Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:44 AM - Re: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas (craig)
2. 08:25 AM - Re: Engine Over-cooling (h&jeuropa)
3. 01:44 PM - Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? (Pete)
4. 02:01 PM - Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? (Tim Ward)
5. 02:22 PM - Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? ()
6. 02:32 PM - Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
7. 02:44 PM - Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? (Pete)
8. 02:49 PM - Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? (Pete)
9. 07:16 PM - Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? (Bud Yerly)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
FYIW I installed the alloy elbow at build stage and used a commercial fuel tanker
delivery hose to connect each end the supplier was willing
To sell me half a metre, the spec sheet claimed it to be completely impervious
to all fuel types including methanol which I believe is the most
Troublesome of fuel types
Regards
Craig
Kit 577
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JonSmith
Sent: Wednesday, 3 January 2018 5:49 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
--> <jonsmitheuropa@tiscali.co.uk>
Thanks for the update Brian. Just out of interest does the mod call for any special
clamps for the silicone hose or are the standard factory jubilee clips suitable?
Ive no experience with silicone hose but Im led to believe it is softer
and have heard you can get clips with rounded edges to suit it better.
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477018#477018
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Over-cooling |
At Oshkosh 2016, Erich Trombley showed us the cowl flap he fitted. We have copied
it and find it provides similar benefits as Remi described. The only difference
from Remi's is that we use a electric actuator and display cowl flap position
on our EFIS. The actuator is a Actuonix L16-50-150-12-P Here is a photo
showing the actuator and the flap.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477072#477072
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0265_157.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? |
Great article Will, thx!
I wonder now how the europa was tested wrt Vne and if Vd was tested/is speci
fied, if there is a IAS/density altitude table, and if the the published Vne
is structural or flutter?
Is Ivan lurking? ;-)
Cheers,
Pete
> On Jan 3, 2018, at 7:23 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> w
rote:
>
> Pete
>
> I found this http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/vne-and-flutter-expla
ined
>
> What do you think think?
>
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +57 310 295 0744
>
> On Jan 1, 2018 22:19, "William Daniell" <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrot
e:
> Mmmm....why the difference? The way I read the article it says that TAS i
s the critical value. For most pilot this discussion is irrelevant because
the real issue occurs at altitude. However since we all fly here regularly
at over 12k often in mountain turbulence this is very relevant.
>
> Anyway luckily my dynon shows IAS TAS and GS and for now I'll stick with T
AS as the key value.
>
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +57 310 295 0744
>
> On Jan 1, 2018 21:43, "Pete" <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
> Oops.... I mis-stated. VNE=TAS. Va=IAS
>
>> On Jan 1, 2018, at 9:29 PM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> TAS from my research.
>> https://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Pete
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 1, 2018, at 9:15 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com
> wrote:
>>>
>>> I seem to recall a discussion on this but I can't find it on the list.
>>>
>>> At 12000 ft DA at which I was flying today, the difference is between IA
S and TAS is 20 kts or roughly 20%.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance Will
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? |
I am sure Peter Clark would have done those manoeuvres in the flight testing
. Must look at his notes again.
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton
CHRISTCHURCH 8052
Hom 03315166
> On 5/01/2018, at 10:43 AM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
> Great article Will, thx!
>
> I wonder now how the europa was tested wrt Vne and if Vd was tested/is spe
cified, if there is a IAS/density altitude table, and if the the published V
ne is structural or flutter?
>
> Is Ivan lurking? ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
>
>> On Jan 3, 2018, at 7:23 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> I found this http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/vne-and-flutter-expl
ained
>>
>> What do you think think?
>>
>> Will
>>
>> William Daniell
>> LONGPORT
>> +57 310 295 0744
>>
>> On Jan 1, 2018 22:19, "William Daniell" <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wro
te:
>> Mmmm....why the difference? The way I read the article it says that TAS i
s the critical value. For most pilot this discussion is irrelevant because
the real issue occurs at altitude. However since we all fly here regularly
at over 12k often in mountain turbulence this is very relevant.
>>
>> Anyway luckily my dynon shows IAS TAS and GS and for now I'll stick with T
AS as the key value.
>>
>> William Daniell
>> LONGPORT
>> +57 310 295 0744
>>
>> On Jan 1, 2018 21:43, "Pete" <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>> Oops.... I mis-stated. VNE=TAS. Va=IAS
>>
>>> On Jan 1, 2018, at 9:29 PM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> TAS from my research.
>>> https://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Pete
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 1, 2018, at 9:15 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.co
m> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I seem to recall a discussion on this but I can't find it on the list.
>>>>
>>>> At 12000 ft DA at which I was flying today, the difference is between I
AS and TAS is 20 kts or roughly 20%.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance Will
>>
>>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? |
All our company aircraft were tested to Vd, 10% over Vne. And not just
taken to the speed but then tested [short stick and rudder raps] to see
if any flutter mode could be excited at Vd. I have performed these tests
at/up to 8000ft . We have never experienced any flutter mode. I also
tested the tail plane underbalanced and over balanced with the same
results. To my knowledge we have not had any reported flutter incidence
on the entire fleet. As you mentioned Pete did exceed Vd on a few
occasions.
Ivan
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Ward
Sent: 04 January 2018 22:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS?
I am sure Peter Clark would have done those manoeuvres in the flight
testing. Must look at his notes again.
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton
CHRISTCHURCH 8052
Hom 03315166
On 5/01/2018, at 10:43 AM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com
<mailto:peterz@zutrasoft.com> > wrote:
Great article Will, thx!
I wonder now how the europa was tested wrt Vne and if Vd was tested/is
specified, if there is a IAS/density altitude table, and if the the
published Vne is structural or flutter?
Is Ivan lurking? ;-)
Cheers,
Pete
On Jan 3, 2018, at 7:23 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com
<mailto:wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> > wrote:
Pete
I found this
http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/vne-and-flutter-explained
What do you think think?
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Jan 1, 2018 22:19, "William Daniell" <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com
<mailto:wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> > wrote:
Mmmm....why the difference? The way I read the article it says that TAS
is the critical value. For most pilot this discussion is irrelevant
because the real issue occurs at altitude. However since we all fly
here regularly at over 12k often in mountain turbulence this is very
relevant.
Anyway luckily my dynon shows IAS TAS and GS and for now I'll stick with
TAS as the key value.
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Jan 1, 2018 21:43, "Pete" <peterz@zutrasoft.com
<mailto:peterz@zutrasoft.com> > wrote:
Oops.... I mis-stated. VNE=TAS. Va=IAS
On Jan 1, 2018, at 9:29 PM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com
<mailto:peterz@zutrasoft.com> > wrote:
TAS from my research.
https://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf
Cheers,
Pete
On Jan 1, 2018, at 9:15 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com
<mailto:wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> > wrote:
I seem to recall a discussion on this but I can't find it on the list.
At 12000 ft DA at which I was flying today, the difference is between
IAS and TAS is 20 kts or roughly 20%.
Thanks in advance Will
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? |
Jonslight adjustment, air molecules don't have volume, it's the Mass that c
ounts I think.=C2-Graham=C2-
On Thursday, 4 January 2018, 22:22, "ivanshaw@btinternet.com" <ivanshaw
@btinternet.com> wrote:
#yiv3280697347 #yiv3280697347 -- _filtered #yiv3280697347 {panose-1:2 4 5
3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3280697347 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
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347 p.yiv3280697347msonormal0, #yiv3280697347 li.yiv3280697347msonormal0, #
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ltered #yiv3280697347 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv3280697347 d
iv.yiv3280697347WordSection1 {}#yiv3280697347 All our company aircraft were
tested to Vd, 10% over Vne. And not just taken to the speed but then teste
d [short stick and rudder raps] to see if any flutter mode could be excited
at Vd. I have performed these tests at/up to 8000ft . We have never experi
enced any flutter mode. I also tested the tail plane underbalanced and over
balanced with the same results. To my knowledge we have not had any report
ed flutter incidence on the entire fleet. As you mentioned Pete did exceed
Vd on a few occasions. =C2-Ivan =C2-From: owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Ward
Sent: 04 January 2018 22:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? =C2-I am sure Peter
Clark would have done those manoeuvres in the flight testing. =C2-Must lo
ok at his notes again.Tim=C2-
Sent from my iPhone =C2-Tim Ward12 Waiwetu StreetFendalton=C2-CHRISTCHU
RCH 8052Hom 03315166
On 5/01/2018, at 10:43 AM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
Great article Will, thx! =C2-I wonder now how the europa was tested wrt V
ne and if Vd was tested/is specified, if there is a IAS/density altitude ta
ble, and if the the published Vne is structural or flutter? =C2-Is Ivan l
urking? ;-) =C2-Cheers,Pete
On Jan 3, 2018, at 7:23 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> w
rote:
Pete =C2-I found this=C2-http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/vne-an
d-flutter-explained =C2-What do you think think? =C2-Will =C2-William
Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744 =C2-On Jan 1, 2018 22:19, "William Daniell" <wdaniell.lo
ngport@gmail.com> wrote:
Mmmm....why the difference?=C2- The way I read the article it says that T
AS is the critical value.=C2- =C2-For most pilot this discussion is irr
elevant because the real issue occurs at altitude.=C2- However since we a
ll fly here regularly at over 12k often in mountain turbulence this is very
relevant. =C2-Anyway luckily my dynon shows IAS TAS and GS and for now I
'll stick with TAS as the key value. =C2-William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744 =C2-On Jan 1, 2018 21:43, "Pete" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
wrote:
Oops.... I mis-stated.=C2- VNE=TAS. Va=IAS
On Jan 1, 2018, at 9:29 PM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
TAS from my research.https://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf =C2-Ch
eers,Pete =C2-
On Jan 1, 2018, at 9:15 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> w
rote:
I seem to recall a discussion on this but I can't find it on the list. =C2
-At 12000 ft DA at which I was flying today, the difference is between IA
S and TAS is 20 kts or roughly 20%. =C2-Thanks in advance Will
=C2-
=C2-
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? |
Many thanks Ivan! That is comforting to know (and i'm not surprised ;)
Any idea what was done with the glider wings? They would be a good candidate
for an IAS/density alt table :-)
Thx again!
Pete
> On Jan 4, 2018, at 5:21 PM, <ivanshaw@btinternet.com> <ivanshaw@btinternet
.com> wrote:
>
> All our company aircraft were tested to Vd, 10% over Vne. And not just tak
en to the speed but then tested [short stick and rudder raps] to see if any f
lutter mode could be excited at Vd. I have performed these tests at/up to 80
00ft . We have never experienced any flutter mode. I also tested the tail pl
ane underbalanced and over balanced with the same results. To my knowledge w
e have not had any reported flutter incidence on the entire fleet. As you me
ntioned Pete did exceed Vd on a few occasions.
>
> Ivan
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Ward
> Sent: 04 January 2018 22:01
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS?
>
> I am sure Peter Clark would have done those manoeuvres in the flight testi
ng. Must look at his notes again.
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street
> Fendalton
> CHRISTCHURCH 8052
> Hom 03315166
>
> On 5/01/2018, at 10:43 AM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
> Great article Will, thx!
>
> I wonder now how the europa was tested wrt Vne and if Vd was tested/is spe
cified, if there is a IAS/density altitude table, and if the the published V
ne is structural or flutter?
>
> Is Ivan lurking? ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
>
> On Jan 3, 2018, at 7:23 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> w
rote:
>
> Pete
>
> I found this http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/vne-and-flutter-expla
ined
>
> What do you think think?
>
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +57 310 295 0744
>
> On Jan 1, 2018 22:19, "William Daniell" <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrot
e:
> Mmmm....why the difference? The way I read the article it says that TAS i
s the critical value. For most pilot this discussion is irrelevant because
the real issue occurs at altitude. However since we all fly here regularly
at over 12k often in mountain turbulence this is very relevant.
>
> Anyway luckily my dynon shows IAS TAS and GS and for now I'll stick with T
AS as the key value.
>
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +57 310 295 0744
>
> On Jan 1, 2018 21:43, "Pete" <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
> Oops.... I mis-stated. VNE=TAS. Va=IAS
>
> On Jan 1, 2018, at 9:29 PM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
> TAS from my research.
> https://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
>
>
> On Jan 1, 2018, at 9:15 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> w
rote:
>
> I seem to recall a discussion on this but I can't find it on the list.
>
> At 12000 ft DA at which I was flying today, the difference is between IAS a
nd TAS is 20 kts or roughly 20%.
>
> Thanks in advance Will
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? |
Hi Ivan, just to confirm, Vd IAS @8000ft DA?
Thanks again!
Pete
> On Jan 4, 2018, at 5:21 PM, <ivanshaw@btinternet.com> <ivanshaw@btinternet
.com> wrote:
>
> All our company aircraft were tested to Vd, 10% over Vne. And not just tak
en to the speed but then tested [short stick and rudder raps] to see if any f
lutter mode could be excited at Vd. I have performed these tests at/up to 80
00ft . We have never experienced any flutter mode. I also tested the tail pl
ane underbalanced and over balanced with the same results. To my knowledge w
e have not had any reported flutter incidence on the entire fleet. As you me
ntioned Pete did exceed Vd on a few occasions.
>
> Ivan
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS? |
Yep Graham,
Airplanes only feel air pressure, not the velocity of the molecule alone.
Dynamic pressure is =BD Density times Velocity Squared or IAS (actually y
ou have calibrated then equivalent) is what the airplane feels. Those RV g
uys got all hung up on this and confused everyone.
Bottom line, what you read on the airspeed indicator counts. TAS is import
ant (actually Mach number) as the skin heats up due to friction which is a
different ball of wax. I was always a slow speed aero guy to match my mind
.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 5:49:37 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Are Vne and Va IAS or TAS?
Hi Ivan, just to confirm, Vd IAS @8000ft DA?
Thanks again!
Pete
On Jan 4, 2018, at 5:21 PM, <ivanshaw@btinternet.com<mailto:ivanshaw@btinte
rnet.com>> <ivanshaw@btinternet.com<mailto:ivanshaw@btinternet.com>> wrote:
All our company aircraft were tested to Vd, 10% over Vne. And not just take
n to the speed but then tested [short stick and rudder raps] to see if any
flutter mode could be excited at Vd. I have performed these tests at/up to
8000ft . We have never experienced any flutter mode. I also tested the tail
plane underbalanced and over balanced with the same results. To my knowled
ge we have not had any reported flutter incidence on the entire fleet. As y
ou mentioned Pete did exceed Vd on a few occasions.
Ivan
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