---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/03/18: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Management (Bud Yerly) 2. 08:02 AM - Re: Gurgling (burping) (Bud Yerly) 3. 09:09 AM - Static problem? (h&jeuropa) 4. 10:11 AM - Re: Static problem? (Robert Borger) 5. 11:46 AM - Re: Gurgling (burping) (JonathanMilbank) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:16 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Management I couldn=92t agree more with your comments on the EI 5 fuel totalizer with differential module. I have a sight gauge as depicted on my website. I have had a capacitance gauge from GRT / Princeton I have the EI 5 fuel totalizer. Painfully, I calibrated my tank (marks on the tank, sight gauge, and a capa citance sender. Capacitance: If I change fuel from AV Gas to Premium Auto, it read in err or. I have marks on the outside of my probe for calibration so I could ben ch check it, it reads different based on ethanol content, or none, MOGAS or AV Gas as bench checked and in the aircraft. What a pain. If there is to o much ethanol (10%) or water it kills my capacitance probe. I replaced it , now it is intermittent and I again in frustration I pulled it and plugged the hole in the tank top with a bolt. Great trend indicator when it worke d, I either had gas or not, and nothing accurate in between beyond the firs t fuel type change. Bad luck I suppose. The Europa resistance gauge is f airly accurate as it is designed for the tank shape, but again, is a trend indicator and not able to be calibrated by the builder. My sight gauge has been re-plumbed to prevent fuel trapping as my vent side of the gauge resides in between the tank and the fiberglass module top. I f a bit of fuel trapped in that vent side doesn=92t drain down, it moves my gauge by the size of the trapped fuel. Now with my slight gauge re-plumb, it runs almost completely down hill and is damned adequate. However, I s till have to open the cap, blow in the vent nipple, and then the gauge is accurate after every fill. I now run the plumbing completely down hill and fuel trapping is still possible during steep climbs and won=92t clear unti l back to level flight for a while. The EI FP5 I own was calibrated out of the box. I have two flow scans for the 914, one on feed and the other on return. If I put 15 gallons in the t ank, the EI reads zero as the pumps cavitate. In my building experience, I followed convention on using one fuel cube/flo w scan for the Jabiru or Rotax 912 series. Since the Jab has no return it is fairly accurate and of course the return, which is unmetered in the Rota x 912 series, is an estimate on fuel at best. It does give a total which i s lower than actual, which is OK, I guess. A couple of years ago we did do a return on the Rotax 912 (80 HP) on Creigh ton Smiths aircraft and it has proven quite reliable. His unit was a Fligh t Data Systems unit called the FC 10 with dual fuel flows (red cubes). It worked very well even with the very low fuel flows of the 912. I had neve r heard of Flight Data Systems and the unit is a bit on the cheap looking s ide, but it works well for less than my EI 5FPL with differential module. For those with the GRT EIS engine monitor, it can be rewired to allow two r ed cubes or flow scans if not purchased with fuel flow in mind. It is also adjustable but time consuming to get dead on unless you let the factory se t it. Dynon I understand is using the red cube and my RV friends seem to l ike it on the O-320. The LSA guys with only one cube are not impressed wit h the accuracy on the 912S and those with two report it is OK, but not able to calibrate it for some reason. I never researched it. Bottom line, I have had four fuel quantity determining possibilities: My watch ( I have 3 hours at low cruise ((4.5/hr)) and 2.5 at high cruise (5.5/hr)) My sight gauge. My EI fuel flow, and time until empty based on the amount I put in and inpu t. My now defunct capacitance panel gauge (which was just replaced with dual E GT) has been hit or miss. I am the department of redundant redundancy on fuel and have found the most accurate fuel device is my fuel flow and a watch. Regards, Bud Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of graeme bird Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 2:44:54 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Management My conclusion was the same and I went on a journey with this whole thing: First I moved the pipe to come up between the seats; this has proved useful for seeing how much fuel I have when in the hangar before I fly although s ometimes an air bubble in the and fuel in the vent for the pipe means the r eading is misleading. Its affected by where the plane is parked - inclinati on so I check it at the same place in the hangar. Occasionally I have used it to second check in flight. When the fuel is low (below 18ltrs), its hard to see. Then I installed a capacitive sensor in the tank with a gauge. This is kind of useful as a second check and reliable but the scale is way off due to t he tank shape. Its also hard to get a good seal on the sender flange. I kee p meaning to add a lineariser circuit on it. Then I have a differential totaliser (EI 5PL or something); this has been g reat and a pretty reliable indication of state, flow economy etc (so long as fuel added is entered correctly). I tend to fill to the brim regularly t o be absolutely sure of state. So with the three indicators I got to a reasonable level of confidence. Not sure i'd want to be without any of them now. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 a xis AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus, SmartA3 325 hours & 6 years on the Mono, 930 total g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D480546%23480546&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81e9 b4e0005b492422cf08d5c78ba9a4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6 36634325008274906&sdata=KDQyvIk2y1QfYfDSHuotqfvcVJq9GFbm9oJZAV87ZsU%3D&re served=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81e9b4e 0005b492422cf08d5c78ba9a4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6366 34325008274906&sdata=9g3BbD4C5ryxDfiV%2Fivn3M7L8GK0EyH4SUGZl77ItlY%3D&res erved=0 F%2Fforums.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81e9b4e0005b492422cf08d5c78ba9 a4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636634325008274906&sdata= v9569lrTiTLhZzcxwFHEsEyLZlBIQDr837j2DyEQ7ic%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwiki.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81e9b4e0005b492422cf08d5c78ba9a4 %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636634325008274906&sdata=3S Zej1AioLVaB4V7phJEdNy1aYiOK03IJuSUPmqQXW0%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81e9b4e0005b492422 cf08d5c78ba9a4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636634325008274 906&sdata=AMLOQDkXtGKo4WVYnV0FN04gaUtnsBrOELc9TIg1IZ4%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:34 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Gurgling (burping) Jonathan, It is not uncommon for the oil level in the tank to drain down overnight. Even on a new engine. The tank can drain into the crankcase two ways on a 912UL (S). If the tank is full, and the return line has oil in it, it siph ons down into the crankcase until the siphon is broken. That is only a sma ll amount of oil on the dipstick. The other is through the feed line, through the oil cooler and into the oil pump. The oil pump has tight clearances, but thin oil will drain quite ra pidly through the pump into the crankcase via the many feed passages. You are right, it could be a seal in the oil pump was not changed on your rebui ld or the oil pump shaft has worn beyond limits (check service bulletin 912 -032). This internal seal leak doesn=92t show normally, until the oil pump case to pump seal begins to leak. The case to oil pump is just sealed wit h 515. This is an easy fix and all external and right up front for your me chanic. So Look. On the other hand, you would have low oil pressure if your pressure relief spring/ball were stuck so I doubt that is a problem. Lastly, if you have a feed oil line leak at the tank, or internal in the pu mp, air is introduced into your feed line to the oil pump. This prevents o il getting to the pump, but doesn=92t really affect the burp. If your oil pressure comes up quickly and when you pull the plugs and spin the engine b y hand, you get oil pressure, that is not a factor. That is a difficult is sue to trace. The only way to check is try using light air pressure on the oil tank overflow / vent line and remove listen for the oil moving or remo ve the oil feed at the pump and check for air. I really doubt that is a pro blem. Note: I found Mobile one synthetic drained quickly and the Aeroshell Sport plus 4 less. I would not be concerned. BUT: 50 blades on a 912S is quite a lot of spinning. (Normal for my old 914.) If you pause on each compression, it should only be about 10 blades of spin ning to get a gurgle, but that is only based on new (er) 912S engines. The 912 and 914 tend to take more spinning to the verge of a heart attack on m ine. Do check for static leaks on your fittings as a Rotax will not leak oil ext ernally unless something is wrong. If you have oil anywhere on the outside of your engine, oil pump, gearbox, or oil cooler, please investigate and s olve it. If all is high and dry, it is probably just that shaft oil seal o n the oil pump is leaking internally. This is not a huge problem, but warr ants checking. Best Regards, Bud Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of jonathanmilbank Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 5:53:47 PM Subject: Europa-List: Gurgling (burping) > My 912ULS engine has done 250 hours since complete strip-down and rebuild a fter I bought it from an acknowledged Rotax engine expert. The three others who share the Europa with me are all happy with how sweetly it runs. The c ompressions were measured very recently and are excellent (close to 200 psi ). The oil pressure is good being in the vicinity of 4 bar. BUT.... Nine times out of ten the oil drains quickly (overnight) from the tank to a level below the flat on the dipstick. This wasn't always so and has become worse over time. It used to take about a dozen compressions done quite slo wly to push the oil back into the tank, while these days it can often take 50 or more compressions. Why? My supposition is that the oil escapes past the oil pump and the rate of es cape depends on the position of the pump lobes when at rest. So if the oil pressure remains good in flight, what's changed? Perhaps the oil pressure r elief valve is sticking in some way? Your experience and knowledge of likely causes would be gratefully received .. Read this topic online here: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D480527%23480527&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3d65 8908e052457c65e808d5c6785195%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6 36633142417666692&sdata=hMIfL5dMQonZdtqvefaTxJDC7hsrnjywmpu%2BwZNmtDA%3D& reserved=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3d65890 8e052457c65e808d5c6785195%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6366 33142417822944&sdata=JvekXzI0ulHysaX%2FODq3XxP%2B%2F4FYaqi3Yj%2Bvcgy2b%2B Y%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fforums.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3d658908e052457c65e808d5c67851 95%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636633142417822944&sdata= bHKdinAh%2FcO2%2FJKX%2BVeVNNEWx0recm3pP6mpbZJTyCs%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwiki.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3d658908e052457c65e808d5c6785195 %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636633142417822944&sdata=YH TCUzUK%2FxeOZQlBKQS7HDWvZMmtu2kWol3yPS%2BztvE%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3d658908e052457c65 e808d5c6785195%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636633142417822 944&sdata=SLnhhGEn%2FyvEFMqqI2pHgYIij6YNzplrGEJDwgbUBX0%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:01 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Static problem? From: "h&jeuropa" Two or three years ago our Garmin GMA 340 audio panel was damaged apparently by nearby lightning strike - we saw flash in far distance and then had to use copilot ptt. Garmin repaired for $600 and said it was destroyed by lightning. On our trip to Petit Jean we were in some precipitation and getting bounced. ADSB was showing lots of colors but it was just a short distance and ATC had opposite direction VFR traffic above us. Suddenly, no audio again. When we were in the clear we found we could transmit by powering off the GMA 340 and hear ATC with it powered on but in PA mode. We talked to SteinAir and purchased a new Garmin GMA 240 audio panel partly in hopes that the newer technology might be more resistant to being damaged and a new 240 was about the cost of repair of the 340. Stein, the owner, suggested we might want to add a single static wick to each wingtip and the top of the tail and connect them all together to our common ground point using #20 or so wire. The idea to drain off built up charge. Has anyone else had a similar problem and whats the opinion on static wicks? Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480604#480604 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static problem? From: Robert Borger Jim & Heather, I havent had that problem so this is all theory from a 70 year old physicist. This is a really complex problem. You are flying a plastic, non-conductive airframe. Flying it through the air is like rubbing a plastic rod with a piece of fur. Its going to generate a static charge. The charge resides on the outer surface of the skin. No charge on the inter surface. Makes the skin of the aircraft like a big capacitor. Because the airframe is non-conductive that charge isnt going to move around much until it reaches a breakdown voltage somewhere and you can get a local discharge. Like through a an audio panel. Static wicks out on the tips of the wings and empennage, even when connected with conductive media to the ground, will only dissipate the charge locally around the wick. (Im not sure how well) And, I guess, maybe around the near field of the conductor if it were bare wire. Would those wicks dissipate the charge that took out the audio panel? Maybe, but probably not. Might those wicks reduce the overall charge and prevent a charge build up to ensure that there was never sufficient charge to harm the electronics? Maybe, maybe not. And, arent wicks supposed to dissipate the static charge off the airframe into the air, not to aircraft ground? The idea being NOT to get the charge buildup in the ground. I really dont see any benefit from static wicks on a plastic airframe. Perhaps a better answer would be from Bob N. our electronics guru. He probably has far more direct experience with this type of issue. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (130 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules Prop. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jun 3, 2018, at 11:08 AM, h&jeuropa wrote: Two or three years ago our Garmin GMA 340 audio panel was damaged apparently by nearby lightning strike - we saw flash in far distance and then had to use copilot ptt. Garmin repaired for $600 and said it was destroyed by lightning. On our trip to Petit Jean we were in some precipitation and getting bounced. ADSB was showing lots of colors but it was just a short distance and ATC had opposite direction VFR traffic above us. Suddenly, no audio again. When we were in the clear we found we could transmit by powering off the GMA 340 and hear ATC with it powered on but in PA mode. We talked to SteinAir and purchased a new Garmin GMA 240 audio panel partly in hopes that the newer technology might be more resistant to being damaged and a new 240 was about the cost of repair of the 340. Stein, the owner, suggested we might want to add a single static wick to each wingtip and the top of the tail and connect them all together to our common ground point using #20 or so wire. The idea to drain off built up charge. Has anyone else had a similar problem and whats the opinion on static wicks? Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480604#480604 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:24 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Gurgling (burping) From: "JonathanMilbank" Bud, The outside of my engine and the oil cooler and tank are all free from all traces of leaks and the new hoses fitted a year ago are tightly clamped, so no air leaks. I've taken your advice and looked at Service Bulletin 912-032, so this is the avenue that I'm probably going to investigate. Thanks very much. Best wishes, Jonathan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480611#480611 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.