Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:01 AM - Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp (n7188u)
2. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp (David Lewendon)
3. 08:24 AM - Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp (n7188u)
4. 11:46 AM - LG frame cracks (h&jeuropa)
5. 11:50 AM - Woodcomp Ground Adjustable (are they OK?) (n7188u)
6. 12:08 PM - Re: LG frame cracks (Tim Ward)
7. 12:38 PM - Re: Woodcomp Ground Adjustable (are they OK?) (n7188u)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp |
Thanks for the replies to all.
Very sensible suggestion to try both props (fun and informative). I am just a little
limited in funds available for this project and honestly my plane won't
be ready for a year (or most probably more). The opportunity came up to buy a
prop now so I am considering it. But yes, I will talk to my friend and see if
we can reach a deal. I am certainly curious and tempted to try both props but
not sure my wife would be as thrilled of my curious nature :)
One thing I wanted to share with the group (and getting off topic a little) is
the reason for me building the Europa and why I am very careful with the money
I spend on it. That may explain why I make decisions (or asks questions) that
may not make sense to everyone.
This is not my only plane. I also own a LongEZ which I love and a Kolb Firestar
(essentially an ultralight). I really don't need another plane but I love building
planes so I asked my wife (and got approval) to find an orphan kit to buy
at a relatively low cost and enjoy building it (sorry Marty for calling your
plane this but that's how I ended up getting it). I found Europa A291 and purchased
it.
Two motivators for this project where that my flying buddies are continually going
to grass fields and I can't do that with the LongEZ. Also, most trips are
short (less than 100 miles). Too long for the Kolb but short enough not to need
a fancy fast plane (much less IFR capable). With that in mind I am trying to
build my airplane as light as possible and with almost no instrumentation except
for what is absolutely required by law. Designers always rave about the performance
of airplanes when they are light (no frufru as Rutan used to say) so
I am trying to see what all that is about
.
The other motivator, and most important, is that I am a long time EAA member and
miss the original's organization charter of constructing a plane for relatively
little money. I wanted to demonstrate that there are a number of unfinished
projects out there that could be purchased for less than the cost of a new kit
and finished for a reasonable amount of money. BTW, it is very hard to beat
the price of some good finished airplanes out there. My LongEZ is a fantastic
plane and it cost less than what I will have in materials for my low cost Europa
project.
One more thing I forgot to mention: I wanted a side by side plane to take my kids
up and let them fly (Im a CFI). The LongEZ is really not a good plane for that.
So there you have it. I have been buying good (and safe) but used components and
counting the beans when it comes to how much I spend on the Europa. I have limited
the number of mods to keep weight, complexity and build time to a minimum
(except for what is mandatory and makes sense once weight is factored in).
But that doesnt mean that once finished, and if the need for a faster Europa comes
about, I spend more money on stuff like a CS prop or additional frufru to
make it as pretty as you guys out there made your Europas.
Regarding speed, and here I may get in trouble with some of the forum members,
it seems to me that the biggest gain in performance in the Europa is gained from
having a 914 and being able to fly high with the turbocharged engine. The gains
I hear from people doing mods, such as CS prop and aerodynamic improvements,
but flying the non turbo engine at low altitude are impressive but not sure
worth the cost and weight unless you want to fly longer distances than what
I am planning to do. Dont get me wrong, I want a CS prop, just being very pragmatic
about making a decision to go that route. the nice thing about CS prop to
me is the extra power on takeoff. The LongEZ is a dog on takeoff when heavy
(fixed pitch)!!
Now let me see in how much trouble I got for writing this post :)
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484888#484888
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp |
A bit off subject but I have recently changed from one Europa with a C/S prop to
one with a Warp Drive fixed pitch prop and I much prefer the fixed pitch prop.
It is pitched at 19 degrees which is a cruise setting and I find it very smooth.
I get 120 kts at 5250 revs. Saves weight as well.
David Lewendon
Sent from my iPhone
> On 12 Nov 2018, at 15:00, n7188u <chmgarb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the replies to all.
>
> Very sensible suggestion to try both props (fun and informative). I am just a
little limited in funds available for this project and honestly my plane won't
be ready for a year (or most probably more). The opportunity came up to buy
a prop now so I am considering it. But yes, I will talk to my friend and see if
we can reach a deal. I am certainly curious and tempted to try both props but
not sure my wife would be as thrilled of my curious nature :)
>
> One thing I wanted to share with the group (and getting off topic a little) is
the reason for me building the Europa and why I am very careful with the money
I spend on it. That may explain why I make decisions (or asks questions) that
may not make sense to everyone.
>
> This is not my only plane. I also own a LongEZ which I love and a Kolb Firestar
(essentially an ultralight). I really don't need another plane but I love building
planes so I asked my wife (and got approval) to find an orphan kit to
buy at a relatively low cost and enjoy building it (sorry Marty for calling your
plane this but that's how I ended up getting it). I found Europa A291 and purchased
it.
>
> Two motivators for this project where that my flying buddies are continually
going to grass fields and I can't do that with the LongEZ. Also, most trips are
short (less than 100 miles). Too long for the Kolb but short enough not to need
a fancy fast plane (much less IFR capable). With that in mind I am trying
to build my airplane as light as possible and with almost no instrumentation except
for what is absolutely required by law. Designers always rave about the
performance of airplanes when they are light (no frufru as Rutan used to say)
so I am trying to see what all that is about
> .
> The other motivator, and most important, is that I am a long time EAA member
and miss the original's organization charter of constructing a plane for relatively
little money. I wanted to demonstrate that there are a number of unfinished
projects out there that could be purchased for less than the cost of a new
kit and finished for a reasonable amount of money. BTW, it is very hard to beat
the price of some good finished airplanes out there. My LongEZ is a fantastic
plane and it cost less than what I will have in materials for my low cost Europa
project.
>
> One more thing I forgot to mention: I wanted a side by side plane to take my
kids up and let them fly (Im a CFI). The LongEZ is really not a good plane for
that.
>
> So there you have it. I have been buying good (and safe) but used components
and counting the beans when it comes to how much I spend on the Europa. I have
limited the number of mods to keep weight, complexity and build time to a minimum
(except for what is mandatory and makes sense once weight is factored in).
But that doesnt mean that once finished, and if the need for a faster Europa
comes about, I spend more money on stuff like a CS prop or additional frufru
to make it as pretty as you guys out there made your Europas.
>
> Regarding speed, and here I may get in trouble with some of the forum members,
it seems to me that the biggest gain in performance in the Europa is gained
from having a 914 and being able to fly high with the turbocharged engine. The
gains I hear from people doing mods, such as CS prop and aerodynamic improvements,
but flying the non turbo engine at low altitude are impressive but not sure
worth the cost and weight unless you want to fly longer distances than what
I am planning to do. Dont get me wrong, I want a CS prop, just being very pragmatic
about making a decision to go that route. the nice thing about CS prop
to me is the extra power on takeoff. The LongEZ is a dog on takeoff when heavy
(fixed pitch)!!
>
> Now let me see in how much trouble I got for writing this post :)
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484888#484888
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp |
Not at all off topic David. And it's great to hear the opinion and experiences
form different people. That is what forums are for!
Of course each person's mission is different. Motivations, budgets and opinions
also are. And they change over time too.
It's good to hear the warp drive is a good option. They are well priced too. I
actually have an IVO prop in my Kolb and I absolutely love the thing. But I heard
negative comments in the forum regarding the IVO on the Europa.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484892#484892
Message 4
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We discovered a potential safety issue and wanted to share this so others become
aware of the situation and can inspect their aircraft.
We are in the process of our annual condition inspection on our mono wheel. This
year is extensive since motor mounts and bungee cord need replaced. After
being alerted by John Wigney of possible cracks in the lower tubes of the LG frame,
we inspected and discovered our frame is cracked like his. The cracks are
very difficult to find as they are somewhat hidden by the firewall and behind
the vertical tubes of the frame. Using Johns photos, a strong light, and magnifying
glass, we were able to see a crack in the starboard tube. A photo with
our iPad actually gave the best indication of a crack. A dye penetrant test
confirmed the crack. The crack in the port tube wasnt evident until the powder
coat was removed. The attached document has good photos of Johns cracks.
We removed the frame and had it repaired by an experienced A&P (FAA mechanic) using
techniques called out in AC 43-13. We reamed out the tubes and machined
a tube to be a tight fit similar to Mod 72 for the upper tubes except the insert
is the full length of the tube. The insert is welded to the original tube
with rosette welds, and the cracks were stop drilled prior to welding. One bolt
hole was elongated so we changed it to AN4.
A side note, when we started to remove the LG frame, we found that some of the
mounting bolts were no longer tight. When doing your inspection, we suggest you
check these nuts and if any are at all loose, inspect very carefully for cracks.
Our mono wheel kit was purchased April 2000, kit A185 and has 975 hours.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484894#484894
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/181001a_photo_summary_of_landing_gear_frame_cracks_131.pdf
Message 5
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Subject: | Woodcomp Ground Adjustable (are they OK?) |
Guys (or gals),
As you know from my previous posting, I am trying to get a well priced Woodcomp
ground adjustable prop. that is in very good shape. This prop (and also a DUC)
came for a neighbors certified LSA.
Do all the conversations about Woodcomp props having problems in hot and humid
climates also relate to ground adjustable ones? I did one once inspect a Sting
2000 LSA with a Woodcomp prop which I had the owner remove and replace due to
delamination at the root. But this airplane sat abandoned in the elements for
years (as well as having had a forced landing in a parking lot once).
I inspected the prop being offered to me and looks good (no delamination). Due
to the good price and known source I would like to get the prop (if for no other
reason than to have a spare) but just making sure their reputation is not so
bad that I am doing something crazy here.
Tonight I am going to look at the prop logbook but I believe it's a Klassic style
prop, 3 blade (and I think I measure 73 or 74 inches but I have that info at
home).
Thanks for the feedback.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484895#484895
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: LG frame cracks |
Hi Jim,
Thanks for your Landing Gear Information.
I tried to check my LG the other day, after Johns article, the best way one can
without removing the engine and firewall. Not really satisfactory. The only way
to do a satisfactory check is to remove the engine frame itself, which is a
big job. Checked the mounting bolts and all ok.
May well have to be a mandatory airworthiness directive?
It would be interesting to see what the Europa Company say?
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Mob +64 210640221
> On 13/11/2018, at 8:45 AM, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> We discovered a potential safety issue and wanted to share this so others become
aware of the situation and can inspect their aircraft.
>
> We are in the process of our annual condition inspection on our mono wheel.
This year is extensive since motor mounts and bungee cord need replaced. After
being alerted by John Wigney of possible cracks in the lower tubes of the LG
frame, we inspected and discovered our frame is cracked like his. The cracks
are very difficult to find as they are somewhat hidden by the firewall and behind
the vertical tubes of the frame. Using Johns photos, a strong light, and
magnifying glass, we were able to see a crack in the starboard tube. A photo
with our iPad actually gave the best indication of a crack. A dye penetrant
test confirmed the crack. The crack in the port tube wasnt evident until the
powder coat was removed. The attached document has good photos of Johns cracks.
>
> We removed the frame and had it repaired by an experienced A&P (FAA mechanic)
using techniques called out in AC 43-13. We reamed out the tubes and machined
a tube to be a tight fit similar to Mod 72 for the upper tubes except the insert
is the full length of the tube. The insert is welded to the original tube
with rosette welds, and the cracks were stop drilled prior to welding. One
bolt hole was elongated so we changed it to AN4.
>
> A side note, when we started to remove the LG frame, we found that some of the
mounting bolts were no longer tight. When doing your inspection, we suggest
you check these nuts and if any are at all loose, inspect very carefully for
cracks.
>
> Our mono wheel kit was purchased April 2000, kit A185 and has 975 hours.
>
> Jim & Heather
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484894#484894
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/181001a_photo_summary_of_landing_gear_frame_cracks_131.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Woodcomp Ground Adjustable (are they OK?) |
So got a little more info on the prop. It's a Woodcomp Klassic 170/3/R. Was removed
from the aircraft at 380 hrs in 2017. The aircraft was serviced by SportAir
before 2015 which is the Woodcomp distributor in the US so at least up to that
year I know the prop was properly inspected. The prop is 2010 vintage. Not
new but not so old in terms of aviation stuff I guess.
This prop model is the one recommended by Woodcomp for the Europa. I think I am
going to get it. The spinner is not the right size so I'll have to get one.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484897#484897
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