Today's Message Index:
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1. 12:08 AM - Outrigger Legs wanted (Roger Sheridan)
2. 12:40 AM - Re: Newbie questions (Roland)
3. 12:48 AM - Re: Corrosion in the engine/nose gear mounting frame (Roland)
4. 12:51 AM - Re: Newbie questions (flyingeuropa)
5. 01:37 AM - Re: Newbie questions (clivesutton)
6. 01:49 AM - Re: Europa Club 25 years lapel badge / pin (clivesutton)
7. 06:08 AM - Re: Europa Club 25 years lapel badge / pin (Mike)
8. 06:32 AM - Re: Newbie questions (jonathanmilbank)
9. 09:19 AM - Re: Unused bits and pieces for sale (spcialeffects)
10. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: Newbie questions (Olivier.hequet@neuf.fr)
11. 01:18 PM - Re: Newbie questions (Roland)
12. 02:52 PM - Re: Newbie questions (jglazener)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Outrigger Legs wanted |
Good day,
If anybody in the UK has 38cm outrigger legs for sale please get in touch.
Thanks,
Roger
075450851867
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie questions |
Hello Simon and welcome!
I own a Europa XS Trigear since 2011, which I bought second hand. Im based at Essen-Mlheim
EDLE and you are welcome to have a look at it. I have a dutch registration
and an increased MTOM of 656 kg, so that payload is exactly 250 kg, which
is plenty for a twoseater with the heavy Rotax 914 Turbo Id say (however
I think, that you are determined on 621 kg MTOM with a german registration).
You wont find many (if not any) planes with the performance of the Europa on such
low operating costs, especially if you like me store the plane in a trailer
and refuel at the petrol station.
You are also welcome to contact me by phone 0160 993 552 43.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478632#478632
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion in the engine/nose gear mounting frame |
All clear! It turned out, that the corrosion is only superficial and will be treated
with Brunox epoxy and painting to prevent the frame from more serious damage.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie questions |
Hi Jonathan,
thanks for your reply and help.
I would like to build all by myself to know the airplane well and as a builder
to do the maintenance on my own in the future.
I don't feel well taking an already started kit.
3000+... that's a lot. How can they say 800-1200 hours on their website?
I havn't found any actual builder log with the NG Quickbuild kit, most of the sites
are old and outdated.
Do you know anybody who has build the QB Kit in Germany going through the whole
certification with the OUV, the amateur build association here?
Best regards
Simon
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie questions |
Simon - welcome to the Europa fraternity!
May I suggest there is probably no better introduction to the Europa than to take
up the offer of one or more of our German friends and meet to see a Europa
in your locale (ideally both Mono and Tri-gear), and witness for yourself the
enthusiasm I'm sure they will have for this great aircraft.
As others have also said, the Europa Club is excellent - both as a source of information
and of inspiration.
Like many, I also searched for years comparing the best set of compromises on landing/cruise
speeds, payload, cost of ownership, durability, performance etc
and for me it became a clear choice between the Europa and one of the Vans aircraft.
But before you embark on selecting any home-built, may I also suggest it's worth
asking yourself: 'which do i enjoy most - creating/building or solely flying?'.
850 hours build from scratch seems very ambitious - more likely double or
triple that for a factory crated kit. The number of bells and whistles one prefers
can add significantly to both cost and weight.
>From experience (twice now), buying a second-hand part-built Europa is a significantly
faster route to flying one - providing someone who knows the aircraft
can inspect and/or vouch for both its build quality and paperwork integrity.
They come up occasionally and there are plenty of part-built or even purchased
but 'little-worked-on' kits out there - and their owners are often not opposed
to receiving an offer to buy them. It's a good way to minimise the capital
cost and instead spend that money on finishing and configuration to your taste.
My experience is that the finish/refurbish route can take 2-3 years part-time
and maybe as little as a year if you are able to spend most of your time on
it. PS: ask your wife what she thinks . . .
My MTOW is 1370lb/621kg (its a mono but i've owned both types). Its empty weight
is 825lbs/375kg. Incorporating the extended baggage bay MOD takes the baggage
capability to 80lbs/36kg. My Tri-gear was rather heavily built and was 910lbs
empty which limited the payload to e.g. a single pair of shoes. I refurbished
the Tri-Gear from salvage and it eventually cost me c45k by the time it
got its permit back. The Mono was already structurally complete when i bought
it (but un-flown) and that has cost me c40k.
Best wishes in your search
Clive Sutton, G-YETI (UK)
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478635#478635
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Club 25 years lapel badge / pin |
A(nother) welcome surprise, got mine yesterday - my thanks to the Committee
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| Subject: | Europa Club 25 years lapel badge / pin |
Just received mine - a much appreciated gift and a fine commemoration.
Is it really 25 years?
Many thanks.
Mike Gamble
CFMP
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of
davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
Sent: 12 March 2018 15:57
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Club 25 years lapel badge / pin
Jonathan, Yes the committee have worked hard on this and are pleased
with the result. The major thanks however are due to our hard working
secretary Bob Hitchcock.
Regards, David Joyce, Chair, Europa Club
On 2018-03-12 14:16, jonathanmilbank wrote:
<jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> >
Just received mine in the post, which was an unexpected surprise. Many
thanks to our chairman and committee for arranging this gift. Much
appreciated.
Jonathan
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478615#478615
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie questions |
Simon,
The advice to buy a partially built kit needs further consideration. I remember
from many years ago (maybe no longer true) that your OUV is more strict than
our LAA, regarding making structures with fibreglass.
The OUV requires that every time you mix any amount of resin to apply to the glass
cloth, you must dribble a small amount of the mix, about 6 or 8 cm long and
1 cm wide (my guess), onto a piece of cardboard and then allow it to cure hard,
together with the fibreglass job which used that same resin mix. Also you
should write on that cardboard the date and specify which job / component the
resin was used for. At some date thereafter the OUV will require to receive and
test for themselves the strength of your resin samples.
For the above reason, I would advise that if you decide buy a partially completed
kit, you should buy it in Germany, or the OUV might refuse to accept that the
original builder has complied with their standards. This is a matter which
I suggest you should ask the OUV about, before purchasing.
My suggestion of 3000+ hours build time is too pessimistic, because I built an
early kit which was totally the opposite of QB. There were at least 1500 hours
build time needed for my wings, flaps and ailerons, but my mind has tried to
wipe out that nightmare. Hand-finishing the surfaces of those components took
about half of the total, which is not necessary for QB.
You really should get together with other German Europa pilots and builders, who
I'm sure will give you every possible support. If weight is important enough
to you, then keep in mind that the mono-wheel is almost 20 kg lighter than the
tri-gear and also that Rotax 914 turbo engines are maybe 8 kg heavier than Rotax
912.
Good hunting,
Jonathan
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| Subject: | Re: Unused bits and pieces for sale |
GRT hall sensor
Pocket nets
6 AWG Cable
All the above sold but the other parts are still available
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie questions |
Hello,
What type of modifications on your europa permit to MTOM at 656kgs?
Olivier
> Le 13 mars 2018 09:40, Roland <schmidtroland@web.de> a crit :
>
>
> Hello Simon and welcome!
>
> I own a Europa XS Trigear since 2011, which I bought second hand. Im based at
Essen-Mlheim EDLE and you are welcome to have a look at it. I have a dutch registration
and an increased MTOM of 656 kg, so that payload is exactly 250 kg,
which is plenty for a twoseater with the heavy Rotax 914 Turbo Id say (however
I think, that you are determined on 621 kg MTOM with a german registration).
>
> You wont find many (if not any) planes with the performance of the Europa on
such low operating costs, especially if you like me store the plane in a trailer
and refuel at the petrol station.
>
> You are also welcome to contact me by phone 0160 993 552 43.
>
> Regards
> Roland
> PH-ZTI
> XS TG 914
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478632#478632
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie questions |
Bonjour Olivier,
there are a couple of countries, where the Europa (XS) is cleared for a MTOM of
656 and the Netherlands is one of them. When changing from the British to the
Dutch registration, the POH had to be amended due to the changes in performance,
stall speed, center of gravity limits etc.
AFAIK 656 kg MTOM is also possible in the US, Canada and Sweden.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478648#478648
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie questions |
Hello Simon,
Having been through the process you describe and having gone grey in the meantime,
herewith a few of my two Eurocents:
- 3000 hours is a minimum. I started of logging everything with the idea of making
a complete WBS with hours attached, but gave that up very quickly. If you
could put it together like an Airfix kit 800 hrs might be OK but it doesn't work
that way. You only spend a percentage of the time actually making things. The
rest is thinking, understandig, planning, trimming, fitting and then doing
it all over again. So don't focus on the hours, it's the years that you are willing
to take that are important. I've spent 10 so far (maybe not a record), and
unless you can put everything aside you will find life throws you curveballs
and the plane will come second for a while.
- That said I have enjoyed every minute and would do it all again. It is now reaching
the end stage and that is a great feeling.
- I spent 1,5 years on Kit 1 which is now all quick build. I have helped a friend
with his Kit 1 QB and that really was very quick, just a few bonding jobs.
So that is a clear win.
-Now that I mention said friend, the most important thing is lining up the home
front. He had "forgotten" to mention to his wife that he was starting the build
which led him to contract a fierce case of AIDS (Aviation Induced Divorce
Syndrome). Saved his marriage but the plane dream crashed in flames. My wife was
more understanding, but the deal was that I would do it in the off hours and
the family would not be impacted.
- The right attitude is important. If you want to fly quickly and cheaply, this
is not the way. Do it for the building and it will reward you well. Flying is
then the cherry on top. 2/3 of kits do not get finished by the original buyer.
I started off with the intent that I would finish it, whatever. Even though
it has taken much longer than I hoped and there were times I just wanted to chuck
it, I will finish it.
- The builder support is excellent. Nice people and very helpful. I would highly
recommend you go to Yorkshire for a long weekend and go to Europa. The countryside
is stunning and worth a visit even if you don't buy the plane.
- Only do it if you have a suitable garage at hand. Even a short distance makes
it impractical to walk in and do a few things when you have the time. Those moments
are in practice when most gets done.
Wishing you great wisdom in your decisions!
Regards, Jeroen
--------
Jeroen
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165
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