Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips (n7188u)
2. 04:57 AM - Re: Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips (Peter Zutrauen)
3. 05:08 AM - Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips (tennant)
4. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement (William Daniell)
5. 12:27 PM - Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips (n7188u)
6. 01:31 PM - Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips (n7188u)
7. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips (Mike Christine Duane)
8. 06:15 PM - Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips (n7188u)
9. 10:43 PM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__Re:_Vertical_play_at_stabilator_tips? ()
10. 11:07 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
11. 11:17 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips |
:) Once again thanks to all for the advice. It is in moments like this during the
construction of a kit plane that the support and encouragement from fellow
builders is so important. I will move forward as is.
To me, I deem smooth elevator control as a very important feature to achieving
good landings in an airplane. When I had my Mooney (another airplane with not
so great landing reputation [I'm building a mono]) the key to smooth landings
was smooth elevator control. I dissasembled the entire pushrod system in that
airplane (quite complex but neat) and rebuilt it to achieve smooth control and
great landings every time ensued.
It was an interesting learning experience to achieve this in the Europa. I understood
the fuselage was flexible but I got down to a point where just adding one
cleco could result in noticing binding (very slight). Probably not that critical
but I was that picky. I ended up designing two small ribs. One behind the
aft bulkhead, about the height where the bearings are located and about 1.5"
wide and another at the bonding flange location between the aft bulkhead and
the sternpost. Plus reinforcing the forward stick used to set the aft bottom fuselage
spread when installing the bearing. This stiffened the entire aft section
enough to prevent the bearings from twisting and binding when the top is clecoed
in place.
If I was doing this again, I would NOT follow the manual instructions again when
installing the torque tube. I would instead set the entire fuselage with clecos
(as recommended by the clamp mod instructions) and, at the last moment, if
would bond the bearings even if it was a difficult task. Bud Yearly also provided
advice about using stronger sticks to hold the bottom fuselage shape back
there, which is what I tried to achieve with the ribs after the fact. I really
concur with that advice since any miniscule deformation affected the bearings
back there.
Anyway, many thanks to all and looking forward to my friends stop calling my project
"The Canoe Build" :)
Best Regards,
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483494#483494
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips |
Great post Chris, thx!
I have made a steel frame build cradle for my canoe, so I am hoping the
alignment will not change enough with top-bonding to cause binding issues.
That said I was also planning on stabilizing the cockpit module prior to
bonding to minimize binding, so I am intrigued by your re-enforcing
strategy which I don't fully follow/understand. Could you send me some pics?
Cheers and thx,
Pete
On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 6:58 AM n7188u <chmgarb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> :) Once again thanks to all for the advice. It is in moments like this
> during the construction of a kit plane that the support and encouragement
> from fellow builders is so important. I will move forward as is.
>
> To me, I deem smooth elevator control as a very important feature to
> achieving good landings in an airplane. When I had my Mooney (another
> airplane with not so great landing reputation [I'm building a mono]) the
> key to smooth landings was smooth elevator control. I dissasembled the
> entire pushrod system in that airplane (quite complex but neat) and rebuilt
> it to achieve smooth control and great landings every time ensued.
>
> It was an interesting learning experience to achieve this in the Europa. I
> understood the fuselage was flexible but I got down to a point where just
> adding one cleco could result in noticing binding (very slight). Probably
> not that critical but I was that picky. I ended up designing two small
> ribs. One behind the aft bulkhead, about the height where the bearings are
> located and about 1.5" wide and another at the bonding flange location
> between the aft bulkhead and the sternpost. Plus reinforcing the forward
> stick used to set the aft bottom fuselage spread when installing the
> bearing. This stiffened the entire aft section enough to prevent the
> bearings from twisting and binding when the top is clecoed in place.
>
> If I was doing this again, I would NOT follow the manual instructions
> again when installing the torque tube. I would instead set the entire
> fuselage with clecos (as recommended by the clamp mod instructions) and, at
> the last moment, if would bond the bearings even if it was a difficult
> task. Bud Yearly also provided advice about using stronger sticks to hold
> the bottom fuselage shape back there, which is what I tried to achieve with
> the ribs after the fact. I really concur with that advice since any
> miniscule deformation affected the bearings back there.
>
> Anyway, many thanks to all and looking forward to my friends stop calling
> my project "The Canoe Build" :)
>
> Best Regards,
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483494#483494
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips |
Hi Chris,
Be glad that you have an elevator without stiffness. At fly inn's I have felt stiffness
in other Europa elevators. This must be quite annoying when trying to
trim.
Mine is quite free with a little play.
Barry
--------
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483496#483496
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| Subject: | Re: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement |
I found the bungee installation really difficult. I ended up making donuts
by knotting the shock cord (i used a clove hitch). You can then stretch
them from one side diagonally over the top to the other. You can also
adjust the load bearing characteristics by adding or removing donuts. Also
a break in a bungee doesnt mean you loose everything.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 7:42 PM Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
> Well said,
>
> The bungee is just fine. Most likely the hopping nose is a bungee too
> loose. Also the cable stop has to be adjusted properly to minimize the
> deflection and prevent a prop strike.
>
>
> I too always put a rubber bumper on the actual frame not the stop post.
I
> didn=99t change my bungee out for the springs until about 300 hours
. It was
> fine, I just wanted to do it.
>
>
> I really liked having it tight enough that I could put 200 pounds on the
> front of the engine and not pull it off the peg. Two men of about 360
> pounds total sitting on both footwells should stretch it off the stop. I
> think the bungee is 12 mm and very tight for the gap between the frame an
d
> firewall. If that space is smaller than 3/8 inch, put on the springs. I
f
> the bungee needs to be changed, I always recommended installing the
> springs, but it is heavier and on the nose. It takes me about 1.5 hours
to
> put the springs on and about the same for the bungee. However, those of
> you who use the metal firewall as on the mono, I feel for you. See my
> previous postings on firewalls for the trigear.
>
>
> Tightening the nose gear bungee is in Chapter 29T. Prep the bungee by
> tying a .025 safety wire around the cut end to squeeze it tightly.
> Remember your scout training on how to whip the end of a rope? Same
> technique with the wire. It keeps the end small and tight. I tie the
> other end off at the bottom, Then thread the wire through the gap and pu
ll
> the bungee through carefully. Pull down tightly and use a wood shim to
> jamb the tight bungee until I can get it back down and around the bottom.
> Two guys help, one on top and one on the bottom. The guy on the bottom c
an
> pull the bungee easier than the guy on top.
>
>
> For the Mod 71 springs, round the ends of the spring to ease slipping it
> on. The rest I have pretty completely reviewed in my Mod changes made so
me
> years ago. I use .016 stainless Reduxed on to the bottom and top spring
> hangar areas to prevent the spring from chewing into the soft 41 series
> steel. It stays clean and neat in there, no rust or paint chipping that
> way. I also hook the spring at the top and hook on to the bottom.
>
>
> If you are wondering how I keep weight off the nose gear, I don=99t
I have
> an exhaust clamp and two threaded rods holding the gear hard against the
> stop while I do the first spring. Then I knock out all the springs with
> the help of my hefty assistants stretching the spring. Wear gloves, as t
he
> spring will pinch/crush your fingers hard.
>
>
> Have fun, I do.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bud Yerly
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of John Wighton <
> john@wighton.net>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 29, 2018 3:39:47 AM
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Europa-List: Re: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement
>
>
> As Jonathan says (he is a perfect pilot by the way) , correct landing
> technique goes a long way in preserving the noseleg whatever way it is
> sprung.
>
> I have done nearly 500 hours in trigear Europa and find the nose gear wit
h
> spring mod very good. Careful technique is required on bumpy ground. My
> springs make a fair bit of noise - which can be heard when taxiing. The
> stick has to be held firmly to prevent the mass balance weight from
> =C3=A2=82=AC=CB=9Cdriving=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 the stick which caus
es longitudinal pitching - which drives
> the nosegear. This can amplify the apparent nose pitching which some
> pilots attribute solely to the springing of the nosegear.
>
> Holding the nose off is necessary and good technique. I see many flat or
> wheelbarrow landings by ppl and students at my local field - l think ther
e
> is less emphasis on avoiding early nosegear ground contact nowadays. Nev
er
> land a Europa nosegear first.
>
> I recommend the spring MOD, perhaps slightly more care is needed to avoid
> coupled longitudinal pitching where the nosegear and HT mass balance act
in
> unison. The relatively low maintenance requirements are also a positive
> factor.
>
> When taxiing, even at slow speed on bumping ground, the nose can start to
> bob up and down. This can be immediately stopped by slowing down. I als
o
> lock the stick with my knees (either fully back or forward) which avoids
> the mass balance coupling as described above.
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips |
I will be delighted to share what I did. Just give me a little time because I work
far from home and by the time I get there I work on the plane and then I am
too pooped to sit in front of a computer. I will send bits of info and pictures
here and there. enough to keep the conversation fun :)
So that we are clear on the kind of feedback I can give:
1.- I am not an expert Europa builder so whatever I do may or may not work. Seems
to be working for me though. Also, I am in the USA so anything I show here
may not be possible in Europe. However, the concepts still apply.
2.- I am a Mechanical Design Engineer, Aviation Mechanic, built a Cozy mark IV
and worked for an Aviation Structural Engineering firm at one point in my life.
Not to rub it just so that you know I am not totally insane when I try to do
a change (although I never claimed I dont make mistakes :)). And I do know there
are probably better ways to do things. Also, as Burt Rutan used to say, if
you modify it, you are now the designer and the test pilot of a brand airplane
design!
3.- Rule number one: dont force or bend anything into place, just let stuff find
its happy relaxed state and then attach. Simple concept, hard to implement.
If you have to bend or force anything then check its effect on the control system.
The issue I see with the control system assembly in the Europa has to do, in my
opinion, with how flexible everything is in these planes. I discovered the hard
way that when you install the controls in the cockpit module and the aft part
of the fuselage, any miniscule strain placed in the CM or fuselage bottom afterward
will cause small distortions that will increase friction in the system.
I'm not kidding, I spent hours, by inserting one cleco at a time and checking
friction, to find which clecos would increase friction in the controls (and
which would reduce it). I would then leave that cleco out and fill the small
gap with a little extra epoxy. If the gap is large then thats a story for another
lengthy writing.
With that said, I found that to achieve smooth controls is to avoid component distortion.
And a cleco distorts too much in this plane! And so why am convinced
that the right way to do this would be to bond the CM in the fuselage, cleco
the top perfectly and then bond all the control bearings in place. Maybe impossible
to do but would be ideal.
BTW, I may still end up with stiff controls since I have no idea if anything later
on will cause stuff to strain and bind the controls. Probably yes. But my
hope is that my effort will minimize the binding. Right now, a light breeze will
move the stabilators and I am happy! Lets see if I can keep it that way!
BTW, and I learned this from Bud Yearly, beware of cradles that fixate the fuselage
too much. If you build like that and then remove the cradle things will go
where they want to go and thus create binding. This thing is like a gigantic
bunch of springs that are tied to each other. If you constrain them and then
relax them, they will find a balance and it may not be where you want it. I do
have a cradle but nothing touches the fuselage except a small table at the bottom
of the forward fuselage in the CM area and thats it. I screwed the fuselage
to this table through the CM flanges to keep the bottom flat and level. Essentially
what the manual tells you to do but instead of a bunch of pallets I have
a nifty table on wheels. Then I still have the advantage of a cradle with
minimal distortion to the fuselage. Again, dont know if any of this will bite
me in the you know what later on but that is how I am doing it. Oh, wait, did
I said I screwed the fuselage to the table, oh boy, lets see what happens when
I let go, or put it on the gear, or hang the engine or sit on it, etc, etc, etc
:)
Pictures and explanations will follow on all this I talked about.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483511#483511
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips |
BTW Barry, I am jealous that you have a smooth system AND no play.
Not happy about the play but advice was received, consideration given and decision
made.
Another goal of mine is to finish this plane before my son goes to college so I
am in production mode! It seems that although not easy, the bushings can be changed
at a later date so it's not the end of the world if I get tired of the
play. Another consideration is that I may need that additional clearance if things
flex a little later in the build so it will stay as is for now.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483513#483513
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips |
Just for fun sake..... where in the States are you?
Mike Duane
Europa XS Conventional Gear
Las Vegas, NV
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 1, 2018, at 12:27 PM, n7188u <chmgarb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I will be delighted to share what I did. Just give me a little time because I
work far from home and by the time I get there I work on the plane and then I
am too pooped to sit in front of a computer. I will send bits of info and pictures
here and there. enough to keep the conversation fun :)
>
> So that we are clear on the kind of feedback I can give:
>
> 1.- I am not an expert Europa builder so whatever I do may or may not work. Seems
to be working for me though. Also, I am in the USA so anything I show here
may not be possible in Europe. However, the concepts still apply.
>
> 2.- I am a Mechanical Design Engineer, Aviation Mechanic, built a Cozy mark IV
and worked for an Aviation Structural Engineering firm at one point in my life.
Not to rub it just so that you know I am not totally insane when I try to
do a change (although I never claimed I dont make mistakes :)). And I do know
there are probably better ways to do things. Also, as Burt Rutan used to say,
if you modify it, you are now the designer and the test pilot of a brand airplane
design!
>
> 3.- Rule number one: dont force or bend anything into place, just let stuff find
its happy relaxed state and then attach. Simple concept, hard to implement.
If you have to bend or force anything then check its effect on the control system.
>
> The issue I see with the control system assembly in the Europa has to do, in
my opinion, with how flexible everything is in these planes. I discovered the
hard way that when you install the controls in the cockpit module and the aft
part of the fuselage, any miniscule strain placed in the CM or fuselage bottom
afterward will cause small distortions that will increase friction in the system.
I'm not kidding, I spent hours, by inserting one cleco at a time and checking
friction, to find which clecos would increase friction in the controls (and
which would reduce it). I would then leave that cleco out and fill the small
gap with a little extra epoxy. If the gap is large then thats a story for another
lengthy writing.
>
> With that said, I found that to achieve smooth controls is to avoid component
distortion. And a cleco distorts too much in this plane! And so why am convinced
that the right way to do this would be to bond the CM in the fuselage, cleco
the top perfectly and then bond all the control bearings in place. Maybe impossible
to do but would be ideal.
>
> BTW, I may still end up with stiff controls since I have no idea if anything
later on will cause stuff to strain and bind the controls. Probably yes. But my
hope is that my effort will minimize the binding. Right now, a light breeze
will move the stabilators and I am happy! Lets see if I can keep it that way!
>
> BTW, and I learned this from Bud Yearly, beware of cradles that fixate the fuselage
too much. If you build like that and then remove the cradle things will
go where they want to go and thus create binding. This thing is like a gigantic
bunch of springs that are tied to each other. If you constrain them and then
relax them, they will find a balance and it may not be where you want it. I
do have a cradle but nothing touches the fuselage except a small table at the
bottom of the forward fuselage in the CM area and thats it. I screwed the fuselage
to this table through the CM flanges to keep the bottom flat and level. Essentially
what the manual tells you to do but instead of a bunch of pallets I
have a nifty table on wheels. Then I still have the advantage of a cradle with
minimal distortion to the fuselage. Again, dont know if any of this will bite
me in the you know what later on but that is how I am doing it. Oh, wait, did
I said I screwed the fuselage to the tab!
> le, oh boy, lets see what happens when I let go, or put it on the gear, or hang
the engine or sit on it, etc, etc, etc :)
>
> Pictures and explanations will follow on all this I talked about.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483511#483511
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical play at stabilator tips |
Hi Mike,
Daytona, Florida. I'm actually not that isolated. There are two Europas in the
field but, as much as I try to connect with the owners or get a ride in one, it
never happens (one is two hangars from mine so it can't get any closer). Maybe
one day I will be able to ride one, hopefully before mine flies :)
So here are some pictures I just posted in my build site:
https://sites.google.com/site/martineuropaxsa291/Fuselage
The stiffening ribs behind the aft bulkhead is just an ugly attempt at preventing
binding of the stab bearings. It's working well though not very elegant. As
mentioned, next time around (yeah right) I will cleco the fuselage before bonding
the bearings (or some other nifty way).
I thought I had a good picture posted of the cradle I have (built by the builder
I got the kit from) but its not there. There are a couple of pictures of the
cradle but you can't see the flat surface under the fuselage which is where the
fuselage is actually resting. The cradle fuselage supports (or whatever those
rib things are called) are not touching the fuselage. I trim those back so
that there is about an inch of clearance all around between the supports and the
fuselage skin. This was done to keep the cradle from deforming the fuselage
in any way. Those supports (or ribs) are still there so that I can tilt the whole
cradle and still support the fuselage. I also plan to remove the flat surface
when ready to install the gear.
Enjoy perusing my site and if you see anything I did wrong let me know :)
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483519#483519
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: f-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Vertical_play_at_stabilator_tips? |
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Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Europa-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Europa-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Europa-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
europa-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "europa-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Europa-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Europa-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/europa-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Europa-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Europa-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Europa-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Europa-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Europa-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Europa-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Europa
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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