---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/22/18: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:36 AM - Amp fluctuation (William Daniell) 2. 03:34 PM - Re: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at FL200? (Bud Yerly) 3. 04:07 PM - FW: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at FL200? (Bud Yerly) 4. 04:11 PM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__Amp_fluctuation? () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:32 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Europa-List: Amp fluctuation There is a bit of information on this issue on the web but I wanted to see if there is any further experience/wisdom. My Dynon ammeter normally shows 8 amps once the battery has finished charging - say after about 30 mins of flight. However occasionally it just rises through 70 amps until the instrument is covered by a red X. The solution hitherto has been to cycle the ALT. This has only happened on the ground until today. I assumed hithertoo it was a bug in the Dynon system. Today I have different symptoms - an increase to 25+ amps and then back down again. And in flight. I doubt very much whether the rotax generator can produce 25A! The Alt has a 25A CB on it as well. Volts remain stable at 13.4 My Dynon has the factory supplied shunt. I plan to check the connections first especially with the regulator. Any other ideas? Will ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:26 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at FL200? Roland, 12AY has a trigear speed kit, has a fairly smooth finish, a stock 914 early version with the old TCU (at the time), no intercooler or modifications. Equipped with OAT, Fuel Flow, Fuel pressure, MP, EGT and the standard press ure and temp instruments, I am pretty sure of the Any club of a prop on a 914 will go to 20,000 and hold altitude at 5000 RPM . Even at very high OATs I tested at in Florida in July of 2015. Back with my old TCU and carbs with some carb problems I did the following with a 64 inch Warp Drive: At my 100% stop at 31 inches and 5500 RPM I indicated at 18K 118KIAS and ab out 160 KTAS with a warp drive FF 6.7. Pulled back to 5000 RPM and 28 inches I indicated 105 at 140KTAS FF in the 6.2 range. Fuel flows you give are suspect. The fact you have no Fuel Pressure, OAT an d MP reported, I believe you should make sure your engine is doing as adver tised. If I can maintain 100 KIAS up to 18K with 4800 and 28 inches, (I=92ve done it a few times loafing around) I suspect your plane should also. The Whirl wind and Sensenich blades are better than the Warp Drives but as I said abo ve, any club of a prop can do 20,000. Regards, Bud Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Roland Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 8:44:09 AM Subject: Europa-List: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at FL200? Hi Europa Folks, maybe some of you (especially in the US?) with a Rotax 914-powered Trigear can help me evaluate the high altitude performance of my bird. It is an XS TG 914 (no Intercooler) with Airmaster CS-prop. On two flights yesterday (DA around 20.000 ft - ISA+10=C2=B0C) at a mass of around 560kg ( 1235lbs) my Europa did 105KIAS at WOT and 5500RPM (I have no MP-gauge). Alt hough still climbing with around 500FPM at 75KIAS I instantly loose altitud e when transiting to Level flight and handling feels quite a bit "spongy". Erich Trombley posted a picture of his EFIS schowing 126KIAS with his Mono N28ET at a DA of 19500ft at 5310RPM. The fuel consumption up there was only about 21 l/h (5,5 GPH), so that my a ssumption is simply, that the 914 can't deliver the appropriate power for t he heavier and more draggy Trigear for better performance. At FL100 at MCP and a FF of 26 l/h (7 GPH) I see 130KIAS. Any idea what to expect up there at FL200? Regards Roland PH-ZTI XS TG 914 Read this topic online here: https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D479436%23479436&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9d46 b82e899648077f4908d5a5f3c5fa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6 36597388767937843&sdata=gpGRG4aEL2zXsRlT77nDSDY%2Fjnd4u3QfOjxo4pgCXV4%3D& reserved=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9d46b82 e899648077f4908d5a5f3c5fa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6365 97388767937843&sdata=4%2B1IqH8Sy%2BWEwJcqzl4bTRkm6Fjf3631cP79VDvdQL0%3D&r eserved=0 F%2Fforums.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9d46b82e899648077f4908d5a5f3c5 fa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636597388767937843&sdata= 0O2x%2B83XeLc7iuSa8BWL4cQcs4O5hpTe8g5LySSrNtg%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwiki.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9d46b82e899648077f4908d5a5f3c5fa %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636597388767937843&sdata=U5 SQNc6EZJihzZTot0T%2FcjBejEuYWPEy3miXhi%2FcklA%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9d46b82e899648077f 4908d5a5f3c5fa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636597388767937 843&sdata=oRiVmAMiEtkRdlTB6TG8q%2BaoPGFBqHURB93A1C2%2FJug%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:29 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: FW: Europa-List: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at FL200? First paragraph and some changes went unsent for some reason, probably beca use I was late for supper and hit send instead of save. Extra info added b elow. Bud Sent from Mail for Window s 10 From: Bud Yerly Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 6:37 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of stea m at FL200? Roland, 12AY has a trigear speed kit, has a fairly smooth finish, a stock 914 early version with the old TCU (at the time), no intercooler or modifications. Equipped with OAT, Fuel Flow, Fuel pressure, MP, EGT and the standard press ure and temp instruments, I am pretty sure of the instrumentation and I kno w that my TCU was showing some Temp cutback due to the high OAT (it was 5C at 18K). My TCU at the time was the early 4.3 and my Temp sensor in the Ai rbox was the old style. Sea level max MP was 34. Prop pitch was set at fi ne of 5650 at sea level. Course pitch was 30 degrees and one could dive at Vne and the prop would hold 5000 or cruise at max speed limit. The normal check on tests for me is a 1000 MSL check at 5500 RPM. My 914 with the wa rp drive blades on my Airmaster would do 137 KIAS with the old TCU. Note, I upgraded my TCU and put on two new carbs in 2016 and have been happy with the balance, TCU ops and the fact it is easier to monitor the TCU and engi ne performance with a laptop. First on the prop: Any club of a prop blade on a Europa with a 914 will go to 20,000 and hold altitude at 5000 RPM. Even at very high OATs I tested at in Florida in Jul y of 2015. Back with my old TCU and carbs with some carb problems I did the following with a 64 inch Warp Drive on an Airmaster: At my 100% stop at 31 inches and 5500 RPM I indicated at 18K 118KIAS and ab out 160 KTAS with a warp drive FF 6.7. Pulled back to 5000 RPM and 28 inches I indicated 105 at 140KTAS FF in the 6.2 range. Fuel flows you give are suspect. The fact you have no Fuel Pressure, OAT an d MP reported, I believe you should make sure your engine is doing as adver tised. If you have no speed kit, that may be a bit of a problems as the Eu ropa trigear without a well done speed kit is a dog. If I can maintain 100 KIAS up to 18K with 4800 and 28 inches, (I=92ve done it a few times loafing around) I suspect your plane should also. The Whirl wind and Sensenich blades are better than the Warp Drives but as I said abo ve, any club of a prop can do 20,000 and stay above 100 KIAS even that high ... Eric Trombley has a 60 inch Warp Drive blade on his mono and can easil y cruise that high. Regards, Bud Yerly Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Roland Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 8:44:09 AM Subject: Europa-List: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at FL200? Hi Europa Folks, maybe some of you (especially in the US?) with a Rotax 914-powered Trigear can help me evaluate the high altitude performance of my bird. It is an XS TG 914 (no Intercooler) with Airmaster CS-prop. On two flights yesterday (DA around 20.000 ft - ISA+10=C2=B0C) at a mass of around 560kg ( 1235lbs) my Europa did 105KIAS at WOT and 5500RPM (I have no MP-gauge). Alt hough still climbing with around 500FPM at 75KIAS I instantly loose altitud e when transiting to Level flight and handling feels quite a bit "spongy". Erich Trombley posted a picture of his EFIS schowing 126KIAS with his Mono N28ET at a DA of 19500ft at 5310RPM. The fuel consumption up there was only about 21 l/h (5,5 GPH), so that my a ssumption is simply, that the 914 can't deliver the appropriate power for t he heavier and more draggy Trigear for better performance. At FL100 at MCP and a FF of 26 l/h (7 GPH) I see 130KIAS. Any idea what to expect up there at FL200? 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