---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/23/18: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:10 AM - Re: First Flight (BobD) 2. 03:13 AM - Re: Vista ventilators (spcialeffects) 3. 07:46 AM - Re: Vista ventilators (Phil B) 4. 11:48 AM - Return of unused fuel to reserve tank (Europa48) 5. 06:48 PM - Re: Mtow+ (Bud Yerly) 6. 08:11 PM - Re: Return of unused fuel to reserve tank (Bud Yerly) 7. 08:12 PM - Re: First Flight (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:10:42 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: First Flight From: "BobD" Congratulations on your first flight. A superb looking machine. -------- Bob Dawson Europa XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ || Dynon Skyview || PilotAware || SmartAss3 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481130#481130 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:13:34 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vista ventilators From: "spcialeffects" Hi Phil. Have you considered the ultimate vents? They work very well Frank Xuereb Kit#165 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481131#481131 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:01 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vista ventilators From: "Phil B" My post should have read " I would prefer to mount them [the Vista vents] in the quarter lights [lower corners of the windscreen] but have been told that the windshield is a stressed item." Unfortunately the quarter was written as a figure and did not come through as such on the Matronics list. -------- Phil B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481139#481139 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:54 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Return of unused fuel to reserve tank From: "Europa48" Hi Does anyone know what the normal rate of fuel return is from a Europa Xs main fuel tank to the reserve is? Is it necessary to use the reserve side first before switching to the main tank to allow space for unused fuel to be returned, or does any excess just go to the main tank. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481148#481148 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:56 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mtow+ Will, The maximum I have taken off with is 1600 lbs. Gary Leinberger has also. I do not recommend normal operations beyond 1450 for anything resembling no rmal operations. I have a number of clients that operate at 1450 lbs. take off weight. To ferry an aircraft, or one time flight in the best of conditions, conside r using the following guide lines: The CG should be narrowed slightly to 59 inches to 62inches above 1450 lbs takeoff weight until sure of operations with a further aft CG is verified. . I flight tested my aircraft and a couple others (including motor gliders) a t these higher weights and found if balanced about 61-62 inches at takeoff weight, the handling is quite acceptable and very comfortable on cross coun try as the fuel burns off to minimum fuel. Most Europa aircraft with prope r Annex E full control throws will fly even at the max aft CG up to 1450 po unds, Due to loading limits of the baggage bay, I have not been able to loa d a 1600 pound aircraft to CGs beyond 62 aft... Example: No other aircraft in my chapter could fly the larger linemen on the football team, so I did with full fuel. It was the first time I rotate d and nothing happened. But it flew well as I had been there before and wa s confident in my and my aircrafts ability. The CG was 59 inches with the 350 pound pax, 190 pound flight bag, and full 100 pounds of fuel and a 10 pound flight bag and handling was adequate but the nose was definitely heav ier than normal but flare out was possible at the higher weights Remember: Anything forward of 59 inches at 1450 pounds, it gets a bit too nose heavy to enjoy, and keeping the nose wheel off during landing is quite difficult for some. On to some guidelines: Using simple ratio and proportions one can easily stay within the design st ress limits of the aircraft. The gear are good to 1600 pounds on a smooth landing as the gear were originally the RV 4 gear designed for a GW of 1500 lbs. for normal operations. Our gear socket in the trigear may get wallow ed out a bit if ops on rough fields is done for many hours but it takes a l icking. I use the following G limits for over gross on a placard and in the POH: STRUCTURAL LIMITS: +3.8g / -1.9g at 1370 lbs. Max recommended: +3.5g / -1.79g at 1450 lbs. Max overload condition: +3.25g / -1.6g at 1600 lbs. The CG Range should be reduced by one inch to 59 max forward, 61.5 to 62 ma x aft above 1370 pounds unless tested. Remember the stall speed increases with weight. By calculation: Stall Clean / Dirty: 45/49 at 1370 48/52 at 1450 49/56 at 1600 Warning: The pre-stall characteristics may be significantly reduced as GW is increase beyond 1370 and at CGs move near the forward or aft limit. Handling characteristics should be practiced at higher takeoff and landing weights to determine the aircrafts handling characteristics. Some ideas fo r takeoff and landing testing at these higher loadings follows: Takeoff: Lower flaps to 10 to 15 degrees max for takeoff. (Trigear) (Reduces that old sinking feeling if pulled out of ground effect.) Rotation speed is higher for the trigear and mono. Once pitch is set for takeoff with the nose wheel off the pavement (Trigear ), or slight tail down pressure (Mono), do not over-rotate maintain a low p itch angle. Takeoff speeds are increased so plan accordingly. Maintain pitch and allow the aircraft to fly off the runway at a shallow an gle. Accelerate in ground effect until 65 Knots and reduce flaps approaching 75 Knots and climb at a shallow angle until desired climb speed is achieved. Consider climbing at 80-90Knots for additional cooling. Landing Pattern: Increase approach speed to 65 to70 minimum using half to full flaps. Note: If using an aux tank in the baggage area, after the fuel is burned o ff and with minimum fuel in the main tank, the CG may be quite far forward. Do a complete analysis of the CG and its shift with fuel loading prior to attempting flight outside the original POH guidelines. Minimum speed on final should not be reduced below 60 until in ground effec t with a forward CG. Warning: If approaching steeply at 55 Knots and at reduced power setting t he aircraft will develop a significant sink rate that cannot be recovered f rom at forward CGs, idle power and low airspeeds. Practice like you are going to fly and you will fly like you practiced. Regards, Bud Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of William Daniell Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 7:46:54 AM Subject: Europa-List: Mtow+ What is the maximum mtow that anyone has flown with? I am looking at the trip to usa. Aircraft without fuel weighs 930. Co pilot, pilot and 17 gals weigh 470. My aux tank with pump and 10.5 gal s weighs 75 lbs will be strapped to the wing tie bar up against the main ta nk. So we have 930+545=1485. Add liferaft 8 lbs and odd and ends and itll b e a smidgen over 1500. I have flown with 1400lbs taking off at 8500 so I am sure that itll take of f. What the opinion of the group on this? Anyone have any experience? Does a nyone foresee issues? Will ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:24 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Return of unused fuel to reserve tank The hump in the tank bottom allows the returned fuel to enter the tank rese rve side and spill over to the main side until the fuel level drops to abou t 2.5 gallons remaining. Once the main side of the saddle is exhausted of fuel (2.5 gallons remaining), of course the engine quits if the selector is on main, so the fairly standard procedure of: Aux fuel pump ' On Fuel Selector ' Reserve Engine ' Restart if not wind milling above 200RPM This will allow you to have the remaining 2.5 gallons US on the Reserve sid e of the hump for about 20-30 minutes before total fuel starvation. Hopefu lly you never have to be that low on gas. Keep in mind, if flying in a very high angle side slip will splash fuel fro m one side of the saddle to the other when fuel level is down to about 4-5 US gallons remaining. Please study the cockpit module and fuel tank description in the build manu al for a clearer picture of the tank shape. Fuel return is very small at high cruise and normally is about 1-2 gallons depending on 912 engine type over a full 2.5 hour flight time. The 914 ret urn is quite high at low power and low altitude and lower in full power ope rations at high boost. Sent from Mail for Window s 10 ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Europa48 Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2018 2:48:20 PM Subject: Europa-List: Return of unused fuel to reserve tank Hi Does anyone know what the normal rate of fuel return is from a Europa Xs ma in fuel tank to the reserve is? Is it necessary to use the reserve side fir st before switching to the main tank to allow space for unused fuel to be r eturned, or does any excess just go to the main tank. Thanks Read this topic online here: https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D481148%23481148&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cafbd 7c4a9447457f4d9f08d5d93a7040%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6 36653767364083563&sdata=saPeOdbbM%2Bw99BOHE4NR9kr%2Bc2QXkN5W9kCN0bZCzss%3 D&reserved=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cafbd7c4 a9447457f4d9f08d5d93a7040%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6366 53767364083563&sdata=WbN4jhZQ2KAbtd%2BbpM6b6pQsmy7%2BH2rtkx9s04CwR7w%3D&r eserved=0 F%2Fforums.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cafbd7c4a9447457f4d9f08d5d93a70 40%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636653767364083563&sdata= 308IbaO%2BhWlEnovk74hArXV8Hc5pIsm3agY%2FDxeEDW0%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwiki.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cafbd7c4a9447457f4d9f08d5d93a7040 %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636653767364083563&sdata=KG b%2F0EkJqwAquYXPB0aGv%2BkBQ3tcxbokqi1cVkzqVic%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cafbd7c4a9447457f4d 9f08d5d93a7040%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636653767364083 563&sdata=gf5so70kORwi8VFGGHwIiNulUl92htwHhYs0HzesjfM%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:51 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight Congrats on a job well done. Bud Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of spcialeffects Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 11:46:13 AM Subject: Europa-List: First Flight It is my pleasure to announce that my aircraft, G-STUE, beat gravity for th e first time this week with Pete Jeffers at the controls. Im forever indebt ed to Ivor Phillips for this time, knowledge and tools for helping get to t his special day Read this topic online here: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D481104%23481104&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7c5b 4101c185497676c208d5d857d0e0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6 36652794027076767&sdata=C6Z73A4TMi2Hldoq81g0Ki2FtwzXKz5Q9FTRHUEeHHY%3D&re served=0 Attachments: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m atronics.com%2F%2Ffiles%2Fimg_6011_530.jpg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7c5b4101c185 497676c208d5d857d0e0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636652794 027076767&sdata=blB%2FRJD0u8lraxZcs9YI8%2FiriTshD%2BG3V%2FBAnBb0hhk%3D&re served=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7c5b410 1c185497676c208d5d857d0e0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6366 52794027076767&sdata=Nz7YHrIk77gL6JwuUS%2FKkrX28LF%2F%2FXD64Hj%2FdSt%2Bbg 4%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fforums.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7c5b4101c185497676c208d5d857d0 e0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636652794027076767&sdata= jSfQEgSctJe9Wa7h6xYWPLvu9MzHrqoUeTWnJkavjKk%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwiki.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7c5b4101c185497676c208d5d857d0e0 %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636652794027076767&sdata=Kb %2B8VFtZTMk5BvzmlfH8K6%2FBiNQG%2Bp3D6zsqaGESLdM%3D&reserved=0 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7c5b4101c185497676 c208d5d857d0e0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636652794027076 767&sdata=W%2BQLEwCSDPD4OWc%2FT80n2R%2B9osALalWxT7%2Flfv8wfhE%3D&reserved =0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.