Europa-List Digest Archive

Fri 04/06/18


Total Messages Posted: 4



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:07 AM - Re: Sun 'n Fun 2018 (Bud Yerly)
     2. 07:11 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Electric fuel pumps (William Daniell)
     3. 10:47 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Electric fuel pumps (Mike Gregory)
     4. 12:31 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Electric fuel pumps (William Daniell)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:07:59 AM PST US
    From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: Sun 'n Fun 2018
    Sounds great Mike. The weather starting Wed morning will be great here for the week. Weather forecasts now show the front slowing and hanging around and backing up a bit, then clearing by Wed, but more trouble for those coming in from the north and west. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr onics.com> on behalf of duanefamly@aol.com <duanefamly@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 3:10:29 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Sun 'n Fun 2018 Bud, Your superb salesmanship has caused me to rethink that the trip would be to o much with all the other stuff I have going on=85=85.so today I booked my flight and will be there Thursday and Friday with a chance of some Sat morn ing depending on the travel plans. Looking forward to seeing you again. Save me a seat at the Engineering Meet ing. Mike Duane N377EA Europa XS Conventional Gear Las Vegas, Nevada Sent from Windows Mail From: budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com> Sent: =FDMonday=FD, =FDApril=FD =FD2=FD, =FD2018 =FD7=FD:=FD18=FD =FDAM I=92ve checked the forecast for the week of 10-15 April (Tuesday through Su nday) at the show will be sunny with a high in the mid 80=92s. Bring your sun screen and warm your bones after this nasty winter, and so called sprin g, and enjoy a spring break. You have no excuses not to enjoy a respite fr om the winter, bond with your fellow aviation enthusiasts, and enjoy some f un in the sun. We have new builders and restarting builders coming on down , and there will be much to share. As the front system presses south with a few showery clouds on Wednesday, s o our northern brothers can follow it down without difficulty either a bit early ahead of it, or plan a mid week arrival on the tail of it. Bring sho rt sleeve shirts, your shorts and some sunscreen. With one week to go, I am all set and have all the gear ready to go for an easy Monday setup. I=92m looking for the best day to have a Europa get tog ether. I believe that Friday will be the best day for an engineering meeti ng. Wipe off the winter woes and get the engine and airframe warmed up and come enjoy a week with us for Sun =91n Fun. Contact me if you are planning to attend or have special needs I can help w ith. Best Regards, Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations, Inc. US Europa Dealer (813) 244-8354 Personal Email: budyerly@msn.com Sent from Mail<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https% 3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=02%7C01%7C%7C 0505b976b2c844cb6dd808d59ac4f618%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0 %7C636585093083560472&sdata=knVR7%2BWixqwF%2Ba7ZF%2F0KYNI9wkf1TH28otefKac Re5U%3D&reserved=0> for Windows 10


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:11:23 AM PST US
    From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Rotax 914 Electric fuel pumps
    Mike Naturally I would never leave the pumps on after parking because I always use and follow my checklists :-). Actually mine are quite noisy Bosch injection pumps so its probably not likely. Thanks for your comments, much appreciated and valid points. My main aim is to simplify the electrical system precisely for safety sake. I have a secondary aim which is my flight to the US. There are some quite long legs over water or jungle (which amounts to the same thing). I want to be able to maximize the electrical range by switching off all unnecessary electrical loads. For me this includes everything except what is needed to run the engine range as my back up batteries and handheld devices will take care of the flying aspect. So ideally Id like to have one buss which I can switch off to achieve this minimal electrical load. At the moment I think the only things which require separate switches are - Master - mags - Avionics 1 - ADSB XPNDR RADIO Intercom - Avionics 2 - AP servos in case they start acting strangely I would like to able to switch them off separately. - Fuel Pumps x 2 - sometimes on the ground one wants to fiddle with the EFIS without the pump draining the battery. - Landing and Anti Col lights Connecting a pump to the battery might be a moot point because sudden and complete alternators failures are very rare and also my Rotax 912 turbo has a mechanical pump which in theory should maintain up to 29 in at sea level. I have yet to test this. Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 7:32 PM, Mike Gregory <m.j.gregory@talk21.com> wrote: > Hello Will, > > > You could connect the second fuel pump direct to the battery, via a > fuse/CB and switch as for the trim circuit, but why would you wish to? > > > In the event of alternator failure, unless you have a low-capacity main > battery, you have plenty of time to shed loads according to how long you > need to keep airborne. In the event of a forced landing and turning off the > main bus with the master switch, the electric trim is kept operational to > avoid heavy stick forces, but this logic does not apply to the fuel pump. > > > If the engine has stopped and you are making a forced landing, a single > action to turn off the master switch before contact with the ground will > kill all electrics (except the trim and your built-in standby batteries) > and minimise the risk of a post-impact fire caused by an electrical short > circuit and hefty current from the main battery. In particular, it will > also stop the fuel pumps from potentially squirting fuel all over the > wreckage, without your having to remember to switch off your fuel pump off > separately. > > > Of course, you would never shut down the engine after parking, turn off > the master switch and forget to turn off your fuel pump! > > > Best wishes, > > > *Mike* > > Dr Mike Gregory > > Europa Club safety officer > > 01480 451655 > > 07885 355765 > > > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list- > server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *William Daniell > *Sent:* 05 April 2018 17:25 > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Europa-List: Rotax 914 Electric fuel pumps > > > I have the Europa System with one of the pumps connected direct to the > alternator and the other to the bus. > > > I get the logic of a direct connection to the alternator. > > > Why isn't the other pump connected direct to the battery so that if the > alternator fails you can switch off the buss run one pump off the battery? > > > (My EFIS has a back up battery and I carry a hand held so I can operate > with the buss off.) > > > thanks > > > Will > > > William Daniell > > LONGPORT > > +57 310 295 0744 >


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:47:07 AM PST US
    From: "Mike Gregory" <m.j.gregory@talk21.com>
    Subject: Rotax 914 Electric fuel pumps
    Will, You could achieve the objective of shedding all non-essential loads by turning off the master and having an =9Cemergency bus=9D for essential items. This does not need to be elaborate =93 it could simply be a 3-way changeover switch for your second pump: BUS-OFF-BAT instead of the usual BUS-OFF. In your case, with a mechanical pump that would normally keep the engine going unless you happen to be on full boost at the time of alternator failure, this would allow you to shed everything then switch the pump to BAT if you need it. Good luck with your trip! Best wishes, Mike From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 06 April 2018 15:11 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Electric fuel pumps Mike Naturally I would never leave the pumps on after parking because I always use and follow my checklists :-). Actually mine are quite noisy Bosch injection pumps so its probably not likely. Thanks for your comments, much appreciated and valid points. My main aim is to simplify the electrical system precisely for safety sake. I have a secondary aim which is my flight to the US. There are some quite long legs over water or jungle (which amounts to the same thing). I want to be able to maximize the electrical range by switching off all unnecessary electrical loads. For me this includes everything except what is needed to run the engine range as my back up batteries and handheld devices will take care of the flying aspect. So ideally Id like to have one buss which I can switch off to achieve this minimal electrical load. At the moment I think the only things which require separate switches are * Master * mags * Avionics 1 - ADSB XPNDR RADIO Intercom * Avionics 2 - AP servos in case they start acting strangely I would like to able to switch them off separately. * Fuel Pumps x 2 - sometimes on the ground one wants to fiddle with the EFIS without the pump draining the battery. * Landing and Anti Col lights Connecting a pump to the battery might be a moot point because sudden and complete alternators failures are very rare and also my Rotax 912 turbo has a mechanical pump which in theory should maintain up to 29 in at sea level. I have yet to test this. Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 7:32 PM, Mike Gregory <m.j.gregory@talk21.com> wrote: Hello Will, You could connect the second fuel pump direct to the battery, via a fuse/CB and switch as for the trim circuit, but why would you wish to? In the event of alternator failure, unless you have a low-capacity main battery, you have plenty of time to shed loads according to how long you need to keep airborne. In the event of a forced landing and turning off the main bus with the master switch, the electric trim is kept operational to avoid heavy stick forces, but this logic does not apply to the fuel pump. If the engine has stopped and you are making a forced landing, a single action to turn off the master switch before contact with the ground will kill all electrics (except the trim and your built-in standby batteries) and minimise the risk of a post-impact fire caused by an electrical short circuit and hefty current from the main battery. In particular, it will also stop the fuel pumps from potentially squirting fuel all over the wreckage, without your having to remember to switch off your fuel pump off separately. Of course, you would never shut down the engine after parking, turn off the master switch and forget to turn off your fuel pump! Best wishes, Mike Dr Mike Gregory Europa Club safety officer 01480 451655 07885 355765 From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 05 April 2018 17:25 Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Electric fuel pumps I have the Europa System with one of the pumps connected direct to the alternator and the other to the bus. I get the logic of a direct connection to the alternator. Why isn't the other pump connected direct to the battery so that if the alternator fails you can switch off the buss run one pump off the battery? (My EFIS has a back up battery and I carry a hand held so I can operate with the buss off.) thanks Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744


    Message 4


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    Time: 12:31:25 PM PST US
    From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Rotax 914 Electric fuel pumps
    Excellent, thanks Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Fri, Apr 6, 2018, 12:50 Mike Gregory <m.j.gregory@talk21.com> wrote: > Will, > > > You could achieve the objective of shedding all non-essential loads by > turning off the master and having an =9Cemergency bus=9D for essential items. > This does not need to be elaborate =93 it could simply be a 3-way c hangeover > switch for your second pump: BUS-OFF-BAT instead of the usual BUS-OFF. > > > In your case, with a mechanical pump that would normally keep the engine > going unless you happen to be on full boost at the time of alternator > failure, this would allow you to shed everything then switch the pump to > BAT if you need it. > > > Good luck with your trip! > > > Best wishes, > > > *Mike* > > > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *William Daniell > *Sent:* 06 April 2018 15:11 > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Electric fuel pumps > > > Mike > > > Naturally I would never leave the pumps on after parking because I always > use and follow my checklists :-). Actually mine are quite noisy Bosch > injection pumps so its probably not likely. > > > Thanks for your comments, much appreciated and valid points. > > > My main aim is to simplify the electrical system precisely for safety > sake. I have a secondary aim which is my flight to the US. There are so me > quite long legs over water or jungle (which amounts to the same thing). I > want to be able to maximize the electrical range by switching off all > unnecessary electrical loads. For me this includes everything except wha t > is needed to run the engine range as my back up batteries and handheld > devices will take care of the flying aspect. > > > So ideally Id like to have one buss which I can switch off to achieve thi s > minimal electrical load. At the moment I think the only things which > require separate switches are > > - Master > - mags > - Avionics 1 - ADSB XPNDR RADIO Intercom > - Avionics 2 - AP servos in case they start acting strangely I > would like to able to switch them off separately. > - Fuel Pumps x 2 - sometimes on the ground one wants to fiddle with > the EFIS without the pump draining the battery. > - Landing and Anti Col lights > > Connecting a pump to the battery might be a moot point because sudden and > complete alternators failures are very rare and also my Rotax 912 turbo h as > a mechanical pump which in theory should maintain up to 29 in at sea > level. I have yet to test this. > > > Will > > > William Daniell > > LONGPORT > > +57 310 295 0744 > > > On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 7:32 PM, Mike Gregory <m.j.gregory@talk21.com> > wrote: > > Hello Will, > > > You could connect the second fuel pump direct to the battery, via a > fuse/CB and switch as for the trim circuit, but why would you wish to? > > > In the event of alternator failure, unless you have a low-capacity main > battery, you have plenty of time to shed loads according to how long you > need to keep airborne. In the event of a forced landing and turning off t he > main bus with the master switch, the electric trim is kept operational to > avoid heavy stick forces, but this logic does not apply to the fuel pump. > > > If the engine has stopped and you are making a forced landing, a single > action to turn off the master switch before contact with the ground will > kill all electrics (except the trim and your built-in standby batteries) > and minimise the risk of a post-impact fire caused by an electrical short > circuit and hefty current from the main battery. In particular, it will > also stop the fuel pumps from potentially squirting fuel all over the > wreckage, without your having to remember to switch off your fuel pump of f > separately. > > > Of course, you would never shut down the engine after parking, turn off > the master switch and forget to turn off your fuel pump! > > > Best wishes, > > > *Mike* > > Dr Mike Gregory > > Europa Club safety officer > > 01480 451655 > > 07885 355765 > > > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *William Daniell > *Sent:* 05 April 2018 17:25 > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Europa-List: Rotax 914 Electric fuel pumps > > > I have the Europa System with one of the pumps connected direct to the > alternator and the other to the bus. > > > I get the logic of a direct connection to the alternator. > > > Why isn't the other pump connected direct to the battery so that if the > alternator fails you can switch off the buss run one pump off the battery ? > > > (My EFIS has a back up battery and I carry a hand held so I can operate > with the buss off.) > > > thanks > > > Will > > > William Daniell > > LONGPORT > > +57 310 295 0744 > >




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