Europa-List Digest Archive

Wed 11/01/17


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:32 AM - PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List 2017 Fund Raiser During November! (Matt Dralle)
     1. 01:27 AM - Re: Nav Lights (John Wighton)
     2. 02:24 AM - Re: Re: Nav Lights (David Watts)
     3. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: ELT (Raimo Toivio)
     4. 08:30 AM - Re: ELT (italianjon)
     5. 08:31 AM - Ready to cut tailpane trim tabs (n7188u)
     6. 11:31 AM - Re: Re: ELT (Raimo Toivio)
     7. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: ELT (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
     8. 02:11 PM - Re: Nav Lights (Matt Dovey)
     9. 02:11 PM - Re: Re: ELT (Raimo Toivio)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 12:32:29 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List 2017 Fund Raiser During
    November! Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members (you) that these Matronics Lists are possible. You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. YOUR personal Contribution counts! This year we have a really HUGE and TERRIFIC line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. In fact, there are 9 great gifts to choose from! There's something for everyone, to be sure. Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including using a Credit Card, PayPal, or by Personal Check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure web site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot


    Message 1


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    Time: 01:27:18 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Nav Lights
    From: "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net>
    Matt, If yours is a classic surely the skins are laid up onto the foam cores? I believe a good solution is to use a hole cutting tool mounted onto a long straight tube (approx. 3/4in dia.). The hole should be on the camber line (approx. wing bending neutral axis). Cables can be pulled through thereafter and the ends sealed once all the functional checks are complete. My XS (moulded skin, hollow wings) has wing nav/strobe cables retro fitted in this way (albeit the boring only is needed at the root and intermediate rib). Mine had some 2 core cables installed at build but 5 core is needed for the nav/strobe combination units, so had to be changed. Use shielded cable and connectors at the wing root to enable disassembly. Regards JW -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474090#474090


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:24:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Nav Lights
    From: David Watts <dg.watts@talktalk.net>
    You only need 2 core cable for the LED Nav Strobes available from The Light Aeroplane Company. I fitted them in place of my Nav lights recently and they are great. Dave Watts G-BXDY > On 1 Nov 2017, at 08:26, John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote: > > > Matt, > > If yours is a classic surely the skins are laid up onto the foam cores? > > I believe a good solution is to use a hole cutting tool mounted onto a long straight tube (approx. 3/4in dia.). The hole should be on the camber line (approx. wing bending neutral axis). Cables can be pulled through thereafter and the ends sealed once all the functional checks are complete. > > My XS (moulded skin, hollow wings) has wing nav/strobe cables retro fitted in this way (albeit the boring only is needed at the root and intermediate rib). Mine had some 2 core cables installed at build but 5 core is needed for the nav/strobe combination units, so had to be changed. > > Use shielded cable and connectors at the wing root to enable disassembly. > > Regards > JW > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474090#474090 > > > > > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:06:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: ELT
    From: Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Ivor, cost for PLB is really marginal as well as its weight (take same weight away from you by leaving every-week-hamburger off so no weight penalty and you save money for PLB in a year). Notice you may carry PLB always omboard - could be a life saver when walking from the pub home... Cheers, Raimo Ivor kirjoitti 25.10.2017 klo 14:47: > > > raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi wrote: >> Hello Ivor, >> how about have them both? Cheers, Raimo Toivio > > > Hi Raimo > absolutely no problem having both except cost and additional weight, > If the regulations allow an PLB instead of an ELT that's the way i would go. > > Cheers > > Ivor > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473854#473854 > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:30:51 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: ELT
    From: "italianjon" <jon.catilli@gmail.com>
    Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry. For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both. With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency. I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:31:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Ready to cut tailpane trim tabs
    From: "n7188u" <chmgarb@gmail.com>
    Dear Europa Forum members, I am getting ready to cut the trim tabs in the tailplane and have a quick question: Before applying the skin layup I marked lines on the foam surface of where the internal foam cutout that forms the tab leading edge and stab rear closeout is. This gives me a reference of where the cut will be (or where not to cut). So I measured and marked the tab dimensions per the manual and it looks like the top skin cut will give me a 20mm flange on the stab side and 25mm on the tab side to attach the hinges (minus the inside radius for the glass corner of course). Does that sound about right? Should I bias the cut a little toward the tab as indicated in the manual to make it more equal on both sides? Looks like 20mm maybe ok but a bit tight for the hinge to fit but the 25mm sounds right. These hinges are a little over 18mm thick so 20mm doesn't leave much for the radius and extra glass layers for the hinges. Thanks, Chris Martin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474098#474098


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:31:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: ELT
    From: Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Hi Jon, I do agree. One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically after your critical impact. Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation (when trying to survive out from your disaster). Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If shit happens then, PLB is useless! PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote (thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]). I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands. Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and thats why I have no Turbo), but in the case /of silence/ with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory. So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds... (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour). I would like to say: ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra... _(isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like that, should be vice versa...)_ Cheers, Raimo Finland OH-XRT The fastest Europa ever build (and only 4-seater) allekirjoitus <mailto:info@rwm.fi> italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30: > > Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry. > > For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both. > > With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency. > > I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097 > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:00:26 PM PST US
    From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
    Subject: Re: ELT
    Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits. Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website in the 'Flying' section. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote: > Hi Jon, > > I do agree. > > One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically after your critical impact. > > Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation > > (when trying to survive out from your disaster). > > Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If shit happens then, PLB is useless! > > PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote > > (thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]). > > I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands. > > Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and thats why I have no Turbo), > > but in the case _of silence_ with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory. > > So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds... > > (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour). > > I would like to say: > > ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra... > > (isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like that, should be vice versa...) Cheers, > Raimo > Finland > OH-XRT > The fastest Europa ever build > (and only 4-seater) > > italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30: > >> >> Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry. >> >> For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both. >> >> With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency. >> >> I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated. >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097 [1] Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097


    Message 8


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    Time: 02:11:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Nav Lights
    From: "Matt Dovey" <mattdovey@hotmail.co.uk>
    Thanks for the reply guys. I have thought about running the wiring through the tip then along the rear spar, in front of the flying controls like David suggested. The pitot/static lines have been run this way. I was just wondering how everyone else had done it. There is no point reinventing the wheel. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474111#474111


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:11:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: ELT
    From: Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Dear David, _you are right as usually, _but however, think about accident in the remote place (and you have not launched your PLB), ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the world. Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think. Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!! (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere). For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip here with my monowheel. To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters. They just look, maybe!!! Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life! In that case, ELT were superb. So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (AirMaster). David, Im pretty sure You get it! Go on! I know you can have your burst! _Or, maybe you need a real FinnishSauna to get out your real Europa Mind?_ *** About me /my status: - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 * - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one year ago - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again. - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here. David, _pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away! _Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so. __ Raimo OH-XRT Finland <mailto:info@rwm.fi> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58: > > Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes > are sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your > fascinating flying exploits. > > Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this > context I would take a slightly different approach. I would say there > are two sorts of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you > walk away from it and don't need much in the way of help - or if you > do then you are in a state to work your mobile, or your PLB assuming > you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean or in a remote > part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort of > typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and > very few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% > of us (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, > entirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that > possibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to > get help more quickly after the event. There are suggestions of how > you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website in the > 'Flying' section. > > Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ > > On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote: > >> Hi Jon, >> >> I do agree. >> >> One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work >> automatically after your critical impact. >> >> Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on >> your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or >> less panic situation >> >> (when trying to survive out from your disaster). >> >> Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If shit >> happens then, PLB is useless! >> >> PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up >> altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote >> >> (thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty >> [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]). >> >> I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between >> Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without >> islands. >> >> Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 >> (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and thats why I have >> no Turbo), >> >> but in the case /of silence/ with my best glide ratio (1:17, w >> featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically >> about 35 km in theory. >> >> So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy to >> monitor your engine and listen strange sounds... >> >> (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music >> through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour). >> >> I would like to say: >> >> ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra... >> >> (isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking >> things like that, should be vice versa...) >> >> Cheers, >> Raimo >> Finland >> OH-XRT >> The fastest Europa ever build >> (and only 4-seater) >> >> italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30: >>> >>> Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry. >>> >>> For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both. >>> >>> With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency. >>> >>> I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>




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