---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/24/17: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 07:20 AM - Value of the List... (Matt Dralle) 1. 02:48 AM - Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 2. 03:02 AM - Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear (Roland) 3. 07:42 AM - Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear (AirEupora) 4. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear (Bud Yerly) 5. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear (Tim) 6. 02:35 PM - Re: Looking for ideals on landing lights and placement (craig) 7. 05:35 PM - Re: Throttle cables (Erich Trombley) 8. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear (Bud Yerly) 9. 07:45 PM - Mono wheel versus Tri-gear (Erich Trombley) 10. 11:46 PM - Re: Throttle cables (Richard Wheelwright) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:17 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Value of the List... If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... :-) Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these Lists? http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:27 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear Hazel, The simple answer to that question for someone with relatively little flying experience is that you would do well to go for the trigear. However, there are a lot of mono pilots out there, including myself who would not give up their mono at any price. It was of course the only configuration for quite a while when the plane was first on the market and all sorts of pilots managed to get on top of it, albeit with quite a percentage of incidents. Briefly the advantages of the mono are: it is a bit faster and more economical; it is better at field landings- it was designed to land in unprepared farmers fields (I have done upwards of a dozen such landings without damage) whereas a trike is very likely to bust its nose wheel leg & prop; it is quite a bit cheaper on the UK market- and the difference might well pay for at least one ground loop & bust prop! My advice would be to get a ride in both and ask the owner to let you taxi each when you will get an insight into the challenges of ground control of the mono, then make a decision. You could put out a plea on this network for someone in your neck of the woods to fly you. If you haven't made your decision before the next Europa Club AGM or the Rally I am sure we/I can arrange something. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2017-11-23 21:39, Hazel Jackson wrote: > Hi Guys - I'm rather hoping that you can help us with this please... > > My husband and I are looking to hopefully buy a Europa in the not too distant future and we have received a lot of advice from non-Europa owners that we should go for a Tri-gear rather than a Mono wheel. I would very much like to know the pros and cons of both please, and in which circumstances each shines - from real Europa owners! > > Huge thanks > > Hazel > > [1] > Virus-free. www.avg.com [1] Links: ------ [1] http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:54 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear From: "Roland" The Europa is the right decision anyway :-) When I decided to buy a Europa I made a ride in the Monowheel with Andy Draper. Andy as a very skilled pilot had no problems in handling it of course, but I became Aware, that it would be too much of a challenge for me as an average Pilot, especially in windy conditions. So I went for a XS Trigear with a Rotax 914 and never regretted this decision. I want peace of mind and don't need the thrill of the Mono. The Trigear is very easy to land and on the ground in general when one gets used to the steering with the differentiol brake. Regards Roland PH-ZTI XS TG 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475499#475499 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:11 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear From: "AirEupora" One of the things that has not been talked about is the landing surface that you will be using. The mono does good on glass fields. Where the trouble starts is on hard surface runways. Concrete, Asphalt and the number of plies the tire has. When the Europa first arrived on the shores of the U.S. I believe they were using two ply tires. From what I have learned the fiction between the runway surface and the tire that causes a twisting of the tire and if a wing tips as in dropped during the landing, think outrigger, and touches it unloads the tire and causes the aircraft to weathervane into the wind. On glass field it will not twist the tire as much as the glass will allow the tire to move more freely as there is less fiction. I believe most of the mono wheel pilots have installed tires with more plies and you have heard a lot less about ground loops. If you have a number of hours in a tail wheel aircraft and you get good training from a mono pilot you should be OK, but any tail wheel aircraft can and will bite you if you don't fly it to parking. One of the best ways to practice is in a glider. They all have a mono wheel and they are fun to fly. In many ways I wish I had biuilt a mono wheel, as they are faster. They look so nice when they fly by. With a 914 they are an outstanding airplane. If you live it the U.S. 97% of all your landings will be on a hard surface! Rick Stockton Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475582#475582 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:46 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear Good discussion on tri vs. mono. I couldn=92t agree more with Roland and D avid Joyce. Full disclosure: I am the US Europa Dealer and an owner operator/builder. Whether you choose a mono or trigear, the Europa is still the finest flying sport aircraft after all these years. It is delightful to fly, yet provid es excellent cruise performance with toughness to absorb shocks and bumps a nd shake it off and is very repairable for builders who are unfortunate eno ugh to have a minor mishap. It is a love hate relationship between the mono and trigear. The trigear p enalty of extra drag and weight with excellent ground handling (and no retr act test or specialized equipment needed for maintenance of the wheel) vs a retractable mono that is lighter, has the potential for less drag, larger baggage capacity, looks cool, but has no similarity with a typical conventi onal gear unless the conventional gear is placed 7 inches apart. The mono is easy to land for me, even on asphalt, as long as I am sharp, on my game, proficient and have drug the strange field so I know if there are hidden s wirly wind conditions near the touchdown point if cross winds are present. Mono: I have sat through a few oops landings, but believe it or not, also runway departures on takeoff. Old habits die hard, this is not a typical tail dra gger. My bad experiences was not with bad or non current pilots, just a mo mentary lapse of applying the proper procedures at the right moment. On ta keoff, keep the stick back hard until 35Kts, small precise rudder inputs, a nd do not allow the airplane velocity vector to go outside that 7 inch whee l footprint. On landing, the same is true. The aircraft must have its vel ocity vector and alignment dead on the runway centerline, wings level, at t he precise moment of touchdown for a smooth roll on landing. It gets sport y if alignment is not precise or the stick is relaxed with or without power below flying speed. It is getting tougher for new pilot/builders to get i nsurance due to ground loop/prop strike potential. Second hand owners in t he US with the mono do not fair well. In my opinion, it is their failure t o get a proper checkout and loose their bad habits. Maintenance wise, the wheel well is the black hole of Calcutta. It is close to the ground (layin g on the cold ground), and extra equipment is needed for tire removal, retr act tests and lifting equipment. Trigear: You must have a speed kit or performance is dismal. That means more weight and time. Baggage bay area is lost, the cowl is more difficult to get off with a three blade prop around that nose leg, it has hand brakes which wor k well but for some are different, nose gear shimmy is a problem if set ver y light, and precise steering more difficult if set tight. Cross wind or s trange field landings with pesky wind gusts are a piece of cake. Mile long taxi backs with a strong crosswind will eat brakes and may overheat them. Differential brake steering means there are two more brake pads to wear ou t and an extra brake cylinder to maintain. Field blown tire drills are rar e. Brake failure is more likely. Brake failure, means no ground steering. If a tire failure does occur, the FBO has a trolley normally, and one onl y has to put his back under the spar and lightly push up and raise the whee l for the trolley or tire change. Piece of cake. With a tow bar, it is ea sy to haul and maneuver for a operator/ mechanic. There is good clearance for underside maintenance which allows working on a comfortable creeper. I like both types of gear. But an owner operator must look at all sides of the issue for his long term ownership. You are doing the right thing by a sking the questions now. Go fly both and if the test fly plane is rigged a nd properly balanced, with stall strips you are in for a treat. I=92ve done some other writings on maintenance and techniques and they are either on my website, or emails are available in the matronics archives or Europa Club website with many other excellent tech articles. I=92ve attach ed my personal notes on flying the mono in .PDF format. The trigear never needed any landing or flight articles but maintenance techniques are availa ble. Best Regards, Bud Yerly Europa trigear, 914, Airmaster Custom Flight Creations, Inc. US Europa Dealer Sent from Mail for Window s 10 ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Roland Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 6:02:24 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear The Europa is the right decision anyway :-) When I decided to buy a Europa I made a ride in the Monowheel with Andy Dra per. Andy as a very skilled pilot had no problems in handling it of course, but I became Aware, that it would be too much of a challenge for me as an average Pilot, especially in windy conditions. So I went for a XS Trigear w ith a Rotax 914 and never regretted this decision. I want peace of mind and don't need the thrill of the Mono. The Trigear is very easy to land and on the ground in general when one gets used to the steering with the differen tiol brake. Regards Roland PH-ZTI XS TG 914 Read this topic online here: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D475499%23475499&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerl y%40msn.com%7C25987b8fa6ef4b93fc3208d5332ba176%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636471184831077389&sdata=HqDfydO2Iy0fkKJYxz9C%2FOXQ%2B2g 6mFlQm6kaTC%2BnxAU%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%4 0msn.com%7C25987b8fa6ef4b93fc3208d5332ba176%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa aaa%7C1%7C0%7C636471184831077389&sdata=uOaHuSmJwYiIF369j1wCp%2FZR9AlN4p3g 8CnlOxyoUUE%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fforums.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%40msn.com%7C25987b8fa6ef 4b93fc3208d5332ba176%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636471184 831077389&sdata=NtEc%2F0DrKp2iw3BKSMu2Pi74PePTYOFVAQ9xlnuWpy0%3D&reserved =0 F%2Fwiki.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%40msn.com%7C25987b8fa6ef4b 93fc3208d5332ba176%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63647118483 1077389&sdata=yCn1074bTvX2CQ%2Fba%2BTQuHP5Vmywd%2BSlIdJ9IM9tCbo%3D&reserv ed=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%40msn.com%7C 25987b8fa6ef4b93fc3208d5332ba176%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0 %7C636471184831077389&sdata=FzNimPrCTuf4X386Ck89syl0AW1EgsAlvgcN6mxEIps%3 D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear From: Tim While your comments about the tyre are interesting and historically accurate I doubt if any Mono is still using the original golf buggy tyre. What you say about grass field strips is good but once you are up to speed on grass moving to hard runways is not a problem. I converted to a mono from PA28's with a instructor familiar with Europa's it took about seven hours all on hard runways. The trick as mentioned by Bud and others is to keep it absolutely straight and not allow it to deviate one bit from the straight path, I believe that also applies to all tailwheel aircraft from four engined transports to single seat hotrods. In my mind Trigears are great but Mono's are tremendous. Just my views based on 15 years with a mono and now three months with a trigear. Tim Houlihan On 24/11/2017 15:41, AirEupora wrote: > > One of the things that has not been talked about is the landing surface that you will be using. The mono does good on glass fields. WIf you have a number of hours in a tail wheel aircraft and you get good training from a mono pilot you should be OK, but any tail wheel aircraft can and will bite you if you don't fly it to parking. One of the best ways to practice is in a glider. They all have a mono wheel and they are fun to fly. > > In many ways I wish I had biuilt a mono wheel, as they are faster. They look so nice when they fly by. With a 914 they are an outstanding airplane. > > If you live it the U.S. 97% of all your landings will be on a hard surface! > > Rick Stockton > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475582#475582 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:15 PM PST US From: "craig" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Looking for ideals on landing lights and placement I came up with one idea, look up 5 CREE LED bike headlight on ebay. The units I got will run on voltage from 8 - 15 volts, one unit is about the same as my car headlight, they are about 2 inches across and 2.5 inches deep. Well made from aluminium with a glass lense and oring seals. The switch is on the back of the case so that will have to be moved for obvious reasons Will post a picture later today Regards craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirEupora Sent: Friday, 24 November 2017 2:31 AM Subject: Europa-List: Looking for ideals on landing lights and placement I had two HD lights in the cowl of my Jabiru powered Europa, but they turned out to be useless. I'd like to hear or see what others have done for a landing light and placement. I recently installed a 40amp alternator and electrical power is no problem now that I got rid of the so called 15 amp Jabiru alternator. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475466#475466 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:46 PM PST US From: Erich Trombley Subject: Europa-List: Re: Throttle cables Hi Richard, I am not sure what you mean by =9Cwhat ends did you secure to the outer cable? I have tried to fix the 6mm ends to a scrap cable and find it impossible to get them to screw on securely.=9D Which end are you referring to, the throttle box or the carb end? Are you not able to retain the Europa supplied cable sheath and just run the Bowden cable t hrough it? Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 ____________________________________________________________ 1 Simple Trick Removes Eye Bags & Lip Lines in Seconds Fit Mom Daily http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5a18c87d2c8d5487c76aast03duc ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:51 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear Craig and Rick, The Jab cowl has quite a slope, so I would prefer to cut in a light on the pilots side of the cowl. A lot of work. I made an exterior hanging light for 12AY and sold it to John Kershner. Ph oto Attached in the pdf. It was just a Kuntzleman which was adequate for a painted runway with lights. Good for taxi. Lights up the runway paint ab out 3-500 feet out. I have never made another for the Kuntzleman as I just didn=92t like it as much as others. Look at your off road guys. I made a swap of the Walmart special H4s on Ga ry Leinberger=92s to the Ridgid industries SR-Q2 with a bright dim switch. Either of these lights above will not light up as well as our 100,000 cand le airliner landing lights but you won=92t feel like Helen Keller coming in to land either. If you have the room, the Aeroled and Whelen standard Par light replacements are better than the smaller motorcycle types, but at le ast twice the cost and amps. I=92ve never installed an HID but they really reach out there, but in my opinion too much weight and heat. More amps to o. I personally like the Rigid SR-Q2 as they are fairly inexpensive, use the h igh output Cree LEDs and are easy to mount. They don=92t make noise either . Go to youtube and take a look at Ridgid Industries Hi/LO SRQ2 Drive Beam Pattern Snake Racing test video. I set these small LEDs all up out back of the shop, and the Spot Cree LEDs go out about 800 feet pretty well and the driving is just fine at about 500 feet and wide enough to drive down the road with just one. There are no r eflectors out behind the shop, so there is no chance these off road lights would be OK on a grass runway on a pitch black night in my opinion, but fin e for a painted runway. The Aerosun was not much different than the SRQ2 d riving light, just a little harder to mount and the lens is not as tough. I had to do a paper for clients to explain to me and the guys what the heck a lumen, candle, luminance, lux and candlepower was as comparisons are a s on of a gun without consistent standards. I=92ve attached that paper I mad e up from internet articles above also, as I know you do your research. He ll of a thing=85how bright is bright. Who knows until you see it. I wish I had unlimited resources to test these lights out on a runway. Look at Av Webs Youtube videos and get some ideas on your own as well as the off road and motorcycle guys videos. Good luck. If you are going to repaint the cowl anyway, cutting in a reces sed light is reasonable. Making an external pod is not any easier, but if t he plane is nicely painted, no repair work will be necessary, just the wiri ng. The choices we make eh? Best Regards, Bud Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of AirEupora Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 10:41:34 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear One of the things that has not been talked about is the landing surface tha t you will be using. The mono does good on glass fields. Where the troubl e starts is on hard surface runways. Concrete, Asphalt and the number of p lies the tire has. When the Europa first arrived on the shores of the U.S. I believe they were using two ply tires. From what I have learned the fic tion between the runway surface and the tire that causes a twisting of the tire and if a wing tips as in dropped during the landing, think outrigger, and touches it unloads the tire and causes the aircraft to weathervane into the wind. On glass field it will not twist the tire as much as the glass will allow t he tire to move more freely as there is less fiction. I believe most of the mono wheel pilots have installed tires with more plie s and you have heard a lot less about ground loops. If you have a number of hours in a tail wheel aircraft and you get good tra ining from a mono pilot you should be OK, but any tail wheel aircraft can a nd will bite you if you don't fly it to parking. One of the best ways to p ractice is in a glider. They all have a mono wheel and they are fun to fly .. In many ways I wish I had biuilt a mono wheel, as they are faster. They lo ok so nice when they fly by. With a 914 they are an outstanding airplane. If you live it the U.S. 97% of all your landings will be on a hard surface! Rick Stockton Read this topic online here: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D475582%23475582&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerl y%40msn.com%7C1947b3677adb41b3325608d53352eb6f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636471353584008407&sdata=wt6ueJqNuXWBo78zfxlgzp5khbmmqAM a38mc1er%2F%2Fyk%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%4 0msn.com%7C1947b3677adb41b3325608d53352eb6f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa aaa%7C1%7C0%7C636471353584008407&sdata=qvAmxbxtV5s49MGpl4v%2FNrzKymJCMxCw GDUpFDTC1as%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fforums.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%40msn.com%7C1947b3677adb 41b3325608d53352eb6f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636471353 584008407&sdata=0olIswja1PoCVBrCfLZQqRvVm0t2eZapwA%2B24MaxfQg%3D&reserved =0 F%2Fwiki.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%40msn.com%7C1947b3677adb41 b3325608d53352eb6f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63647135358 4008407&sdata=p2zKsDVXw2TV%2BvVS14hwKxcJKfXR3cUHO90qqJ9QUnA%3D&reserved =0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%40msn.com%7C 1947b3677adb41b3325608d53352eb6f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0 %7C636471353584008407&sdata=ozq3VhiJAWQLI0CGKWJKA%2FGZnMW5hhxkin4ilRYhH80 %3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:50 PM PST US From: Erich Trombley Subject: Europa-List: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear I have to echo Tim=99s experience. I transitioned into the Europa Mono with a couple of hundred hours of Cessna 152 and 172 time and zero tailwheel time. I did my tailwheel transition in the Mono and got sign ed off after 10 hours. I had two really good instructions, Bob Lindsay, test pilot extraordinaire, and another fellow that Bob provided transit ion training to. As Bob was only available for a couple of days he work ed with my local instructor/friend and got him up to speed after a coupl e of hours. I ended up with half my time with each. I also did a bit o f aggressive taxiing with Kim Prout prior to the first flight which real ly helped as I got to explore the limits of ground handling. The only tailwheel time I have is in my Mono; 750 hours over almost 15 y ears of flying. With the exception of a handful of landings on turf, I operate exclusively off of hard surfaces. Truth be told I am more nervo us on turf, worried mostly about uneven surfaces. I guess for me, it re ally comes down to what I have more experience with. As for cross wind landings I can=99t say that it is really any different in the Mono than the Cessna=99s I learned in. I crab into the wind vs. the w ing low technique. I have landed with 15+ mph direct cross wind without issue. Anything less than 90 degree provides for a slower ground speed and less roll out which is a plus. I do, however, try to make sure the plane is tracking straight at touchdown, although, I haven=99t al ways been successful. The key for me, is quick jabs of the rudder pedal s to keep it straight...dancing feet. If you apply constant rudder unti l the plane changes direction it=99s too late, your off to the rac es. I love my Mono. The only downside is the availability of hull insurance at what I consider a reasonable price. I have a 914 in my Mono and fly in the high teens and usually see a true airspeed of 165-171 kts depend ing on atmospheric conditions, burning 5.3 gal/hrs. For cross country f lying that=99s hard to beat. And lastly, she is a head turner. O h, and did I mention, I love my Mono. My two cents. Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 ____________________________________________________________ I Felt Like A Snake That Had Swallowed A Watermelon Activated You http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5a18e6f0bf25d66ef4b65st01vuc ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:37 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Throttle cables From: "Richard Wheelwright" Erich Currently experimenting with improvement options. I was looking at how different builder have shortened the outer sheath. Removing the 6mm cable adjuster from the carb end of the outlet sheath (now scrap cable) I found it impossible to put the 6mm ajuster back on to outer sheath without damaging it. I agree with you about putting the Bowden solid piano wire through the Europa suplyed outer sheath. This may be the way to go to improve operation of the throttle linkage. -------- Richard Wheelwright G-IRPW First Flight 24th July 2013 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475602#475602 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.