---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/22/18: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:24 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Carburetor - Possible to purchase a few O-Rings? (Remi Guerner) 2. 04:36 AM - Re: Airmaster thrust bearing witness marks (Remi Guerner) 3. 06:31 AM - Re: Airmaster thrust bearing witness marks (jonathanmilbank) 4. 11:19 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Carburetor - Possible to purchase a few O-Rings? (graeme bird) 5. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: Airmaster thrust bearing witness marks (ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:54 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rotax 912 Carburetor - Possible to purchase a few O-Rings? From: "Remi Guerner" Graeme, I suggest you do not fix anything. On a Rotax engine, the symptom you described is typical of carb ice. If the atmospherics conditions were not favoring icing, then the cause of icing was water in the fuel. Regards Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480294#480294 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:17 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Airmaster thrust bearing witness marks From: "Remi Guerner" Jonathan, I had a similar symptom on my prop years ago. I questioned Airmaster and they answered that it was not critical (see below). I have 1100 hours on this prop now and there are a few more scratches on the ferrule. I am considering replacing the blade/ferrule assembly in a near future. Regards Remi Hi Remi The ferrules are not anodised, but are painted. This is to ensure the surface is not hardened and made susceptible to fatigue failure. This is relatively soft and gets scratched by the thrust bearings that slide against it. FEA analysis has shown this area to be of relatively low stress compared to the adjoining radiused area which is the area that should be inspected. Even thought the scratching is visually obvious, it is not subject to corrosion since the area is surrounded by grease. We have had no reports of any failures from this scratching. Our advise at this stage is that the scratching from the thrust bearings is not of concern, however keep an eye on this when you do your inspections and let us know if you feel the surface scuffing deteriorates. Regards, Martin Eskildsen GM Airmaster Propellers Ltd Phone: +64 9 8360065 Fax: +64 9 8360069 View our web-site at www.propellor.com E-mail us at support@propellor.com or sales@propellor.com -----Original Message----- From: Remi Guerner [mailto:air.guerner@orange.fr] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 7:30 AM Subject: Questions to Product support Dear sirs, I have a few questions regarding discrepancies discovered during inspection of my propeller today. The ferrule is marked (black anodization removed showing bare aluminum alloy) probably due to the thrust bearing and retention nut rubbing on the surface of the ferrule. See attached pictures of blades # 1 and 3. The ferrule on blade 2 looks the same as on blade 3. The ferrules are marked on about one third to one half of the circumference. The marked area is not deep but it can be felt with your finger nail. The prop is an AP332 serial 386 with AC200 controller serial 486 Blades number: N14998 Installed on my Europa by myself in April 2006 Engine: Rotax 912ULSFR Prop total time 267 hours No damage history Maintenance done according to the Airmaster Manual Everything else on the prop is ok: no problem in flight, no play in the blades, no humidity, no corrosion. Questions: 1. What may have caused this wear after a so short time? 2. How to determine if it is safe or not? 3. How to avoid the wear to continue? 4. How to protect the the bare aluminum alloy? Any advice wil be welcome Looking fwd to read you soon. Regards Remi Guerner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480295#480295 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:16 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Airmaster thrust bearing witness marks From: "jonathanmilbank" Hi Remi, A couple of hours before your reply appeared, I cut and pasted my post above to Martin Eskildsen at Airmaster NZ. If I'd seen your reply first I probably wouldn't have done that, because Martin has already given you a satisfactory answer. As I've already mentioned, I observed similar marks on my previous sets of blades and they were more obvious with deeper grooves around some of the ferrule circumferences. Thus far I've never become aware of anyone in the world making it known that they had to change blades because of this phenomenon. I wonder if Martin will have anything different to suggest, but I guess not. I'm comforted by the fact that the ferrule material is quite thick under the thrust bearing witness lines/grooves and that corrosion in that area would be very unlikely due to the presence of grease. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480300#480300 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:30 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rotax 912 Carburetor - Possible to purchase a few O-Rings? From: "graeme bird" Thanks Remi, handy to know that. I'll check the other carb bowl and collect some fuel from the tank drains and just keep my eye on it a while before any drastic measures. About 18 hours ago I changed the water, fuel and oil pipes; I hadn't really thought through that after that I would need another shake down with several cowl off checks and filter changes to make sure it had all settled down; I don't want to do drastic things and have to start that again. Just to have to hand I bought a set of bing carb gaskets, rings, diaphrams from motobins 16 11 1 254 774. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus, SmartA3 325 hours & 6 years on the Mono, 930 total g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480315#480315 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:52 PM PST US From: "ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Airmaster thrust bearing witness marks Similar to DUC, who don't consider that a cracked ferrule is significant (and decline to replace under warranty). Duncan McF. ----Original Message---- From: air.guerner@orange.fr Subj: Europa-List: Re: Airmaster thrust bearing witness marks Jonathan, I had a similar symptom on my prop years ago. I questioned Airmaster and they answered that it was not critical (see below). I have 1100 hours on this prop now and there are a few more scratches on the ferrule. I am considering replacing the blade/ferrule assembly in a near future. Regards Remi Hi Remi The ferrules are not anodised, but are painted. This is to ensure the surface is not hardened and made susceptible to fatigue failure. This is relatively soft and gets scratched by the thrust bearings that slide against it. FEA analysis has shown this area to be of relatively low stress compared to the adjoining radiused area which is the area that should be inspected. Even thought the scratching is visually obvious, it is not subject to corrosion since the area is surrounded by grease. We have had no reports of any failures from this scratching. Our advise at this stage is that the scratching from the thrust bearings is not of concern, however keep an eye on this when you do your inspections and let us know if you feel the surface scuffing deteriorates. Regards, Martin Eskildsen GM Airmaster Propellers Ltd Phone: +64 9 8360065 Fax: +64 9 8360069 View our web-site at www.propellor.com E-mail us at support@propellor.com or sales@propellor.com -----Original Message----- From: Remi Guerner [mailto:air.guerner@orange.fr] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 7:30 AM Subject: Questions to Product support Dear sirs, I have a few questions regarding discrepancies discovered during inspection of my propeller today. The ferrule is marked (black anodization removed showing bare aluminum alloy) probably due to the thrust bearing and retention nut rubbing on the surface of the ferrule. See attached pictures of blades # 1 and 3. The ferrule on blade 2 looks the same as on blade 3. The ferrules are marked on about one third to one half of the circumference. The marked area is not deep but it can be felt with your finger nail. The prop is an AP332 serial 386 with AC200 controller serial 486 Blades number: N14998 Installed on my Europa by myself in April 2006 Engine: Rotax 912ULSFR Prop total time 267 hours No damage history Maintenance done according to the Airmaster Manual Everything else on the prop is ok: no problem in flight, no play in the blades, no humidity, no corrosion. Questions: 1. What may have caused this wear after a so short time? 2. How to determine if it is safe or not? 3. How to avoid the wear to continue? 4. How to protect the the bare aluminum alloy? Any advice wil be welcome Looking fwd to read you soon. Regards Remi Guerner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480295#480295 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.