Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:08 AM - Engine Over-cooling (JonSmith)
2. 03:48 AM - Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas (JonSmith)
3. 04:58 AM - Re: Cooling a Mono Classic (Bud Yerly)
4. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: Transponder Ground Plane (Ruedi Vogel)
5. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas (Brian Davies)
6. 10:03 AM - Fuel Sender Calibration (BobD)
7. 11:33 AM - Re: Transponder Ground Plane (tennant)
8. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: Transponder Ground Plane (ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net)
9. 12:08 PM - Re: Engine Over-cooling (ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net)
10. 12:14 PM - Re: Engine Over-cooling (Roland)
11. 12:14 PM - Re: Cooling a Mono Classic (Fred Klein)
12. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: Engine Over-cooling (Pete)
13. 02:54 PM - Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas (JonSmith)
14. 03:04 PM - Re: Engine Over-cooling (JonSmith)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Engine Over-cooling |
Lots has been covered over the years about insufficient cooling. My problem is
the opposite - when airborne my cylinder head/ water temperatures are far too
low. Even in a long slow climb the temps never overheat and anything other
than a climb the temps are too low. The oil temperature used to be too low
also but a few years ago I fitted a Thermostasis oil thermostat. The oil temperature
is now perfect all the time but it has had no effect on the cylinder head
temp.
My question - does anyone have any pearls of wisdom on recommending (or otherwise)
the fitting of a coolant thermostat? In accordance with the Rotax/ Conair
Standard mod as on the LAA website.
In particular I was wondering if the fitting of such a thermostat might compromise
sufficient cooling (or reduce the usable time before overheating) on the ground?
Although mine overcools in the air, on the ground the cooling is only
just sufficient! Ive learned to live with it but on a hot day with a long slow
taxi out I have to keep a close eye on things.
Ps. Ive experimented many times with blanking the radiator with Ali tape. Helps
a bit but not perfect nor an elegant solution. Yesterday was a very cold
day and I blanked over 1/2 of the radiator off. The water temp was still too
cold in the air. In the summer, without the radiator blanked off it gets too
cool in the air and with a bit blanked off it gets too hot on the ground.....!
Lifes a compromise I guess....!
Thanks in advance, Jon
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476850#476850
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| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Hi Brian, I am going to order the Profuel joint from Merlin as you described,
in anticipation of the standard mod. I bought one of Tims aluminium elbows some
years ago but never got around to fitting it and its still in my garage!
Sorry for a silly question but do you think I need two of them (one for each end)
or will one of them cut into two be sufficient?
Cheers!
brian.davies44(at)gmail.c wrote:
> As I explained in an earlier e-mail, there is no LAA Standard Mod to fit an aluminium elbow on an XS Europa. As nobody has applied for a standard Mod I have agreed with Andy Draper that I will do so. It will be based on Tim Ward's aluminium elbow and will use Samco Profuel joints. These can be purchased from www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk in a short length of 76mm for UK Pounds 11.24 plus VAT and postage. Currently there is a 39 day lead time on this item. Part number PSCH51-BLU
>
> I will give you a progress report after Christmas.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian Davies
>
> --
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476852#476852
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| Subject: | Cooling a Mono Classic |
Fred,
I=92ll draw some up and send a photo or two when I=92m back after family vi
sits.
Regards,
Bud
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 2:01:45 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling a Mono Classic
On Dec 24, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@ms
n.com>> wrote:
In my opinion, movable cowl flaps are essential in every airplane to incre
ase speed, improve high power cooling, and keep cruise temps in the warm ra
nge.
Bud,
Might you have some drawings or pixs of the control rod linkage or cables o
r servos you=92ve used to open and close cowl flaps?
Merry Christmas,
Fred
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder Ground Plane |
An other solution is a dipole antenna inside the fuselage.
There is no Ground Plane with this kind of antenna and nothing outside
the fuselage.
Available from Spruce. Part #: 11-04212.
See:http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems1.php
See the attached pictures about the installation inside my Classic with
the TRIG TT21 main unit
close to the antenna. The same installation has been made with the radio.
These installations has been passed all the checks and work fine.
Best regards, Ruedi
Am 24.12.2017 um 09:17 schrieb Ivor:
>
> like wise i fitted a trig 21 mode S replacing my Garmin 327 and kept the
> same size ground plane as Bob Nuckolls suggested,
> it works fine so why put in more weight for no quantifiable return
> merry christmas
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476732#476732
>
>
--
Ruedi Vogel
Wiesenweg 6
CH-3380 Wangen a.A.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Hi Jon,
The standard lengths are 76mm so I have ordered two . You need about 30mm overlap
on to each joint surface and there are effectively 4 joint surfaces.
Regards
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JonSmith
Sent: 29 December 2017 11:48
Subject: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
--> <jonsmitheuropa@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi Brian, I am going to order the Profuel joint from Merlin as you described,
in anticipation of the standard mod. I bought one of Tims aluminium elbows some
years ago but never got around to fitting it and its still in my garage!
Sorry for a silly question but do you think I need two of them (one for each end)
or will one of them cut into two be sufficient?
Cheers!
brian.davies44(at)gmail.c wrote:
> As I explained in an earlier e-mail, there is no LAA Standard Mod to fit an aluminium elbow on an XS Europa. As nobody has applied for a standard Mod I have agreed with Andy Draper that I will do so. It will be based on Tim Ward's aluminium elbow and will use Samco Profuel joints. These can be purchased from www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk in a short length of 76mm for UK Pounds 11.24 plus VAT and postage. Currently there is a 39 day lead time on this item. Part number PSCH51-BLU
>
> I will give you a progress report after Christmas.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian Davies
>
> --
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476852#476852
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuel Sender Calibration |
I am trying to manually calibrate my fuel sight gauge, and also the fuel sender,
attached to my Dynon Skyview. The fuel sender is the Lyndhurst LTS3a, which
I understand is no longer in production. It was purchased and installed by the
original builder, when the project was started back in 1999. The sender is not
located in the tank, but is in a separate cylinder behind the passenger headrest,
so it is easy to access. I have attached a pdf with instructions on how
to calibrate the sender when it is attached to a VDO type fuel gauge, but I have
not fitted a VDO gauge, as I want to provide the information via the Skyview.
The instructions for calibrating the sender states that it should be calibrated
downwards from a full tank, whereas the Skyview instructions state the calibration
is started from an empty tank, upwards, which is the procedure I have followed.
At the same time, I manually calibrated the sight gauge, which is next
to the fuel sender cylinder. Skyview recommend filling the tank in 5 litre stages,
and the Skyview wizard records the change in voltage at each stage, to calibrate
the gauge to the fuel added. At a couple of stages, there is no change
in the voltage, probably because the sender has only 8 switches, and the tank
takes 11 x 5 litre fills before becoming full at 56 litres.
All seemed well as I filled the tank, marked off the sight gauge, and followed
the wizard. However, as I empty the tank, again in 5 litre drains, both the sight
gauge, and Skyview readout exaggerate the amount left in the tank at various
stages. I have drained off 40 litres of fuel, yet the sight gauge, and the
Skyview gauge read 30 litres when my maths tell me there is only 16 litres left
in the main tank (I have separately measured the contents of the reserve tank
at 9 litres). This would seem to indicate a faulty fuel sender, maybe the float
is sticking in the cylinder ? Before I dismantle the sender from the cylinder,
I wondered if anyone else has come across a similar problem, and if so, what
sender has been used as a replacement. I read from a search on here that the
MOD 60 from Europa for this type of sender now uses one that has 16 switch
positions (so should be more accurate) ; has anyone experience of retro fitting
this type, or can recommend an alternative sender ?
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476863#476863
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_sender_179.pdf
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder Ground Plane |
Hi Ruedi,
I thought that you had secretly photographed inside my fuselage!!
My Setup is absolutely identical and has been working perfectly for 20 years. I
can only recommend it.
Best regards and HAPPY NEW YEAR
Barry Tennant
--------
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476865#476865
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder Ground Plane |
Ruedi,
Can you confirm the precise dimensions of the small alloy plate covering the tufnol
of the comms antenna please, and the thickness of the tufnol.
Rgds.,
Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: r.vogel@ggs.ch
Subj: Re: Europa-List: Re: Transponder Ground Plane
An other solution is a dipole antenna inside the fuselage.
There is no Ground Plane with this kind of antenna and nothing outside
the fuselage.
Available from Spruce. Part #: 11-04212.
See:http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems1.php
See the attached pictures about the installation inside my Classic with
the TRIG TT21 main unit
close to the antenna. The same installation has been made with the radio.
These installations has been passed all the checks and work fine.
Best regards, Ruedi
Am 24.12.2017 um 09:17 schrieb Ivor:
>
> like wise i fitted a trig 21 mode S replacing my Garmin 327 and kept the
> same size ground plane as Bob Nuckolls suggested,
> it works fine so why put in more weight for no quantifiable return
> merry christmas
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476732#476732
>
>
--
Ruedi Vogel
Wiesenweg 6
CH-3380 Wangen a.A.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Over-cooling |
<<....The water temp was still too cold in the air. ..>>
By what measure? Rotax don't publish a lower limit. So long as oil is up to
temperature, low water temp should have no significance. The cylinders wil
l have a similar expansion coeff to the pistons, so 'cold seizing' should n
ot be a significant risk.
Duncan Mcf.
----Original Message----
From: jonsmitheuropa@tiscali.co.uk
Subj: Europa-List: Engine Over-cooling
>
Lots has been covered over the years about insufficient cooling. My proble
m is the opposite - when airborne my cylinder head/ water temperatures are
far too low. Even in a long slow climb the temps never overheat and anyth
ing other than a climb the temps are too low. The oil temperature used t
o be too low also but a few years ago I fitted a Thermostasis oil thermosta
t. The oil temperature is now perfect all the time but it has had no effec
t on the cylinder head temp.
My question - does anyone have any pearls of wisdom on recommending (or oth
erwise) the fitting of a coolant thermostat? In accordance with the Rotax/
Conair Standard mod as on the LAA website.
In particular I was wondering if the fitting of such a thermostat might com
promise sufficient cooling (or reduce the usable time before overheating) o
n the ground? Although mine overcools in the air, on the ground the cooli
ng is only just sufficient! I=C3=A2=C2=C2=99ve learned to live with it
but on a hot day with a long slow taxi out I have to keep a close eye on t
hings.
Ps. I=C3=A2=C2=C2=99ve experimented many times with blanking the radiat
or with Ali tape. Helps a bit but not perfect nor an elegant solution. Y
esterday was a very cold day and I blanked over 1/2 of the radiator off. T
he water temp was still too cold in the air. In the summer, without the r
adiator blanked off it gets too cool in the air and with a bit blanked off
it gets too hot on the ground.....! Life=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s a compromise
I guess....!
Thanks in advance, Jon
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476850#476850
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Over-cooling |
Hi Jon,
I've experimented a looong time, until I found a perfect setup with a XS cowling,
water thermostat and almost all air forced through the radiator with only a
5mm gap below it to feed the 7-row oil cooler instead of the standard 13-row.
Below 10C I blank 25% of the oil cooler and below 0C another 25% with a clip
of aluminium sheet. That way I get >80C oil and 95C water temperature in cruise.
During descents in very cold temperatures the oil and water temperatures drop
even with a thermostat and I don't think that you can do much against that.
To get the water temps under control on the ground was the hardest bit for me.
Everything else was trial and errow with often very surprising results (one was
the fact, that a 7-row oil cooler is sufficient even with the Turbo Rotax).
That said, I don't think, that low water temperatures are critical as opposite
to too low oil temperatures.
Good luck!
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476868#476868
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling a Mono Classic |
> On Dec 29, 2017, at 4:58 AM, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
> I=99ll draw some up and send a photo or two when I=99m
back after family visits.
Bud..thanks for the kind offerdidn=99t intend to put you
to such troublea brief narrative description would suffice, and
anything beyond that would be very much appreciated.
Because we=99re talking about cowl flaps in the (removable) lower
cowl, simplicity would be a big plus
Happy New Year,
Fred
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Over-cooling |
I was wondering for a long time if a radiator(s) exit flap could be implemented
such that during very cold weather the exit could be totally blocked off (and
also blocking off the cowl exit concurrently) but with a scat tube take-off into
the cabin for heat :-)
No idea if that would: 1- provide enough cabin heat, and 2- restrict enough to
raise the coolant/oil temps to normal operating temps, in all phases of flight.
Cheers,
Pete
> On Dec 29, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Roland <schmidtroland@web.de> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> I've experimented a looong time, until I found a perfect setup with a XS cowling,
water thermostat and almost all air forced through the radiator with only
a 5mm gap below it to feed the 7-row oil cooler instead of the standard 13-row.
Below 10C I blank 25% of the oil cooler and below 0C another 25% with a clip
of aluminium sheet. That way I get >80C oil and 95C water temperature in cruise.
During descents in very cold temperatures the oil and water temperatures
drop even with a thermostat and I don't think that you can do much against that.
>
> To get the water temps under control on the ground was the hardest bit for me.
Everything else was trial and errow with often very surprising results (one
was the fact, that a 7-row oil cooler is sufficient even with the Turbo Rotax).
>
> That said, I don't think, that low water temperatures are critical as opposite
to too low oil temperatures.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Roland
> PH-ZTI
> XS TG 914
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476868#476868
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Many thanks for that Brian, much obliged. I have now also ordered two!
Cheers, Jon
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476871#476871
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Over-cooling |
Thanks Duncan, Roland & Pete for your replies. You make me feel a bit better
about the low coolant temperature! Indeed I have always considered the oil temperature
to be more I mportant hence my fitting an oil thermostat and the oil
temp now seems to be as good as one could ever expect, 80 deg C all the time
in the air.
I was just concerned about the low coolant temperature because Im sure that on
other forums somewhere I have seen people saying that it is important to keep
the cylinders running at a reasonable temperature too. I cant remember where
Ive seen that though! As you say though Duncan, there is no lower limit for
it! My cylinder head temperature is often down at about 50 degrees C in the cruise
in summer and yesterday (cold day) was about 30 to 40 degrees in the cruise.
That was with the oil at 80 degrees with its thermostat and 50% of the
coolant radiator taped off!
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476872#476872
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