---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/13/18: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:08 AM - Outrigger Legs wanted (Roger Sheridan) 2. 12:40 AM - Re: Newbie questions (Roland) 3. 12:48 AM - Re: Corrosion in the engine/nose gear mounting frame (Roland) 4. 12:51 AM - Re: Newbie questions (flyingeuropa) 5. 01:37 AM - Re: Newbie questions (clivesutton) 6. 01:49 AM - Re: Europa Club 25 years lapel badge / pin (clivesutton) 7. 06:08 AM - Re: Europa Club 25 years lapel badge / pin (Mike) 8. 06:32 AM - Re: Newbie questions (jonathanmilbank) 9. 09:19 AM - Re: Unused bits and pieces for sale (spcialeffects) 10. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: Newbie questions (Olivier.hequet@neuf.fr) 11. 01:18 PM - Re: Newbie questions (Roland) 12. 02:52 PM - Re: Newbie questions (jglazener) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:06 AM PST US From: Roger Sheridan Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Legs wanted Good day, If anybody in the UK has 38cm outrigger legs for sale please get in touch. Thanks, Roger 075450851867 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:40:50 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Newbie questions From: "Roland" Hello Simon and welcome! I own a Europa XS Trigear since 2011, which I bought second hand. Im based at Essen-Mlheim EDLE and you are welcome to have a look at it. I have a dutch registration and an increased MTOM of 656 kg, so that payload is exactly 250 kg, which is plenty for a twoseater with the heavy Rotax 914 Turbo Id say (however I think, that you are determined on 621 kg MTOM with a german registration). You wont find many (if not any) planes with the performance of the Europa on such low operating costs, especially if you like me store the plane in a trailer and refuel at the petrol station. You are also welcome to contact me by phone 0160 993 552 43. Regards Roland PH-ZTI XS TG 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478632#478632 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:40 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Corrosion in the engine/nose gear mounting frame From: "Roland" All clear! It turned out, that the corrosion is only superficial and will be treated with Brunox epoxy and painting to prevent the frame from more serious damage. Regards Roland PH-ZTI XS TG 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478633#478633 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:51:27 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Newbie questions From: "flyingeuropa" Hi Jonathan, thanks for your reply and help. I would like to build all by myself to know the airplane well and as a builder to do the maintenance on my own in the future. I don't feel well taking an already started kit. 3000+... that's a lot. How can they say 800-1200 hours on their website? I havn't found any actual builder log with the NG Quickbuild kit, most of the sites are old and outdated. Do you know anybody who has build the QB Kit in Germany going through the whole certification with the OUV, the amateur build association here? Best regards Simon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478634#478634 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:37 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Newbie questions From: "clivesutton" Simon - welcome to the Europa fraternity! May I suggest there is probably no better introduction to the Europa than to take up the offer of one or more of our German friends and meet to see a Europa in your locale (ideally both Mono and Tri-gear), and witness for yourself the enthusiasm I'm sure they will have for this great aircraft. As others have also said, the Europa Club is excellent - both as a source of information and of inspiration. Like many, I also searched for years comparing the best set of compromises on landing/cruise speeds, payload, cost of ownership, durability, performance etc and for me it became a clear choice between the Europa and one of the Vans aircraft. But before you embark on selecting any home-built, may I also suggest it's worth asking yourself: 'which do i enjoy most - creating/building or solely flying?'. 850 hours build from scratch seems very ambitious - more likely double or triple that for a factory crated kit. The number of bells and whistles one prefers can add significantly to both cost and weight. >From experience (twice now), buying a second-hand part-built Europa is a significantly faster route to flying one - providing someone who knows the aircraft can inspect and/or vouch for both its build quality and paperwork integrity. They come up occasionally and there are plenty of part-built or even purchased but 'little-worked-on' kits out there - and their owners are often not opposed to receiving an offer to buy them. It's a good way to minimise the capital cost and instead spend that money on finishing and configuration to your taste. My experience is that the finish/refurbish route can take 2-3 years part-time and maybe as little as a year if you are able to spend most of your time on it. PS: ask your wife what she thinks . . . My MTOW is 1370lb/621kg (its a mono but i've owned both types). Its empty weight is 825lbs/375kg. Incorporating the extended baggage bay MOD takes the baggage capability to 80lbs/36kg. My Tri-gear was rather heavily built and was 910lbs empty which limited the payload to e.g. a single pair of shoes. I refurbished the Tri-Gear from salvage and it eventually cost me c45k by the time it got its permit back. The Mono was already structurally complete when i bought it (but un-flown) and that has cost me c40k. Best wishes in your search Clive Sutton, G-YETI (UK) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478635#478635 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:27 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa Club 25 years lapel badge / pin From: "clivesutton" A(nother) welcome surprise, got mine yesterday - my thanks to the Committee Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478636#478636 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:03 AM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Club 25 years lapel badge / pin Just received mine - a much appreciated gift and a fine commemoration. Is it really 25 years? Many thanks. Mike Gamble CFMP From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Sent: 12 March 2018 15:57 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Club 25 years lapel badge / pin Jonathan, Yes the committee have worked hard on this and are pleased with the result. The major thanks however are due to our hard working secretary Bob Hitchcock. Regards, David Joyce, Chair, Europa Club On 2018-03-12 14:16, jonathanmilbank wrote: > Just received mine in the post, which was an unexpected surprise. Many thanks to our chairman and committee for arranging this gift. Much appreciated. Jonathan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478615#478615 ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ics.com .com .matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:21 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Newbie questions From: "jonathanmilbank" Simon, The advice to buy a partially built kit needs further consideration. I remember from many years ago (maybe no longer true) that your OUV is more strict than our LAA, regarding making structures with fibreglass. The OUV requires that every time you mix any amount of resin to apply to the glass cloth, you must dribble a small amount of the mix, about 6 or 8 cm long and 1 cm wide (my guess), onto a piece of cardboard and then allow it to cure hard, together with the fibreglass job which used that same resin mix. Also you should write on that cardboard the date and specify which job / component the resin was used for. At some date thereafter the OUV will require to receive and test for themselves the strength of your resin samples. For the above reason, I would advise that if you decide buy a partially completed kit, you should buy it in Germany, or the OUV might refuse to accept that the original builder has complied with their standards. This is a matter which I suggest you should ask the OUV about, before purchasing. My suggestion of 3000+ hours build time is too pessimistic, because I built an early kit which was totally the opposite of QB. There were at least 1500 hours build time needed for my wings, flaps and ailerons, but my mind has tried to wipe out that nightmare. Hand-finishing the surfaces of those components took about half of the total, which is not necessary for QB. You really should get together with other German Europa pilots and builders, who I'm sure will give you every possible support. If weight is important enough to you, then keep in mind that the mono-wheel is almost 20 kg lighter than the tri-gear and also that Rotax 914 turbo engines are maybe 8 kg heavier than Rotax 912. Good hunting, Jonathan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478638#478638 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:10 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Unused bits and pieces for sale From: "spcialeffects" GRT hall sensor Pocket nets 6 AWG Cable All the above sold but the other parts are still available Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478643#478643 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:45 PM PST US From: "Olivier.hequet@neuf.fr" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Newbie questions Hello, What type of modifications on your europa permit to MTOM at 656kgs? Olivier > Le 13 mars 2018 09:40, Roland a crit : > > > Hello Simon and welcome! > > I own a Europa XS Trigear since 2011, which I bought second hand. Im based at Essen-Mlheim EDLE and you are welcome to have a look at it. I have a dutch registration and an increased MTOM of 656 kg, so that payload is exactly 250 kg, which is plenty for a twoseater with the heavy Rotax 914 Turbo Id say (however I think, that you are determined on 621 kg MTOM with a german registration). > > You wont find many (if not any) planes with the performance of the Europa on such low operating costs, especially if you like me store the plane in a trailer and refuel at the petrol station. > > You are also welcome to contact me by phone 0160 993 552 43. > > Regards > Roland > PH-ZTI > XS TG 914 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478632#478632 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:50 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Newbie questions From: "Roland" Bonjour Olivier, there are a couple of countries, where the Europa (XS) is cleared for a MTOM of 656 and the Netherlands is one of them. When changing from the British to the Dutch registration, the POH had to be amended due to the changes in performance, stall speed, center of gravity limits etc. AFAIK 656 kg MTOM is also possible in the US, Canada and Sweden. Regards Roland PH-ZTI XS TG 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478648#478648 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:48 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Newbie questions From: "jglazener" Hello Simon, Having been through the process you describe and having gone grey in the meantime, herewith a few of my two Eurocents: - 3000 hours is a minimum. I started of logging everything with the idea of making a complete WBS with hours attached, but gave that up very quickly. If you could put it together like an Airfix kit 800 hrs might be OK but it doesn't work that way. You only spend a percentage of the time actually making things. The rest is thinking, understandig, planning, trimming, fitting and then doing it all over again. So don't focus on the hours, it's the years that you are willing to take that are important. I've spent 10 so far (maybe not a record), and unless you can put everything aside you will find life throws you curveballs and the plane will come second for a while. - That said I have enjoyed every minute and would do it all again. It is now reaching the end stage and that is a great feeling. - I spent 1,5 years on Kit 1 which is now all quick build. I have helped a friend with his Kit 1 QB and that really was very quick, just a few bonding jobs. So that is a clear win. -Now that I mention said friend, the most important thing is lining up the home front. He had "forgotten" to mention to his wife that he was starting the build which led him to contract a fierce case of AIDS (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome). Saved his marriage but the plane dream crashed in flames. My wife was more understanding, but the deal was that I would do it in the off hours and the family would not be impacted. - The right attitude is important. If you want to fly quickly and cheaply, this is not the way. Do it for the building and it will reward you well. Flying is then the cherry on top. 2/3 of kits do not get finished by the original buyer. I started off with the intent that I would finish it, whatever. Even though it has taken much longer than I hoped and there were times I just wanted to chuck it, I will finish it. - The builder support is excellent. Nice people and very helpful. I would highly recommend you go to Yorkshire for a long weekend and go to Europa. The countryside is stunning and worth a visit even if you don't buy the plane. - Only do it if you have a suitable garage at hand. Even a short distance makes it impractical to walk in and do a few things when you have the time. Those moments are in practice when most gets done. Wishing you great wisdom in your decisions! Regards, Jeroen -------- Jeroen http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478649#478649 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.