Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:10 AM - Re: Aluminium Fuel Pipe (zwakie)
2. 03:31 AM - Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunnel (zwakie)
3. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunnel (Bud Yerly)
4. 07:33 AM - Routing fuel lines (Wladimir Kummer de Paula)
5. 08:13 AM - Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunnel (zwakie)
6. 09:47 AM - Re: Routing fuel lines (Rowland Carson)
7. 11:57 AM - Re: Routing fuel lines (Bud Yerly)
8. 12:34 PM - Re: Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunnel (Bud Yerly)
9. 03:16 PM - Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunnel (zwakie)
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminium Fuel Pipe |
Roland wrote:
> I got a 60 elbow silicone fuel resistant hose with 15cm legs manufactured from
Samco (bought via Merlin Motorsports) to replace the original rubber hose. The
legs can be cut to length if need be. It costs 67,96 GBP + VAT + shipping.
>
> This way you avoid additional connections. The fuel smell in the Cockpit was
gone.
Hi Roland, do you pictures available that demonstrate how these are fitted? I guess
you meant that you can do with the rubber joining? If so, I really like that
approach.
What's the ID of the hose that you ordered?
BR, Marcel.
PS How are you getting along with your fuel tank?
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483672#483672
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| Subject: | Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunnel |
Hi Bud, thanks for your suggestions as always.
budyerly(at)msn.com wrote:
> There is no easy solution
Yes, I came to that conclusion myself ;)
budyerly(at)msn.com wrote:
>
> 1. Make sure the com/transponder/vhf nav antenna wires are clear of the com
and any current carrying wires.
> 2. Shield all the intercom and radio wires you can. Power and ground are
not shielded normally.
Sure enough.
budyerly(at)msn.com wrote:
> 3. [...] clearly mark all the wires using permanent marking ties. (A zip
tie thingy with a tab.)
>
For markings I use printable shrink wrap labels, that works very nicely.
budyerly(at)msn.com wrote:
>
> 4. [...] as fuel, brake, and wires are present and by adjusting the position
of much of this you may cause a brake line leak, fuel line cut etc.
>
This was my reason for thinking before acting as this is my biggest concern also
due to lack of 'easy' access: I only have two small panels where the tank outlets
are (for fuel line replacement),. Unfortunately these are too small to get
arms through far enough to reach the top of the tunnel. So maybe...
budyerly(at)msn.com wrote:
> Make a new access hole if necessary. I have one large belly panel and a smaller
one at the rear
is the best thing to do first.
Where do you have that large panel, is it approximately where the landing gear
is mounted, and and do you have a picture that you can share? (I could not find
any picture on your website)
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483673#483673
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| Subject: | Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunnel |
Marcel:
Most of my photos are in archive with the client files and are with them.
For a trigear conversion you can see that the belly hole was filled in with
a flange on the inside, and then a recessed plate installed for a clean fi
nish.
The hole I make in the tunnel area for access normally measures 6 inches wi
de by 8-10 inches long.
If the belly pan is stock, it is a very thin two to three layer panel on th
e belly and over time is no longer straight and smooth. I cut the hole, an
d build up the inside to fit my flush panel (normally .063 aluminum, or FRP
or 1/8 ply) and glass it in from the inside. If the tunnel is sealed and
work inside is impossible, I cut the access hole and make an exact copy and
then cut the inside out (making a ring) for access to allow proper but ted
ious glassing of the flange.
On others for expediencies sake, I have just put a plate on the inside holl
owed out as a flange, reduxed that ring to the inside and riveted it in to
get a good bond. Then I fitted a plate for the outside to match the skin c
ut out to avoid the glassing. Install nutplates and used 525 screws to hol
d it in. The outer sheet metal cover is of .025 6061 aluminum and rests ro
ughly even with the belly skin cut out. This is easy but what a bear to tr
y not to cut into his wires laying all over the place in the belly. Much w
ork with a flashlight and borescope to cut an initial round hole to prevent
whacking his brake, fuel and wiring into shreds. We then tacked up his br
ake lines, repaired his brakes, and reran his wires. Get a creeper to lay
on with a body lift or develop very strong stomach muscles.
Here is a photo of one a client did on his trigear conversion. He just lef
t the old hole in place. After seening how I did my belly access, he insta
lled his new firewall about 1.5 inches behind the nose gear frame where we
put in a ply and glass firewall and covered with A/C Spruce firewall materi
al (excellent stuff).
This access to the tunnel made the process of conversion of the tunnel quit
e comfortable.
Transformation of the mono to trigear tunnel is a piece of cake. Glassing
and finishing was tolerable. I normally like the access hole to be a littl
e further aft of the firewall to allow for the Fascet fuel pump to be moved
where it is easier to service in the tunnel as shown in the second photo.
[cid:image001.jpg@01D45E27.81163A00]
[cid:image006.jpg@01D45E27.81163A00]
The belly hole allows for access to the brakes wiring, fuel selector, and w
iring. Annual flashlight inspections are a breeze.
Hope that answers your questions. Don=92t over think it, just do it.
Regards,
Bud
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of zwakie <mz@cariama.nl>
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 6:30:26 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunn
el
Hi Bud, thanks for your suggestions as always.
budyerly(at)msn.com wrote:
> There is no easy solution
Yes, I came to that conclusion myself ;)
budyerly(at)msn.com wrote:
>
> 1. Make sure the com/transponder/vhf nav antenna wires are clear of th
e com and any current carrying wires.
> 2. Shield all the intercom and radio wires you can. Power and ground
are not shielded normally.
Sure enough.
budyerly(at)msn.com wrote:
> 3. [...] clearly mark all the wires using permanent marking ties. (A
zip tie thingy with a tab.)
>
For markings I use printable shrink wrap labels, that works very nicely.
budyerly(at)msn.com wrote:
>
> 4. [...] as fuel, brake, and wires are present and by adjusting the po
sition of much of this you may cause a brake line leak, fuel line cut etc.
>
This was my reason for thinking before acting as this is my biggest concern
also due to lack of 'easy' access: I only have two small panels where the
tank outlets are (for fuel line replacement),. Unfortunately these are too
small to get arms through far enough to reach the top of the tunnel. So may
be...
budyerly(at)msn.com wrote:
> Make a new access hole if necessary. I have one large belly panel and a
smaller one at the rear
is the best thing to do first.
Where do you have that large panel, is it approximately where the landing g
ear is mounted, and and do you have a picture that you can share? (I could
not find any picture on your website)
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m
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| Subject: | Routing fuel lines |
Hi all,
Im building kit A193 Long Wing variant, monowheel. Im located in Brazil.
Right now Im finishing mod 78 and getting ready to align wings to fuse.
Some time ago Ive posted a request for some directions on how is the best
or most used method of routing the fuel lines from pump to firewall
penetration point. Im not confortable with going thru the tunnel since it
would be vulnerable to damage from rocks and whatever. Hows your opinion?
Wlad
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| Subject: | Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunnel |
Hi Bud,
The setups in your photos is pretty much what I have, I was assuming you were referring
to having a large access panel under the baggage bay / landing gear fixing
area area. Probably I assumed this because the hard part is getting from
appr. the "D" to that large panel between the seats. As most of the times, my
assumption has proven to be the mother of.... (well, you know what ;) )
Though not quite done thinking yet, I guess putting a (snakeskin?) sleeve around
the bundle prior to working it through the tunnel will simplify the job and
reduce the risk of damaging whatever is already there...
I will do as you say, next time at the airport I will start doing it.
As always, your advise is much appreciated!
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483677#483677
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| Subject: | Re: Routing fuel lines |
On 2018-10-07, at 15:33, Wladimir Kummer de Paula <wladimirkummer@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ive posted a request for some directions on how is the best
> or most used method of routing the fuel lines from pump to firewall
> penetration point. Im not confortable with going thru the tunnel since it
> would be vulnerable to damage from rocks and whatever. Hows your opinion?
Wlad - my choice is to use flexible, stainless-steel braided fuel hose in the tunnel
area. See:
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/pipe_to_hose_union.php
for a picture of part of it.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
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| Subject: | Routing fuel lines |
Rowland,
You live where the gas does not stink. Braded line in the US is fine for A
V GAS.
Current braded fuel line in the US does not have a liner to meet EPA barrie
r protection from ethanol. This is very sad for us in the colonies. I env
y you guys=85At times.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 12:46:33 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Routing fuel lines
On 2018-10-07, at 15:33, Wladimir Kummer de Paula <wladimirkummer@gmail.com
> wrote:
> I=B4ve posted a request for some directions on how is the best
> or most used method of routing the fuel lines from pump to firewall
> penetration point. I=B4m not confortable with going thru the tunnel since
it
> would be vulnerable to damage from rocks and whatever. How=B4s your opini
on?
Wlad - my choice is to use flexible, stainless-steel braided fuel hose in t
he tunnel area. See:
https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rowl
andcarson.org.uk%2Faviation%2Feuropa_435%2Fpipe_to_hose_union.php&data
=02%7C01%7C%7C8440d9eb83f141eab98d08d62c74f69a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaa
aaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636745278192568208&sdata=3g%2BBagtDNKB36DpUFKnhIvl
1zznFY1i02iaAHFHcy9c%3D&reserved=0
for a picture of part of it.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
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| Subject: | Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunnel |
Marcel,
I did not put an access from below, to access the baggage bay. I put the a
ccess hole in the floor between the panels, so I can access the flap drive,
and any wire bundles I need to run through the tunnel. I can use a large
mirror to see and inspect well forward.
Under the fuel tank I have the stock access holes. All my customers have t
he elongated hole for access. Between that fuel access hole, the one in th
e baggage bay floor, the aft end between the seats from on top, and finally
the large hole in my center tunnel makes the plane quite enjoyable to insp
ect and service.
There is nothing wrong with opening up the hump in the tunnel aft of the Mo
d 52 bar if you need to gain access. Just glass it back up or put in a fla
nge and restore the structure for your trigear frames. I elected to simply
put the hole (six inch hole with a =BD inch flange allowing 5 inches of ro
und hole to see in there) in the floor and it allows easy access to my flap
drive. I also made a large hole through the vertical support on the inboa
rd port vertical support also to allow service.
See drawing of my typical baggage bay.
[cid:image003.png@01D45E53.23472A70]
If I can put an access hole somewhere to allow maintenance and retain struc
ture, I do it.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of zwakie <mz@cariama.nl>
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 11:13:11 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunn
el
Hi Bud,
The setups in your photos is pretty much what I have, I was assuming you we
re referring to having a large access panel under the baggage bay / landing
gear fixing area area. Probably I assumed this because the hard part is ge
tting from appr. the "D" to that large panel between the seats. As most of
the times, my assumption has proven to be the mother of.... (well, you know
what ;) )
Though not quite done thinking yet, I guess putting a (snakeskin?) sleeve a
round the bundle prior to working it through the tunnel will simplify the j
ob and reduce the risk of damaging whatever is already there...
I will do as you say, next time at the airport I will start doing it.
As always, your advise is much appreciated!
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m
atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D483677%23483677&data=02%7C01%7C%7C
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| Subject: | Re: Advise wanted: route new wire bundle through tunnel |
My baggage bay arrangement is pretty much the same as in your standard layout,
except that I do not have that 6 inch access hole with 5 inch access on the floor
of the baggage bay.
That extra hole would make things a whole lot simpler (now and for future work
and inspections), so that's what I will be going for. For the job at hand I think
this will resolve my current issues/concerns.
Going off-topic: the builder of my plane has put a 4 inch hole in the starboard
outer vertical support that always puzzled me as I could not find any reason
for having that hole there. Reading your post made me realize that the builder
probably had easy service in mind but got the inward and outward support swapped
at install and either never realized his mistake or chose not to correct -
funny how things go about huh? ;)
Thanks again, you have been of great help Bud!
Marcel
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483691#483691
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