Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Re: Transponder Ground Plane (Ivor)
2. 12:29 AM - Re: Possible pitot static pressure problem (Ivor)
3. 02:30 AM - Re: Re: Possible pitot static pressure problem (Ron Jones)
4. 03:41 AM - Cooling a Mono Classic (Kingsley Hurst)
5. 09:34 AM - Re: Transponder Ground Plane (h&jeuropa)
6. 09:44 AM - Re: Cooling a Mono Classic (Bob Harrison)
7. 03:02 PM - Re: Cooling a Mono Classic (Bud Yerly)
8. 03:20 PM - Re: Cooling a Mono Classic (Kingsley Hurst)
9. 03:53 PM - Re: Cooling a Mono Classic (Kingsley Hurst)
10. 06:46 PM - Re: Trigear brakes (phillik747)
11. 06:57 PM - Re: Cooling a Mono Classic (phillik747)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Ground Plane |
like wise i fitted a trig 21 mode S replacing my Garmin 327 and kept the
same size ground plane as Bob Nuckolls suggested,
it works fine so why put in more weight for no quantifiable return
merry christmas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476732#476732
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Possible pitot static pressure problem |
the Trig transponder has its own built in altitude encoder that is easily adjusted
if needed( mine was spot on) so as been said leave your static off and check
for blockages in the pipe work,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476733#476733
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Possible pitot static pressure problem |
A ft BBC
Get Outlook for Android
On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 8:34 AM +0000, "Ivor" <g-iver@live.co.uk> wrote:
the Trig transponder has it=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s own built in altitude encode
r that is easily adjusted if needed( mine was spot on) so as been said leav
e your static off and check for blockages in the pipe work,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476733#476733
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Cooling a Mono Classic |
I have a plain vanilla 80HP Mono Classic. Plumbing of the coolant
radiators are as per the book and the oil cooler is mounted underneath
the spinner as recommended by Europa.
Cylinder head and Oil temps were totally unsatisfactory until I made two
ugly fixed cowl flaps (temporary ones) that allow a better air exit
path. Today, with a ground temp of 38C (@400 ASL) I climbed from ground
level to 8,500 ft at 80kts IAS on full throttle and 5500 RPM. Max CHT
and Oil Temps reached were 102C and 116C respectively. In cruise at
8500 ft on full throttle (22" MAP) and 5000 RPM with OAT of 17C, the
temps dropped to 70C and 84C respectively which is a bit cool but easily
fixed. I'm happy with the cooling at this moment but am unsure how it
will be in the hot conditions of North Western Queensland where the
ground temp is often around 42C to 45C but I digress.
After shutting down today, the OAT was 39C. CHT was 91C and Oil temp
88C. After opening the hatches on top of the cowl, I felt the temps of
the two coolant radiators in the front of the cowl and one was
noticeably hotter than the other. This is understandable as both
radiators are in series.
Ignoring the complexity of the required plumbing, I then contemplated
what might happen if the coolant radiators were connected in parallel.
I reasoned that if in parallel :-
a.. The temperature differential (deltaT?) between the coolant temp
and the OAT would be maximum on both radiators giving more efficient
cooling as opposed to different differentials in the series set-up .
b.. The flow rate through each radiator would be halved so coupled to
the higher deltaT, I assume better cooling as a result.
My question,
Does anybody have first hand experience with such a set-up and if so, do
you have any documented evidence of improved cooling as a result?
Cheers and all the best for the Festive Season to all.
Kingsley in Oz.
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Ground Plane |
Martin,
>From my experience as a ham radio operator, the ground plane antenna you describe
is made correctly. The radiating element (the vertical rod) is 1/4 wavelength
and the ground plane should be the same dimension. That is exactly what
I have in my Europa and it has worked flawlessly for over 15 years and two transponders
(Garmin GTX 327 and now Appareo ESG).
Why Dynon suggests a larger ground plane I don't understand. Antenna theory says
that the ground plane should be the same 1/4 wavelength as the radiating element.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476744#476744
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Cooling a Mono Classic |
Hi! Kingsley, Firstly congratulations on you first flight.
Have you the water radiator set 2" below the oil cooler ? and the gap below
and to the side of both matrices closed up?
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst
Sent: 24 December 2017 11:40
Subject: Europa-List: Cooling a Mono Classic
I have a plain vanilla 80HP Mono Classic. Plumbing of the coolant radiators
are as per the book and the oil cooler is mounted underneath the spinner as
recommended by Europa.
Cylinder head and Oil temps were totally unsatisfactory until I made two
ugly fixed cowl flaps (temporary ones) that allow a better air exit path.
Today, with a ground temp of 38C (@400 ASL) I climbed from ground level to
8,500 ft at 80kts IAS on full throttle and 5500 RPM. Max CHT and Oil Temps
reached were 102C and 116C respectively. In cruise at 8500 ft on full
throttle (22" MAP) and 5000 RPM with OAT of 17C, the temps dropped to 70C
and 84C respectively which is a bit cool but easily fixed. I'm happy with
the cooling at this moment but am unsure how it will be in the hot
conditions of North Western Queensland where the ground temp is often around
42C to 45C but I digress.
After shutting down today, the OAT was 39C. CHT was 91C and Oil temp 88C.
After opening the hatches on top of the cowl, I felt the temps of the two
coolant radiators in the front of the cowl and one was noticeably hotter
than the other. This is understandable as both radiators are in series.
Ignoring the complexity of the required plumbing, I then contemplated what
might happen if the coolant radiators were connected in parallel.
I reasoned that if in parallel :-
* The temperature differential (deltaT?) between the coolant temp and
the OAT would be maximum on both radiators giving more efficient cooling as
opposed to different differentials in the series set-up .
* The flow rate through each radiator would be halved so coupled to
the higher deltaT, I assume better cooling as a result.
My question,
Does anybody have first hand experience with such a set-up and if so, do you
have any documented evidence of improved cooling as a result?
Cheers and all the best for the Festive Season to all.
Kingsley in Oz.
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam
paign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
Virus-free.
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam
paign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> www.avg.com
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Cooling a Mono Classic |
Kingsley,
Congrats. My favorite mono is a Classic. Light and fun.
I have two suggestions on how to cool the Europa Classic standard install.
Kim Prout is in Southern California with a 912 (80 HP) Mono and Whirlwind c
onstant speed prop. He modified his cowl.
Smaller inlets, larger outlet it looks, and attention to detail on the cowl
inlets and everywhere else.
Also with a successful mono is Creighton Smith (912 Mono, Airmaster) in sou
thern Florida. Creighton flies from Canada to Key West Florida. We opened
up Creightons cowl exit as the standard is a bit small for our hot weather
, and put on my close fitting firewall for more exit area still, and we rea
lly should have put in cowl flaps. He has a Lenovo oil/glycol heat exchang
er so his radiators cool both the oil and coolant. On extended climbs he h
as to stair step his climb. It was fine to about 5500 feet but the extende
d climb with the Airmaster pulls more torque and consequently climb and cru
ise are good, but the cowl flaps in our opinion would allow unrestricted cl
imb. He has leaned his engine over standard a bit by moving the needles an
d installed a Hacman mixture control. Excellent cruise considering the his
stock airframe. He emailed me today and here is an excerpt:
=93In a hundred or so hours, including the longish eclipse trip to Wyoming,
We=92ve noticed a few things.
To wit:
The mixture control is kind of wonky and, as advertised, the Bing carbs do
a fine job up to about 4000ft or so. I did raise the needle.
On some of our longer legs we slalomed around buildups at 10500 and it did
a fine job and provided a tas of about 125kt even on 80hp and almost 1450lb
. You have to wait for the egts to stabilize and kind of sneak up on peak
and then richen 50 or so. The amount you have to screw the mixture needle
out at WOT and 12000ft density altitudes is a LOT more than WOT at 7500. F
orgetting to richen before reducing throttle will get your attention.
Fuel flows at 10-12k were in the high 3s.
The Long Ranger aux tank is wonderful for the flying I often do. It is als
o really useful for tankering mogas and avoiding 100LL.
The radiators are too small. Climb temps go disturbingly close to redline
even at 95-100kt. Of course I step climb. At altitude in the northern win
ter temps are a bit low at cruise and pretty low in descent. I need a cowl
flap.
The delta T is 20degF water to oil.
For snoring around Florida on 100nm legs I=92ve discovered that 4700rpm and
26in results in lower fuel flows, smooth engine and 112ktias. Good for ru
bbernecking.
Man oh man, that Airmaster prop is worth its weight in platypuses, or whate
ver they have in New Zealand.
I=92ve had carb ice on startup several times (I ran into this on several oc
casions with CV motorcycle carbs)(duh) and on descent once. A blip of thro
ttle cleared it.
I think motorcycles are always moving the throttle and for this reason are
not prone to enroute icing.=94
Both planes to my knowledge have had similar issues as you. In my opinion,
movable cowl flaps are essential in every airplane to increase speed, impr
ove high power cooling, and keep cruise temps in the warm range. Also is a
tight fit between the cowl and radiators. Never leave the air have a way
to get around a radiator. It kills efficiency. Both of these guys have in
stalled modified cold air plenums or half plenums to the carbs but have fix
ed modified cowl ramp exits. If your exit and firewall are stock, I believ
e your first option for major mods is a pair of movable cowl flaps. I beli
eve in a fixed cowl flap for experimenting but it is a speed brake at cruis
e.
As far as parallel or series radiator plumbing to enhance cooling, I think
it will be a bit of a plumbing nightmare as there is not much room in the C
lassic. I think your idea has merit as the coolant will flow slower throug
h the radiators and make them more efficient, but with a Y to each inlet an
d a tee back to the water pump, fit will be difficult. To start your exper
imenting I would suggest you make sure you have installed the radiators tig
htly to the cowl. You can tape up the gaps around the radiator for tempor
ary experimental air gap sealing.
If the engine is new, expect it to run hotter until fully broke in of cours
e.
Watch your oil temp if using the stock oil cooler behind the port radiator.
If you installed the oil cooler low under the spinner, it may need a larg
er oil cooler also.
Both Creighton and Kim are avid experimenters have great flying airplanes a
nd have worked out their issues over a number of years. They also are mech
anically very-very good.
Email me direct if you have need of links to the equipment mentioned above.
I=92m probably in trouble with both Kim and Creighton for offering up their
services but they are good hot weather Classic references on the fly.
Merry Christmas to all of you down under. Don=92t forget your sun tan loti
on.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Bob Harrison <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 12:43:39 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cooling a Mono Classic
Hi! Kingsley, Firstly congratulations on you first flight.
Have you the water radiator set 2=94 below the oil cooler ? and the gap be
low and to the side of both matrices closed up?
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst
Sent: 24 December 2017 11:40
Subject: Europa-List: Cooling a Mono Classic
I have a plain vanilla 80HP Mono Classic. Plumbing of the coolant radiator
s are as per the book and the oil cooler is mounted underneath the spinner
as recommended by Europa.
Cylinder head and Oil temps were totally unsatisfactory until I made two ug
ly fixed cowl flaps (temporary ones) that allow a better air exit path. To
day, with a ground temp of 38C (@400 ASL) I climbed from ground level to 8,
500 ft at 80kts IAS on full throttle and 5500 RPM. Max CHT and Oil Temps r
eached were 102C and 116C respectively. In cruise at 8500 ft on full thro
ttle (22" MAP) and 5000 RPM with OAT of 17C, the temps dropped to 70C and 8
4C respectively which is a bit cool but easily fixed. I'm happy with the c
ooling at this moment but am unsure how it will be in the hot conditions of
North Western Queensland where the ground temp is often around 42C to 45C
but I digress.
After shutting down today, the OAT was 39C. CHT was 91C and Oil temp 88C.
After opening the hatches on top of the cowl, I felt the temps of the two
coolant radiators in the front of the cowl and one was noticeably hotter th
an the other. This is understandable as both radiators are in series.
Ignoring the complexity of the required plumbing, I then contemplated what
might happen if the coolant radiators were connected in parallel.
I reasoned that if in parallel :-
* The temperature differential (deltaT?) between the coolant temp and t
he OAT would be maximum on both radiators giving more efficient cooling as
opposed to different differentials in the series set-up .
* The flow rate through each radiator would be halved so coupled to the
higher deltaT, I assume better cooling as a result.
My question,
Does anybody have first hand experience with such a set-up and if so, do yo
u have any documented evidence of improved cooling as a result?
Cheers and all the best for the Festive Season to all.
Kingsley in Oz.
[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png]
<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg
.com%2Femail-signature%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campa
ign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Demailclient&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca807c4043e9
c4efae41708d54af72240%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63649734
7644960109&sdata=nnEc3YjRML1CqrP1CSNXrUuQcOnhd9nL5Ju299IgQzw%3D&reserved
=0>
Virus-free. www.avg.com<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url
=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com%2Femail-signature%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_so
urce%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Demailclient&data=0
2%7C01%7C%7Ca807c4043e9c4efae41708d54af72240%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636497347644960109&sdata=nnEc3YjRML1CqrP1CSNXrUuQcOnhd9nL5
Ju299IgQzw%3D&reserved=0>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cooling a Mono Classic |
Hello Bob,
Mine is a Classic mate . . . . a completely different animal from yours
with respect to cooling.
If I can get hold of the necessary parts one day, I will consider
changing to the XS FWF but for now I=99m stuck with the original
set-up.
Cheers
Kingsley
do not archive
From: Bob Harrison
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 3:43 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cooling a Mono Classic
Hi! Kingsley, Firstly congratulations on you first flight.
Have you the water radiator set 2=9D below the oil cooler ? and
the gap below and to the side of both matrices closed up?
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cooling a Mono Classic |
Many thanks Bud, I appreciate your response.
I=92m tied up for a few days but will reply as soon as I can.
Have a good Christmas and all the best for the New Year.
Cheers
Kingsley
do not archive
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Trigear brakes |
Hello Bud,
I'm excited to go over your PDF. I have all that I need to install the Matco brakes
from Europa, just not the moldings. I have to create a mono wheel cover,
this might be a better solution for an access panel.
Thank you again Bud for your expert advice!
Merry Christmas!!
Kyle
--------
Kyle
Europa Tri-gear (under construction)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476755#476755
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cooling a Mono Classic |
Kingsley,
>From the very first flight of my Uncle's Europa (Kim Prout) he had temp issues.
The fist mod was the oil cooler moved to its own inlet below the spinner. There
have been many mods after.
In this link, the first 7 photos, you will see the current cowling mod of my Uncle's
plane. On page 4 the last two photos you can see the plane behind two knuckleheads.
I hope these photos will be helpful.
Kyle
--------
Kyle
Europa Tri-gear (under construction)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476756#476756
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|