Today's Message Index:
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0. 06:52 AM - Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:09 AM - Re: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only (craig)
2. 06:24 AM - Re: Ammeter spike (Bud Yerly)
3. 06:53 AM - Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only (Bud Yerly)
4. 11:12 AM - Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only (jonathanmilbank)
5. 01:30 PM - Carburetor flange on 912S (Steven Pitt)
6. 02:10 PM - Re: Carburetor flange on 912S (Alan Burrill)
7. 08:02 PM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__Ammeter_spike? ()
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| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
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| Subject: | Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only |
Yes that is sort of what I was thinking, but a bit longer towards the
L/E to really blend it nicely. As for the frontal area, or Flat plate
area, I think I read (tried to find it again but cant)
That the FPA for drag is any surface between zero and approximately 45
degrees to the air flow, so any surface blended at an angle greater than
45 will have little to no induced form drag.
And the amount of skin drag as compared to the whole skin of the A/C
would be so small as to not be of any real concern I would think, again
I could be wrong. Obviously the inner hinge fairing could be very thin
possibly even just a blending at the front and a fill insert between the
two parts to close the gap when the flaps are up.
If anyone knows the actual figures for the FPA I would like to know
Regards
craig
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net
Sent: Sunday, 29 October 2017 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings
only
Maybe the attached would qualify as a fence.
I made these years ago but never got around to fitting or flying them,
not believing that three 1/8" flap hinge plates edge-on to the wind
would create more drag than the greatly additional skin and frontal
areas of the fairing (although it has better form, with prospect of
pressure recovery).
Maybe one day!
Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
Can't find anything in the NACA library, except:
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1955/naca-rm-a55c30a.pdf
which applies to swept wings.
Logically, there may be an effect in reducing the spanwise flow over the
outboard section of the (fowler) flap, when the flap is deployed. But
drag in that configuration is a definite advantage in getting the a/c on
the ground. Might be worth exploring to see if there is any detectable
decrease in stall speed?
Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: craigb@onthenet.com.au
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
While on the subject of the outer flap hinge, given its location, my
thoughts were it might be advantageous to turn that hinge faring into a
"fence" to help reduce spanwise flow.
What say yee gentlemen to that. Or is it a lot of work for no real gain
Regards
Craig
Kit 577, final prep before paint
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of zwakie
Sent: Saturday, 14 October 2017 7:01 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
jonathanmilbank wrote:
> I particularly like this quote from Bud: "The flap brackets
(especially
the outers) are a huge drag source. So is the gear. Gear drag is
interesting. The legs and brake callipers actually produce more drag
than
the tyres and wheels."
Exactly the two things I thought would be of interest to you and why I
posted the link (pure luck that I had read this article again earlier
this
week, otherwise I would not have thought of it [Wink] )
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473511#473511
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Will,
Your assumptions were right and the standard Rotax, Europa, Bob Knuckles R
otax powered electrical systems are all wired basically the same. The devi
l is sometimes in the details.
As the Capacitor discharges, it has to dump its charge somewhere. Like man
y others, I put a grain of wheat incandescent bulb in my alternator warning
light circuit. This allows a slow path to ground for the capacitor discha
rge. (Evident with a slowly dimming alternator light after engine shut dow
n.) Also, the incandescent warning light is required to properly indicate
an alternator (stator) output failure in these old style regulator units.
Of course, in these type systems, if the regulator fails, you get no warnin
g from the idiot light.
Pulling the CB on the circuit and getting anything but a clean power shutdo
wn may indicate your ammeter to shunt or your Dynon indicating system is n
ot getting a clean break with the CB. If wired per the Europa manual, the
Ducati regulator does not get a CB for the control or alternator field (as
in an internal regulator) as a standard belt driven alternator would.
Email me off line with how your actual setup is, as I have found Dynon not
to always discloses some of their idiosyncrasies with tach, amps, aux power
, etc. I have found in many panels, how the alternator to shunt is set up
will affect how sudden power changes are read. I am interested as my next
project may have a Dynon Skyview, and my research on pro=92s and con=92s i
s on going.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 8:22:00 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ammeter spike
Pete
1. Here is the wiring schematic which is stock Europa.
2. the "slow blow fuzes" in the diagram where replaced with 25A and 30A Ci
rcuit breakers respectively
3. The spike occurred when I pulled the ALT circuit breaker while the engi
ne was running. I didn't leave it out for long because I was worried about
damage to the system.
4. I did not pull the battery CB at the same time.
So in summary the ALT CB, when pulled, shuts down the ALT feed to the bus.
My understanding was that one needed to be able to power the electrical sys
tem from either the battery or the alternator alone in the case an emergenc
y.
Many thanks
Will
[Inline image 1]
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com<mailto:peterz@zu
trasoft.com>> wrote:
Id need to see your wiring schematic, and understand exactly when this surg
e occurs....but there will be a surge if the capacitor is in a discharged s
tate, and if there is a switch and shunt between the capacitor and the duca
tti dump-regulator output, and this switch is closed after the engine is al
ready running.
On Oct 7, 2017, at 3:17 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com<ma
ilto:wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>> wrote:
Pete
thanks. Is this a problem/potential problem? Or is this a short term even
t?
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com<mailto:peterz@zu
trasoft.com>> wrote:
@zutrasoft.com>>
Depending upon where the large capacitor is, yes, it could spike like that
of it was discharged.
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 11:52 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com
<mailto:wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I have a dynon skyview and the ammeter reads off the shunt per dynon manu
al. My electrical system is standard europa without deviation and i have a
rotax 912
>
> The last time a flew when i started the engine had a red x over the ammet
er (ie not working) where it had worked on the previous flight.
>
> I pulled the alt 30A cb which reset the "instrument" and thereafter it re
ad normally. I left the 30A battery cb set during this process.
>
> My question: When I pulled the cb the amp reading, once it came alive, s
piked up to 60A. I immediately reset the cb and everything settled back do
wn to its normal readings.
>
> Is this spike normal?
>
> Thanks
>
> Will
pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?Europa-List
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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| Subject: | Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only |
Jonathan,
I have had a little better performance gain with proper attention to detail
around the gear, engine cowl ducting, and of course the flap brackets.
You will find that it takes as long to do a proper speed kit and transition
s as it does to fill and sand the entire fuselage. There is a lot of detai
l making speed kit transitions properly, making them light, properly secure
d, looking good, easy open to do periodic maintenance, and finally, getting
some speed out of it.
I got 17 Knots at max continuous and 10 overall at low cruise. So you are
about right in your estimates.
I=92ve attached my previous comments and techniques for ways to do transiti
ons. I do not recommend tape and 5 minute glues to fasten a gear speed kit
. Without proper gear leg support and the transitions, the speed gains ar
e less than inspiring.
As for the wing covers. I prefer a fully enclosed wing speed cover, but al
as, you have to take even more time to make it easily and quickly removable
to allow for inspection and maintenance. The Europa style wing covers are
OK as is.
As for putting them in the kit as standard, most manufacturers make this an
option as the old time Cessna owners all know that wheel pants are only mu
d flaps, so why bother. Cirrus and other fixed gear speed freaks all know
that is not true.
Attached are some things I=92ve written on speed kit installation and techn
iques for my customers installations.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 8:16:49 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
>
I'm reliably informed that the full trigear speed kit, in accurate flight t
ests before and after installation and flown level at Wide Open Throttle in
calm air, showed a full 10 knot speed gain. I'm also informed that the sam
e test performed at 65% power (4800 rpm, 26") gives about a 5 knot gain.
But I would prefer to fit only the flap and fuselage hinge fairings, partly
because they weigh altogether approx. 1 kg while the full speed kit weighs
4.1 kg (9 lbs). Presumably the flap hinge fairings must give some drag red
uction benefit, or else why would they be included in the kit?
Please would you tell me from your own experience how much speed is to be g
ained in the cruise with only flap/fuselage hinge fairings fitted. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473486#473486
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| Subject: | Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only |
Hello Bud,
At the moment my thoughts have become closely focused on my wife, who is undergoing
chemotherapy and suffering many more complications than normally occur. So
I'm putting aircraft plans and modifications on the back burner at least until
next spring.
What you say about the amount of time which needs to be devoted to aerodynamic
improvements, confirms my suspicions. Apart from that I'm asking myself "Do I
really need all that work and expenditure to gain a few knots, when 99% of my
flying is within a 50 mile radius?"
Many thanks for taking the time to make your considered reply.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474584#474584
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| Subject: | Carburetor flange on 912S |
I am biting the bullet and renewing various items on my Rotax 912S.
I have kept photo records of the flanges at each service, and not noticed any wear
as the carburettors and airbox seem well supported.
So what is the common view on changing the flanges as time expired products?
Rotax bulleting SB-912-030R1 seems to suggest only certain engines need changing
but what is the perceived wisdom from the Rotax owners out there?
Also where does one acquire these at the eyewaterinw price that I have seen on
the internet?
Thanks
Steve Pitt
912S on a trigear
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| Subject: | Re: Carburetor flange on 912S |
I think youll find that Skydrive source replacements direct from Bing and they
are less eye watering in price.
I changed mine after they had done, according to the records more than fiver years
and it may have been longer. They had no cracks even though Ive prodded and
poked them very well but changed them anyway as I have with a number of items
since buying the aircraft to get a known vintage on life parts.
In MHO if you have the air box fitted and it is well supported then the carbs dont
move on the mounts as much as those who use the cone filters and relying on
the springs Rotax put on the carb, hence putting less strain on the rubber flanges.
Alan
G-OBJT
Sent from my iPad
> On 7 Nov 2017, at 21:28, Steven Pitt <stevenwpitt@me.com> wrote:
>
>
> I am biting the bullet and renewing various items on my Rotax 912S.
> I have kept photo records of the flanges at each service, and not noticed any
wear as the carburettors and airbox seem well supported.
> So what is the common view on changing the flanges as time expired products?
> Rotax bulleting SB-912-030R1 seems to suggest only certain engines need changing
but what is the perceived wisdom from the Rotax owners out there?
> Also where does one acquire these at the eyewaterinw price that I have seen on
the internet?
> Thanks
> Steve Pitt
> 912S on a trigear
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: f-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Ammeter_spike? |
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