12:07 AM PST US
    From: Alan Twigg <alan.twigg775@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Installation of pre-fabricated wing root fairings
    Tony, the XS manual covers it, I used this for my Mororglider fairings. Scuff and glue useing Redux bulked with Flox. Alan Twigg Motorglider kit 463 Painted and on final assembly. Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Oct 2017, at 08:37, tonyvaccarella <tony@weimagine.com.au> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > Im getting ready to install my pre-fabricated wing root fairings for my Classic Wing. The Classic builders manual describes how to construct these fairings from scratch but Im having problems finding how I should install these pre-made fairings. > > My initial thought was to scuff the fairing and the wing root where they meet and use flox to bond them and then add two layers of BID to the outside. But rather than guessing at this, or trying to reinvent the wheel - so to speak, Im wondering what other members of this forum have done to install these? > > Attached is a picture of the port-side fairing. > > Thanks for your help... > > Cheers > Tony Vaccarella > VH-VOW > Sydney > Australia > > -------- > Tony Vaccarella > Mascot NSW 2020 > Sydney Australia > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473923#473923 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_root_fairing_727.jpg > > > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 03:28:50 AM PST US
    From: "ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>
    Subject: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
    Maybe the attached would qualify as a fence.I made these years ago but never got around to fitting or flying them, not believing that three 1/8" lap hinge plates edge-on to the wind would create more drag than the greatly additional skin and frontal areas of the fairing (although it has better form, with prospect of pressure recovery).Maybe one day! Duncan McF. ----Original Message---- From: ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only Can't find anything in the NACA library, except:http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1955/naca-rm-a55c30a.pdfwhich applies to swept wings.Logically, there may be an effect in reducing the spanwise flow over the outboard section of the (fowler) flap, when the flap is deployed. But drag in that configuration is a definite advantage in getting the a/c on the ground. Might be worth exploring to see if there is any detectable decrease in stall speed? Duncan McF. ----Original Message---- From: craigb@onthenet.com.au Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only While on the subject of the outer flap hinge, given its location, my thoughts were it might be advantageous to turn that hinge faring into a "fence" to help reduce spanwise flow. What say yee gentlemen to that. Or is it a lot of work for no real gain Regards Craig Kit 577, final prep before paint -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of zwakie Sent: Saturday, 14 October 2017 7:01 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only jonathanmilbank wrote: > I particularly like this quote from Bud: "The flap brackets (especially the outers) are a huge drag source. So is the gear. Gear drag is interesting. The legs and brake callipers actually produce more drag than the tyres and wheels." Exactly the two things I thought would be of interest to you and why I posted the link (pure luck that I had read this article again earlier this week, otherwise I would not have thought of it [Wink] ) -------- Marcel Zwakenberg XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473511#473511 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:38:53 AM PST US
    From: "ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>
    Subject: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
    Maybe the attached would qualify as a fence.I made these years ago but never got around to fitting or flying them, not believing that three 1/8" flap hinge plates edge-on to the wind would create more drag than the greatly additional skin and frontal areas of the fairing (although it has better form, with prospect of pressure recovery).Maybe one day! Duncan McF. ----Original Message---- From: ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only Can't find anything in the NACA library, except:http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1955/naca-rm-a55c30a.pdfwhich applies to swept wings.Logically, there may be an effect in reducing the spanwise flow over the outboard section of the (fowler) flap, when the flap is deployed. But drag in that configuration is a definite advantage in getting the a/c on the ground. Might be worth exploring to see if there is any detectable decrease in stall speed? Duncan McF. ----Original Message---- From: craigb@onthenet.com.au Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only While on the subject of the outer flap hinge, given its location, my thoughts were it might be advantageous to turn that hinge faring into a "fence" to help reduce spanwise flow. What say yee gentlemen to that. Or is it a lot of work for no real gain Regards Craig Kit 577, final prep before paint -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of zwakie Sent: Saturday, 14 October 2017 7:01 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only jonathanmilbank wrote: > I particularly like this quote from Bud: "The flap brackets (especially the outers) are a huge drag source. So is the gear. Gear drag is interesting. The legs and brake callipers actually produce more drag than the tyres and wheels." Exactly the two things I thought would be of interest to you and why I posted the link (pure luck that I had read this article again earlier this week, otherwise I would not have thought of it [Wink] ) -------- Marcel Zwakenberg XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473511#473511 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com


    Message 8


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    Time: 03:48:43 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Flaps
    From: "Nigel Graham" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
    Hi Rod, These were made in the US by Motion Systems in NJ. Part number on the originals was 73633 but the closest I can find is this: http://www.actuator.com/products/product/linear-actuator-85615-85616/ If you order one from them - don't mention the intended use! Nigel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473929#473929


    Message 9


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    Time: 04:23:33 AM PST US
    From: "ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>
    Subject: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
    Maybe the attached would qualify as a fence.I made these years ago but never got around to fitting or flying them, not believing that three 1/8" flap hinge plates edge-on to the wind would create more drag than the greatly additional skin and frontal areas of the fairing (although it has better form, with prospect of pressure recovery).Maybe one day! Duncan McF. ----Original Message---- From: ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only Can't find anything in the NACA library, except:http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1955/naca-rm-a55c30a.pdfwhich applies to swept wings.Logically, there may be an effect in reducing the spanwise flow over the outboard section of the (fowler) flap, when the flap is deployed. But drag in that configuration is a definite advantage in getting the a/c on the ground. Might be worth exploring to see if there is any detectable decrease in stall speed? Duncan McF. ----Original Message---- From: craigb@onthenet.com.au Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only While on the subject of the outer flap hinge, given its location, my thoughts were it might be advantageous to turn that hinge faring into a "fence" to help reduce spanwise flow. What say yee gentlemen to that. Or is it a lot of work for no real gain Regards Craig Kit 577, final prep before paint -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of zwakie Sent: Saturday, 14 October 2017 7:01 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only jonathanmilbank wrote: > I particularly like this quote from Bud: "The flap brackets (especially the outers) are a huge drag source. So is the gear. Gear drag is interesting. The legs and brake callipers actually produce more drag than the tyres and wheels." Exactly the two things I thought would be of interest to you and why I posted the link (pure luck that I had read this article again earlier this week, otherwise I would not have thought of it [Wink] ) -------- Marcel Zwakenberg XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473511#473511 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:13:48 PM PST US
    From: William Bliss <william@wbliss.co.uk>
    Subject: Removable Instrument Panel mod 63
    Hello All Does anyone have any tips, experience etc of retrofitting the mod 63 instrument panel cut out? I cannot even find pictures of the blanks that Europa sell. Mine are steam gauges which I do not plan to change. I'm about to remove the panel and fit a Trig Radio and Transponder into G-WUFF so thought now is a good time for the mod. Thanks William


    Message 11


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    Time: 04:44:32 PM PST US
    From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    Subject: Re: Europa Cowl Resin
    > On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:07 AM, Brian Davies <brian.davies44@gmail.com> wrote: > > My understanding is that it is perfectly acceptable, and maybe even > desirable, to use epoxy resin on cured polyester surfaces. Thank you Brianthat=99s a relief in that I=99d added epoxied mods to my doorswhich seem to be holding up wellF.


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:21:25 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Installation of pre-fabricated wing root fairings
    From: "tonyvaccarella" <tony@weimagine.com.au>
    Thank you Alan, I never thought to look at the Motor Glider manual. Best regards, Tony -------- Tony Vaccarella Mascot NSW 2020 Sydney Australia Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473954#473954


    Message 13


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    Time: 11:32:15 PM PST US
    From: "Kingsley Hurst" <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au>
    Subject: Re: Europa Cowl Resin
    Many thanks Nigel and Duncan. You have confirmed my suspicions and enlightened me which by the way, is not hard to do! Thanks again men Kingsley do not archive




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