---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/25/17: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:55 AM - Re: Re: Cooling a Mono Classic (Kingsley Hurst) 2. 03:46 AM - Re: Re: Cooling a Mono Classic (Peter Jeffers) 3. 04:11 AM - One for the books. (William Daniell) 4. 04:50 AM - Re: One for the books. (Pete) 5. 05:47 AM - Re: One for the books. (William Daniell) 6. 06:14 AM - Re: One for the books. (Pete) 7. 06:27 AM - Re: Cooling a Mono Classic (phillik747) 8. 10:38 AM - Re: Cooling a Mono Classic (Fred Klein) 9. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Transponder Ground Plane (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:13 AM PST US From: Kingsley Hurst Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Cooling a Mono Classic Many thanks Phil. I wasn't aware Kim had ongoing cooling problems. I have had a few photos of Kim's aircraft for many years but they were all taken prior to the mods you have made me aware of. I also have a Europa news article where Ivan Shaw and Kim flew to Oshkosh. The article explained oil cooling issues and how they finally settled on relocation of the oil cooler to under the spinner. This was the reason I put mine under the spinner. Thanks again Phil. Best regards Kingsley > > > Kingsley, > >> From the very first flight of my Uncle's Europa (Kim Prout) he had temp issues. The fist mod was the oil cooler moved to its own inlet below the spinner. There have been many mods after. > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:53 AM PST US From: "Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Cooling a Mono Classic Hi Kyle, I am not quite sure of your current configuration. Please confirm engine ie 912UL or ULS. From your photos you seem to be Classic Mono with I think a 912UL. In 1996 when I first flew my Classic Mono with Rotax 912UL (80 hp)we, together with a number of other builders, had cooling issues such as you mention. The fix we all discovered in those days was to provide additional exit air from the cowlings. In essence all we did was to fit aprox 1" spacers between the bottom of the lower cowling and the fuselage. This enabled greater exit air from cowling and immediately gave 10 degrees centigrade reduction in both oil and water temps. This is just an idea that may help you but on the other hand you may already have tried this. Pete Jeffers -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of phillik747 Sent: 25 December 2017 02:57 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Cooling a Mono Classic Kingsley, >From the very first flight of my Uncle's Europa (Kim Prout) he had temp issues. The fist mod was the oil cooler moved to its own inlet below the spinner. There have been many mods after. In this link, the first 7 photos, you will see the current cowling mod of my Uncle's plane. On page 4 the last two photos you can see the plane behind two knuckleheads. I hope these photos will be helpful. Kyle -------- Kyle Europa Tri-gear (under construction) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476756#476756 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:35 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Europa-List: One for the books. Yesterday I took off with my nephew who 220lbs, I'm 198 with full fuel making us 16lbs over mtow. .......and the density altitude at skgy (8500) was just under 10k. We climbed at 400/min to 10500. It is a remarkable machine. Happy holidays to all Will HJ460 Tri 912 turbo airmaster ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: One for the books. From: Pete Happy holidays Will! "912 turbo" aftermarket? (Can we have more info?) or 914 turbo? Cheers and thx, Pete :) > On Dec 25, 2017, at 7:11 AM, William Daniell wrote: > > Yesterday I took off with my nephew who 220lbs, I'm 198 with full fuel making us 16lbs over mtow. > > .......and the density altitude at skgy (8500) was just under 10k. We climbed at 400/min to 10500. > > It is a remarkable machine. > > Happy holidays to all > > Will > HJ460 > Tri 912 turbo airmaster ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:03 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: One for the books. Pete, this is a colombian adaptation for a 80hp 912. The Colombians claim that they turbo'd the 912 before rotax which might be true given the topography. Truth is wierder than fiction in Colombia. Or it might not. My guy makes the exhaust system. It has a small truck turbo (doesnt really matter which) controlled by a vernier. A garret might be better but it works fine as it it. My Savannah has a mitsuibishi turbo and my Europa has an IVECO turbo. He also made the airbox and put in the oil supply and scavenge for the turbo. You need a 914 fuel regulator. The turbo is in the same place as the 914 turbo. You need to fit the pressure normalizing tubes between the airbox and the carbs and fit bigger main jets so it runs cooler. You need to tighten the clamps on the carb rubber too. You need nitrile gaskets for the carb bowls. There's some fun stuff in it too. There is a ball valve on the oil inlet to the turbo which which stops the oil leaking out through the turbo when the engine is shut down. This ball valve is always held in place with the ball point pen spring. The system uses the mechanical fuel pump from the 912 and an electric pump which means that if you have an electrical failure the engine doesnt stop. My engine will run at about 28" without the electric pump. And that's about it. The net result is a turbo normalized 912 for less than USD25k. I run mine at 33" unless I have a heavy nephew on board. Yesterday we took off at 35". Its pretty simple and the manual wastegate doesn't really complicate things. You can control power with the wastegate or the throttle. I am comfortable with this because I have been flying with one for 10 years now in my Savannah. And in the worst case with no turbo and no electrical system you still have a 912. You can see photos at https://sites.google.com/site/europaconstructionwd/ Will On Dec 25, 2017 07:52, "Pete" wrote: > > Happy holidays Will! > > "912 turbo" aftermarket? (Can we have more info?) or 914 turbo? > > Cheers and thx, > Pete :) > > > On Dec 25, 2017, at 7:11 AM, William Daniell < > wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Yesterday I took off with my nephew who 220lbs, I'm 198 with full fuel > making us 16lbs over mtow. > > > > .......and the density altitude at skgy (8500) was just under 10k. We > climbed at 400/min to 10500. > > > > It is a remarkable machine. > > > > Happy holidays to all > > > > Will > > HJ460 > > Tri 912 turbo airmaster > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: One for the books. From: Pete Sounds like a very nice implementation! Great job you guys! At what level of boost do you start running into issues (preignition/overhea ting/twisted crank etc)? I wonder if the very nicely executed rotec sprayer, with its built in intern al regulator (should work beautifully in a blow-through configuration as lon g as the supply fuel pressure is greater than the airbox press.). https://www.rotecaerosport.com/tbi Very high quality machined piece, with some nice features, better atomizatio n, much simpler than those horrible bings etc. Cheers! Pete > On Dec 25, 2017, at 8:46 AM, William Daniell wrote: > > Pete, > > this is a colombian adaptation for a 80hp 912. The Colombians claim that t hey turbo'd the 912 before rotax which might be true given the topography. Truth is wierder than fiction in Colombia. Or it might not. > > My guy makes the exhaust system. It has a small truck turbo (doesnt reall y matter which) controlled by a vernier. A garret might be better but it wo rks fine as it it. My Savannah has a mitsuibishi turbo and my Europa has an IVECO turbo. He also made the airbox and put in the oil supply and scaveng e for the turbo. You need a 914 fuel regulator. > > The turbo is in the same place as the 914 turbo. > > You need to fit the pressure normalizing tubes between the airbox and the c arbs and fit bigger main jets so it runs cooler. You need to tighten the cl amps on the carb rubber too. You need nitrile gaskets for the carb bowls. There's some fun stuff in it too. There is a ball valve on the oil inlet t o the turbo which which stops the oil leaking out through the turbo when the engine is shut down. This ball valve is always held in place with the ball point pen spring. > > The system uses the mechanical fuel pump from the 912 and an electric pump which means that if you have an electrical failure the engine doesnt stop. My engine will run at about 28" without the electric pump. > > And that's about it. The net result is a turbo normalized 912 for less th an USD25k. I run mine at 33" unless I have a heavy nephew on board. Yester day we took off at 35". > > Its pretty simple and the manual wastegate doesn't really complicate thing s. You can control power with the wastegate or the throttle. I am comforta ble with this because I have been flying with one for 10 years now in my Sav annah. And in the worst case with no turbo and no electrical system you sti ll have a 912. You can see photos at https://sites.google.com/site/europ aconstructionwd/ > > Will > >> On Dec 25, 2017 07:52, "Pete" wrote: >> >> Happy holidays Will! >> >> "912 turbo" aftermarket? (Can we have more info?) or 914 turbo? >> >> Cheers and thx, >> Pete :) >> >> > On Dec 25, 2017, at 7:11 AM, William Daniell wrote: >> > >> > Yesterday I took off with my nephew who 220lbs, I'm 198 with full fuel m aking us 16lbs over mtow. >> > >> > .......and the density altitude at skgy (8500) was just under 10k. We climbed at 400/min to 10500. >> > >> > It is a remarkable machine. >> > >> > Happy holidays to all >> > >> > Will >> > HJ460 >> > Tri 912 turbo airmaster >> >> ========================= >> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?Europa-List >> ========================= >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========================= >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========================= >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> ========================= >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:03 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Cooling a Mono Classic From: "phillik747" Hello Pete, The engine is a 912UL. You are correct on the cowling spacers. The lower lip was dropped a bit to allow air to exit. However, I'm not sure the spacers are still there with the new mod due to the larger exit area. I live over 2000 miles away from my Uncle but I can get details if needed. Thanks, Kyle -------- Kyle Europa Tri-gear (under construction) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476764#476764 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:57 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling a Mono Classic > On Dec 24, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > > In my opinion, movable cowl flaps are essential in every airplane to increase speed, improve high power cooling, and keep cruise temps in the warm range. Bud, Might you have some drawings or pixs of the control rod linkage or cables or servos you=99ve used to open and close cowl flaps? Merry Christmas, Fred ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:58 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Transponder Ground Plane > On Dec 24, 2017, at 9:33 AM, h&jeuropa wrote: > > Why Dynon suggests a larger ground plane I don't understand. Antenna theory says that the ground plane should be the same 1/4 wavelength as the radiating element. In their instructions regarding antennas, does Dynon make any distinction between metal & FG composite airframes?or is that irrelevant?... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.