Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:11 AM - Re: Re: ELT (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
2. 02:44 AM - Re: Re: ELT (ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net)
3. 03:03 AM - Re: Re: ELT (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
4. 04:14 AM - Re: Re: ELT (Raimo Toivio)
5. 05:23 AM - Re: Re: Nav Lights (Christoph Both)
6. 06:16 AM - Re: Nav Lights (h&jeuropa)
7. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: Nav Lights (David Watts)
8. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: ELT (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
9. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: ELT (Paul Mansfield)
10. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: ELT (Pete)
11. 03:31 PM - My fav europa flight vid to watch.... (Pete)
Message 1
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Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged
spaces in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and
unlandable places in the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish
islands), but it doesn't alter the point that there are few landings
where you are not either dead or able to use a PLB. Two or three hundred
euros invested in a Smartass is much more likely to save your life than
a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to a PLB.
Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018.
Regards, David
PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of
argument, but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland
and 660nm top to bottom of UK!
On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> Dear David, you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the
remote place (and you have not launched your PLB),
> ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is
not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the
world.
>
> Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.
>
> Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!
>
> (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).
>
> For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip here
with my monowheel.
> To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters.
They just look, maybe!!!
> Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life!
In that case, ELT were superb.
>
> So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (AirMaster).
>
> David, Im pretty sure You get it!
>
> Go on! I know you can have your burst!
>
> Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?
>
> ***
> About me /my status:
>
> - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
> - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one year
ago
> - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again.
> - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.
>
> David,
> pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!
>
> Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.
>
> Raimo
> OH-XRT
> Finland
>
> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
>
> Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted
and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits.
>
> Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would
take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical'
- firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need
much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile,
or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean
or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort
of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very
few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us (i.e.
GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My
plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention
is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are
suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website
in the 'Flying' section.
>
> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
> On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> I do agree.
>
> One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically
after your critical impact.
>
> Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB
or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation
>
> (when trying to survive out from your disaster).
>
> Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If shit happens then,
PLB is useless!
>
> PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude,
or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
>
> (thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves
will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
>
> I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden.
That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
>
> Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female
ATC love my request to use it and thats why I have no Turbo),
>
> but in the case _of silence_ with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb
AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
>
> So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy to monitor your
engine and listen strange sounds...
>
> (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through
my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
>
> I would like to say:
>
> ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
>
> (isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like
that, should be vice versa...) Cheers,
> Raimo
> Finland
> OH-XRT
> The fastest Europa ever build
> (and only 4-seater)
>
> italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
>
>
> Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for
a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source,
someone who is involved in the SAR industry.
>
> For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.
>
> With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have
all information readily available through the registration authorities. On
a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.
>
> I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the
ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that
was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional
people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the
PLB is activated.
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097 [1]
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097
Message 2
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Was there any resolution as to why, after G-BYSA 'landed' in the North Sea
coast and set-off its PLB, nobody ever came?I appreciate that most alerts (
particularly in a marine environment) are false alarms, but are alerts scre
ened in this way?
Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
Subj: Re: Europa-List: Re: ELT
Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged spa
ces in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable pla
ces in the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it do
esn't alter the point that there are few landings where you are not either
dead or able to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartas
s is much more likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an E
LT in addition to a PLB.
Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018. R
egards, David
PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of argume
nt, but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660n
m top to bottom of UK!
On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
Dear David,
you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the remote p
lace (and you have not launched your PLB),
ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that i
t is not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places i
n the world.
Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.
Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!
(which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).
For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private stri
p here with my monowheel.
To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meter
s. They just look, maybe!!!
Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my lif
e! In that case, ELT were superb.
So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (Ai
rMaster).
David, I=C2=B4m pretty sure You get it!
Go on! I know you can have your burst!
Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?
***
About me /my status:
- my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
- my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one
year ago
- my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back agai
n.
- my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.
David,
pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!
Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.
Raimo
OH-XRT
Finland
davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are so
rted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flyi
ng exploits.
Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I
would take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts o
f 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and
don't need much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state t
o work your mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion
either in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of
that!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not
walk away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT.
Sadly some 2% of us (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accide
nts, entirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that poss
ibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to get help mo
re quickly after the event. There are suggestions of how you can address th
is issue on the (beautiful new) club website in the 'Flying' section.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
Hi Jon,
I do agree.
One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automati
cally after your critical impact.
It=C2=B4s easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on y
our PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic
situation
(when trying to survive out from your disaster).
What=C2=B4s a typical accident? It=C2=B4s during take off or landing. If sh
it happens then, PLB is useless!
PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitud
e, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
(that=C2=B4s potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty
[wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and
Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish fem
ale ATC love my request to use it and that=C2=B4s why I have no Turbo),
but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VS
uperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when it=C2=B4s easy to mo
nitor your engine and listen strange sounds...
(in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music throu
gh my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
I would like to say:
ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
(isn=C2=B4t it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking
things like that, should be vice versa...)
Cheers,
Raimo
Finland
OH-XRT
The fastest Europa ever build
(and only 4-seater)
italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating
for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliab
le source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry.
For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.
With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they
have all information readily available through the registration authorities
. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.
I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On
the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, a
nd that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of
three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the e
vent that the PLB is activated.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097
Message 3
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Duncan, Bob will no doubt give you chapter and verse if he is not too
busy, but my understanding is that he was tucked into a small recess at
the bottom of high, near vertical cliff, which stopped mobile phone,
radio & PLB 121.5 access and degraded GPS accuracy. A helicopter was
sent out but only went along the land side of the coastline and failed
to see him. They might well have been handicapped by the plane having
taken off from an unmanned airfield so there was no traceable record of
him having gone or where he might be going.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-11-02 09:42, ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net wrote:
> Was there any resolution as to why, after G-BYSA 'landed' in the North Sea coast
and set-off its PLB, nobody ever came?
> I appreciate that most alerts (particularly in a marine environment) are false
alarms, but are alerts screened in this way?
>
> Duncan McF.
> ----Original Message----
> From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
> Date: 02/11/2017 09:09
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subj: Re: Europa-List: Re: ELT
>
> Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged spaces
in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable places in
the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it doesn't alter
the point that there are few landings where you are not either dead or able
to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass is much more
likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to
a PLB.
>
> Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018. Regards,
David
>
> PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of argument,
but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top
to bottom of UK!
>
> On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Dear David, you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the
remote place (and you have not launched your PLB),
> ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is
not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the
world.
>
> Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.
>
> Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!
>
> (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).
>
> For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip here
with my monowheel.
> To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters.
They just look, maybe!!!
> Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life!
In that case, ELT were superb.
>
> So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (AirMaster).
>
> David, Im pretty sure You get it!
>
> Go on! I know you can have your burst!
>
> Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?
>
> ***
> About me /my status:
>
> - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
> - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one year
ago
> - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again.
> - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.
>
> David,
> pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!
>
> Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.
>
> Raimo
> OH-XRT
> Finland
>
> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
>
> Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted
and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits.
>
> Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would
take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical'
- firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need
much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile,
or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean
or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort
of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very
few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us (i.e.
GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My
plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention
is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are
suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website
in the 'Flying' section.
>
> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
> On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> I do agree.
>
> One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically
after your critical impact.
>
> Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB
or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation
>
> (when trying to survive out from your disaster).
>
> Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If shit happens then,
PLB is useless!
>
> PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude,
or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
>
> (thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves
will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
>
> I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden.
That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
>
> Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female
ATC love my request to use it and thats why I have no Turbo),
>
> but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb
AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
>
> So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy to monitor your
engine and listen strange sounds...
>
> (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through
my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
>
> I would like to say:
>
> ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
>
> (isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like
that, should be vice versa...) Cheers,
> Raimo
> Finland
> OH-XRT
> The fastest Europa ever build
> (and only 4-seater)
>
> italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
>
>
> Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for
a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source,
someone who is involved in the SAR industry.
>
> For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.
>
> With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have
all information readily available through the registration authorities. On
a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.
>
> I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the
ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that
was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional
people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the
PLB is activated.
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097 [1]
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097
Message 4
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Hi David,
this is fun.
ELT is an interesting question.
Maybe there are few landings where you are not either dead or able to
use a PLB in UK.
But in Finland, by statistically, most landings are succesfull ie you
are alive and you are able to use your PLB if you like so.
I assume we are talking about forced landings.
Personally I would launch my PLB when airborne and well before
contacting the earth.
Smart ass is a nice gizmo, but do we really need it (if we are real Pilots)?
If it really were so lifesaver, I assume it would be mandatory in every ac.
Should you consider also a stick shaker?
Personally I do like my Angle of Attack -system
(you know its an essential equipment if you wanna land your fighter to
the deck of your aircraft carrier...).
Actually thats the only way to really know whats happening right now
and how far or how close you are from stalling situation.
Angle of Attack is everything. Speed is nothing, as well as weight,
temp, air density or your very personal size. Just AofA!
Also, my Europas original EA stall warner (audio-visual /horn and a
giant hight bright blue led in the field of view) works also satisfactorily.
However, I have seen it only when Im stalling by purpose and every time
just before touch down.
BTW I have always used 70 knots during the final until on the ground effect.
Also, when landing to my strip 12/30, total lenght 300 metres.
David, 2018 is coming soon. I will start to prepare my lakeside Sauna
for you.
Yes, we should really get into a "Mines bigger than yours sort of
argument".
Thats easier to verify in sauna if I call couple of Ladies to join us.
Or should you bring one for you from UK?
I have discussed this thing many times with girls.
Maybe yours is a little longer than mine (40 mn means 6%).
Then you count UK not England and in that case I could count
Sweden-Finland...
However, girls arguments that the lenght is nothing - only TTS (The
Total Size) matters!
Your area /size (UK) is 242.000 km (England only 130.000 km).
My area /size (Finland) is 338.000 km.
So, mine issignificantly larger (40%).
So far, most girls have been here with me happy.
Your total population is about 65.000.000 persons and we have 5.500.000.
That means you David have 3.700 m of UK and I have 61.500 m of Finland.
That means mine is actually almost 17 times bigger than yours.
This is also argument for ELT & PLB; it is 17 times more valuable here
than in UK an average.
I am pretty sure you do agree this.
This land is so atractive that little Russians have tried to get it many
times,
but we have pushed them back quite easily every time and will do it
again if necessary.
Thats easy because Finnish Airforce have had and have the most
succesfull pilots in the world
(pls read the statistics around WWII).
"So few have not been ever so thankful to so few"
I hardly can wait your comments and also sauna test match FIN-UK with girls.
Cheers,
Raimo
Finland
OH-XRT
PS: I checked my Europas logbook; actually I have logged 600 flight
hours and 800 landings since 2007
(this year unfortunately none w RT, but 50 hours by C172 OH-CVK and
LamcoCub OH-U666 + one hour in a hot Air Balloon "Finland 100-years"
OH-FIN")
allekirjoitus
<mailto:info@rwm.fi>
davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 2.11.2017 klo 11:09:
>
> Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and
> rugged spaces in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and
> unlandable places in the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish
> islands), but it doesn't alter the point that there are few landings
> where you are not either dead or able to use a PLB. Two or three
> hundred euros invested in a Smartass is much more likely to save your
> life than a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to a PLB.
>
> Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in
> 2018. Regards, David
>
> PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of
> argument, but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of
> Finland and 660nm top to bottom of UK!
>
> On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
>> Dear David,
>>
>> you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the
>> remote place (and you have not launched your PLB),
>> ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand
>> that it is not so easy to you to understand there are really
>> unpopulated places in the world.
>>
>> Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.
>>
>> Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!
>>
>> (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).
>>
>> For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private
>> strip here with my monowheel.
>> To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of
>> meters. They just look, maybe!!!
>> Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe
>> my life! In that case, ELT were superb.
>>
>> So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one
>> prop (AirMaster).
>>
>> David, Im pretty sure You get it!
>>
>> Go on! I know you can have your burst!
>>
>> Or, maybe you need a real FinnishSauna to get out your real Europa Mind?
>>
>> ***
>> About me /my status:
>>
>> - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
>> - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my
>> crash one year ago
>> - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back
>> again.
>> - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.
>>
>> David,
>> pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!
>>
>> Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.
>>
>> Raimo
>> OH-XRT
>> Finland
>>
>> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
>>>
>>> Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes
>>> are sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your
>>> fascinating flying exploits.
>>>
>>> Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this
>>> context I would take a slightly different approach. I would say
>>> there are two sorts of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident
>>> where you walk away from it and don't need much in the way of help -
>>> or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile, or your
>>> PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean
>>> or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The
>>> other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk
>>> away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT.
>>> Sadly some 2% of us (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin
>>> accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to
>>> address that possibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer,
>>> not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are
>>> suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new)
>>> club website in the 'Flying' section.
>>>
>>> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>>>
>>> On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jon,
>>>
>>> I do agree.
>>>
>>> One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should
>>> work automatically after your critical impact.
>>>
>>> Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to
>>> switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your
>>> possible more or less panic situation
>>>
>>> (when trying to survive out from your disaster).
>>>
>>> Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If
>>> shit happens then, PLB is useless!
>>>
>>> PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high
>>> up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the
>>> remote
>>>
>>> (thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically
>>> empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
>>>
>>> I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between
>>> Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater
>>> without islands.
>>>
>>> Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69
>>> (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and thats why I
>>> have no Turbo),
>>>
>>> but in the case /of silence/ with my best glide ratio (1:17, w
>>> featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say
>>> practically about 35 km in theory.
>>>
>>> So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy
>>> to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds...
>>>
>>> (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi
>>> music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
>>>
>>> I would like to say:
>>>
>>> ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
>>>
>>> (isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are
>>> thinking things like that, should be vice versa...)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Raimo
>>> Finland
>>> OH-XRT
>>> The fastest Europa ever build
>>> (and only 4-seater)
>>>
>>> italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
>>>
>>>
>>> Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating
for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable
source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry.
>>>
>>> For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.
>>>
>>> With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate,
as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities.
On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.
>>>
>>> I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms.
On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details,
and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of
three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event
that the PLB is activated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 5
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Hello Dave,
Do you have a link to the Light Aeroplane Company nav lights?
Thanks,
Christoph
#223 Europa
Wolfville, NS, Canada
On 2017-11-02, 07:41, "owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of David
Watts" <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of dg.watts@talktalk.net>
wrote:
You only need 2 core cable for the LED Nav Strobes available from The Light
Aeroplane Company.
I fitted them in place of my Nav lights recently and they are great.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY
> On 1 Nov 2017, at 08:26, John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote:
>
>
> Matt,
>
> If yours is a classic surely the skins are laid up onto the foam cores?
>
> I believe a good solution is to use a hole cutting tool mounted onto a long
straight tube (approx. 3/4in dia.). The hole should be on the camber line
(approx. wing bending neutral axis). Cables can be pulled through thereafter
and the ends sealed once all the functional checks are complete.
>
> My XS (moulded skin, hollow wings) has wing nav/strobe cables retro fitted
in this way (albeit the boring only is needed at the root and intermediate rib).
Mine had some 2 core cables installed at build but 5 core is needed for the
nav/strobe combination units, so had to be changed.
>
> Use shielded cable and connectors at the wing root to enable disassembly.
>
> Regards
> JW
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474090#474090
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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This thread describes how Creighton Smith and Bud Yerly fitted lights to Creighton's
classic wings.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16766473&highlight=lights
Jim Butcher
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474127#474127
Message 7
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Christoph
TLAC Strobes are at:-
http://www.g-tlac.com/Documents/Strobes%20and%20beacons%2022%208%2016.pdf
Dave Watts
> On 2 Nov 2017, at 12:21, Christoph Both <christoph.both@acadiau.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Dave,
> Do you have a link to the Light Aeroplane Company nav lights?
> Thanks,
> Christoph
> #223 Europa
> Wolfville, NS, Canada
>
>
> On 2017-11-02, 07:41, "owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of David
Watts" <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of dg.watts@talktalk.net>
wrote:
>
>
> You only need 2 core cable for the LED Nav Strobes available from The Light
Aeroplane Company.
> I fitted them in place of my Nav lights recently and they are great.
>
> Dave Watts
> G-BXDY
>
>> On 1 Nov 2017, at 08:26, John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> If yours is a classic surely the skins are laid up onto the foam cores?
>>
>> I believe a good solution is to use a hole cutting tool mounted onto a long
straight tube (approx. 3/4in dia.). The hole should be on the camber line (approx.
wing bending neutral axis). Cables can be pulled through thereafter and
the ends sealed once all the functional checks are complete.
>>
>> My XS (moulded skin, hollow wings) has wing nav/strobe cables retro fitted in
this way (albeit the boring only is needed at the root and intermediate rib).
Mine had some 2 core cables installed at build but 5 core is needed for the
nav/strobe combination units, so had to be changed.
>>
>> Use shielded cable and connectors at the wing root to enable disassembly.
>>
>> Regards
>> JW
>>
>> --------
>> John Wighton
>> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474090#474090
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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Raimo, I like the Smartass because it is simple, cheap and very
effective, but any device giving warnin of impending stall coming at you
through you headset in a way you cannot ignore is good. Certainly it
should be related to angle of attack rather than raw speed, but Smartass
is g compensated so that its trigger levels are effectively the same as
if measuring AOA, since there is a precise mathematical relationship
between air speed, g forces and AOA. The AOA systems I have come across
cost the wrong side of 1000 and are complex to fit, whilst Smartass
costs 200 and is dead simple to fit. It also for good measure reminds
you to put the gear down!. The standard Europa stall warner with a
buzzer in the head rest is in my experience next to useless and has no
doubt been wingeing almost inaudibly (to the ageing ear equipped with
the latest ANR headsets) in all the (significant number) of Europa stall
spin accidents.
How many fatal accidents are you aware of where an ELT saved the day?
That is where the pilot survive the landing was unable to summon help
and died before help arrived but could have been saved had he been found
within a few hours. No doubt there are some, but I cannot recall any.
Regards, David
On 2017-11-02 11:12, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> this is fun.
>
> ELT is an interesting question. Maybe there are few landings where you are not
either dead or able to use a PLB in UK.
> But in Finland, by statistically, most landings are succesfull ie you are alive
and you are able to use your PLB if you like so.
> I assume we are talking about forced landings.
> Personally I would launch my PLB when airborne and well before contacting the
earth.
>
> Smart ass is a nice gizmo, but do we really need it (if we are real Pilots)?
> If it really were so lifesaver, I assume it would be mandatory in every ac.
> Should you consider also a stick shaker?
> Personally I do like my Angle of Attack -system
> (you know its an essential equipment if you wanna land your fighter to the deck
of your aircraft carrier...).
> Actually thats the only way to really know whats happening right now and how
far or how close you are from stalling situation.
> Angle of Attack is everything. Speed is nothing, as well as weight, temp, air
density or your very personal size. Just AofA!
>
> Also, my Europas original EA stall warner (audio-visual /horn and a giant hight
bright blue led in the field of view) works also satisfactorily.
> However, I have seen it only when Im stalling by purpose and every time just
before touch down.
> BTW I have always used 70 knots during the final until on the ground effect.
> Also, when landing to my strip 12/30, total lenght 300 metres.
>
> David, 2018 is coming soon. I will start to prepare my lakeside Sauna for you.
> Yes, we should really get into a "Mines bigger than yours sort of argument".
> Thats easier to verify in sauna if I call couple of Ladies to join us.
> Or should you bring one for you from UK?
>
> I have discussed this thing many times with girls.
> Maybe yours is a little longer than mine (40 mn means 6%).
> Then you count UK not England and in that case I could count Sweden-Finland...
> However, girls arguments that the lenght is nothing - only TTS (The Total Size)
matters!
>
> Your area /size (UK) is 242.000 km (England only 130.000 km).
> My area /size (Finland) is 338.000 km.
> So, mine is significantly larger (40%).
> So far, most girls have been here with me happy.
>
> Your total population is about 65.000.000 persons and we have 5.500.000.
> That means you David have 3.700 m of UK and I have 61.500 m of Finland.
> That means mine is actually almost 17 times bigger than yours.
>
> This is also argument for ELT & PLB; it is 17 times more valuable here than in
UK an average.
> I am pretty sure you do agree this.
>
> This land is so atractive that little Russians have tried to get it many times,
> but we have pushed them back quite easily every time and will do it again if
necessary.
> Thats easy because Finnish Airforce have had and have the most succesfull pilots
in the world
> (pls read the statistics around WWII).
>
> "So few have not been ever so thankful to so few"
>
> I hardly can wait your comments and also sauna test match FIN-UK with girls.
>
> Cheers,
> Raimo
> Finland
> OH-XRT
>
> PS: I checked my Europas logbook; actually I have logged 600 flight hours and
800 landings since 2007
> (this year unfortunately none w RT, but 50 hours by C172 OH-CVK and LamcoCub
OH-U666 + one hour in a hot Air Balloon "Finland 100-years" OH-FIN")
>
> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 2.11.2017 klo 11:09:
>
> Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged spaces
in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable places in
the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it doesn't alter
the point that there are few landings where you are not either dead or able
to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass is much more
likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to
a PLB.
>
> Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018. Regards,
David
>
> PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of argument,
but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top
to bottom of UK!
>
> On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Dear David, you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the
remote place (and you have not launched your PLB),
> ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is
not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the
world.
>
> Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.
>
> Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!
>
> (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).
>
> For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip here
with my monowheel.
> To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters.
They just look, maybe!!!
> Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life!
In that case, ELT were superb.
>
> So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (AirMaster).
>
> David, Im pretty sure You get it!
>
> Go on! I know you can have your burst!
>
> Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?
>
> ***
> About me /my status:
>
> - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
> - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one year
ago
> - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again.
> - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.
>
> David,
> pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!
>
> Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.
>
> Raimo
> OH-XRT
> Finland
>
> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
>
> Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted
and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits.
>
> Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would
take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical'
- firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need
much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile,
or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean
or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort
of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very
few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us (i.e.
GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My
plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention
is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are
suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website
in the 'Flying' section.
>
> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
> On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> I do agree.
>
> One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically
after your critical impact.
>
> Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB
or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation
>
> (when trying to survive out from your disaster).
>
> Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If shit happens then,
PLB is useless!
>
> PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude,
or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
>
> (thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves
will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
>
> I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden.
That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
>
> Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female
ATC love my request to use it and thats why I have no Turbo),
>
> but in the case _of silence_ with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb
AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
>
> So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy to monitor your
engine and listen strange sounds...
>
> (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through
my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
>
> I would like to say:
>
> ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
>
> (isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like
that, should be vice versa...) Cheers,
> Raimo
> Finland
> OH-XRT
> The fastest Europa ever build
> (and only 4-seater)
>
> italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
>
>
> Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for
a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source,
someone who is involved in the SAR industry.
>
> For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.
>
> With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have
all information readily available through the registration authorities. On
a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.
>
> I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the
ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that
was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional
people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the
PLB is activated.
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097 [1]
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097
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I appreciate my SmartAss....very effective, and did indeed nag me when i was
once distracted (at altitude though) in my little underpowered HB, to my pl
easant surprise :-)
> On Nov 2, 2017, at 11:44 AM, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> Raimo, I like the Smartass because it is simple, cheap and very effective,
but any device giving warnin of impending stall coming at you through you h
eadset in a way you cannot ignore is good. Certainly it should be related to
angle of attack rather than raw speed, but Smartass is g compensated so tha
t its trigger levels are effectively the same as if measuring AOA, since the
re is a precise mathematical relationship between air speed, g forces and AO
A. The AOA systems I have come across cost the wrong side of =C2=A31000 and a
re complex to fit, whilst Smartass costs =C2=A3200 and is dead simple to fit
. It also for good measure reminds you to put the gear down!. The standard E
uropa stall warner with a buzzer in the head rest is in my experience next t
o useless and has no doubt been wingeing almost inaudibly (to the ageing ear
equipped with the latest ANR headsets) in all the (significant number) of E
uropa stall spin accidents.
>
> How many fatal accidents are you aware of where an ELT saved the day? That
is where the pilot survive the landing was unable to summon help and died b
efore help arrived but could have been saved had he been found within a few h
ours. No doubt there are some, but I cannot recall any.
>
> Regards, David
>
>
>
>
>> On 2017-11-02 11:12, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> this is fun.
>>
>> ELT is an interesting question.
>>
>> Maybe there are few landings where you are not either dead or able to use
a PLB in UK.
>> But in Finland, by statistically, most landings are succesfull ie you are
alive and you are able to use your PLB if you like so.
>> I assume we are talking about forced landings.
>> Personally I would launch my PLB when airborne and well before contacting
the earth.
>>
>> Smart ass is a nice gizmo, but do we really need it (if we are real Pilot
s)?
>> If it really were so lifesaver, I assume it would be mandatory in every a
c.
>> Should you consider also a stick shaker?
>> Personally I do like my Angle of Attack -system
>> (you know it=C2=B4s an essential equipment if you wanna land your fighter
to the deck of your aircraft carrier...).
>> Actually that=C2=B4s the only way to really know what=C2=B4s happening ri
ght now and how far or how close you are from stalling situation.
>> Angle of Attack is everything. Speed is nothing, as well as weight, temp,
air density or your very personal size. Just AofA!
>>
>> Also, my Europas original EA stall warner (audio-visual /horn and a giant
hight bright blue led in the field of view) works also satisfactorily.
>> However, I have seen it only when I=C2=B4m stalling by purpose and every t
ime just before touch down.
>> BTW I have always used 70 knots during the final until on the ground effe
ct.
>> Also, when landing to my strip 12/30, total lenght 300 metres.
>>
>> David, 2018 is coming soon. I will start to prepare my lakeside Sauna for
you.
>> Yes, we should really get into a "Mine=C2=B4s bigger than your=C2=B4s sor
t of argument".
>> That=C2=B4s easier to verify in sauna if I call couple of Ladies to join u
s.
>> Or should you bring one for you from UK?
>>
>> I have discussed this thing many times with girls.
>> Maybe yours is a little longer than mine (40 mn means 6%).
>> Then you count UK not England and in that case I could count Sweden-Finla
nd...
>> However, girls arguments that the lenght is nothing - only TTS (The Total
Size) matters!
>>
>> Your area /size (UK) is 242.000 km=C2=B2 (England only 130.000 km=C2=B2).
>> My area /size (Finland) is 338.000 km=C2=B2.
>> So, mine is significantly larger (40%).
>> So far, most girls have been here with me happy.
>>
>> Your total population is about 65.000.000 persons and we have 5.500.000.
>> That means you David have 3.700 m=C2=B2 of UK and I have 61.500 m=C2=B2 o
f Finland.
>> That means mine is actually almost 17 times bigger than yours.
>>
>> This is also argument for ELT & PLB; it is 17 times more valuable here th
an in UK an average.
>> I am pretty sure you do agree this.
>>
>> This land is so atractive that little Russians have tried to get it many t
imes,
>> but we have pushed them back quite easily every time and will do it again
if necessary.
>> That=C2=B4s easy because Finnish Airforce have had and have the most succ
esfull pilots in the world
>> (pls read the statistics around WWII).
>>
>> "So few have not been ever so thankful to so few"
>>
>> I hardly can wait your comments and also sauna test match FIN-UK with gir
ls.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Raimo
>> Finland
>> OH-XRT
>>
>> PS: I checked my Europa=C2=B4s logbook; actually I have logged 600 flight
hours and 800 landings since 2007
>> (this year unfortunately none w RT, but 50 hours by C172 OH-CVK and Lamco
Cub OH-U666 + one hour in a hot Air Balloon "Finland 100-years" OH-FIN")
>>
>>
>> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 2.11.2017 klo 11:09:
>>> Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged s
paces in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable pl
aces in the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it do
esn't alter the point that there are few landings where you are not either d
ead or able to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass i
s much more likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT i
n addition to a PLB.
>>>
>>> Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018
. Regards, David
>>>
>>> PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of arg
ument, but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 66
0nm top to bottom of UK!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear David,
>>>
>>> you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the remot
e place (and you have not launched your PLB),
>>> ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that
it is not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places i
n the world.
>>>
>>> Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.
>>>
>>> Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!
>>>
>>> (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).
>>>
>>> For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private st
rip here with my monowheel.
>>> To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of met
ers. They just look, maybe!!!
>>> Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my l
ife! In that case, ELT were superb.
>>>
>>> So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (
AirMaster).
>>>
>>> David, I=C2=B4m pretty sure You get it!
>>>
>>> Go on! I know you can have your burst!
>>>
>>> Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind
?
>>>
>>> ***
>>> About me /my status:
>>>
>>> - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
>>> - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash o
ne year ago
>>> - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back ag
ain.
>>> - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.
>>>
>>> David,
>>> pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!
>>>
>>> Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.
>>>
>>> Raimo
>>> OH-XRT
>>> Finland
>>>
>>> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
>>>
>>>
>>> Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are
sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating fl
ying exploits.
>>>
>>> Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context
I would take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts
of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and
don't need much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state t
o work your mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion e
ither in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of th
at!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not wal
k away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly
some 2% of us (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, e
ntirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that possibility
more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quick
ly after the event. There are suggestions of how you can address this issue o
n the (beautiful new) club website in the 'Flying' section.
>>>
>>> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jon,
>>>
>>> I do agree.
>>>
>>> One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work autom
atically after your critical impact.
>>>
>>> It=C2=B4s easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch o
n your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less pan
ic situation
>>>
>>> (when trying to survive out from your disaster).
>>>
>>> What=C2=B4s a typical accident? It=C2=B4s during take off or landing. If
shit happens then, PLB is useless!
>>>
>>> PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up alti
tude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
>>>
>>> (that=C2=B4s potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically emp
ty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
>>>
>>> I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland a
nd Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
>>>
>>> Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish f
emale ATC love my request to use it and that=C2=B4s why I have no Turbo),
>>>
>>> but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable
VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theor
y.
>>>
>>> So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when it=C2=B4s easy to
monitor your engine and listen strange sounds...
>>>
>>> (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music th
rough my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
>>>
>>> I would like to say:
>>>
>>> ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
>>>
>>> (isn=C2=B4t it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinki
ng things like that, should be vice versa...)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Raimo
>>> Finland
>>> OH-XRT
>>> The fastest Europa ever build
>>> (and only 4-seater)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
>>>
>>> Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debati
ng for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reli
able source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry.
>>>
>>> For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.
>>>
>>> With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as th
ey have all information readily available through the registration authoriti
es. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.
>>>
>>> I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms.
On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details,
and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of
three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the e
vent that the PLB is activated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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| Subject: | My fav europa flight vid to watch.... |
....wish there were many more :-)
https://youtu.be/nFg4tojrV64
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