---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/12/18: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:01 AM - Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp (n7188u) 2. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp (David Lewendon) 3. 08:24 AM - Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp (n7188u) 4. 11:46 AM - LG frame cracks (h&jeuropa) 5. 11:50 AM - Woodcomp Ground Adjustable (are they OK?) (n7188u) 6. 12:08 PM - Re: LG frame cracks (Tim Ward) 7. 12:38 PM - Re: Woodcomp Ground Adjustable (are they OK?) (n7188u) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:10 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp From: "n7188u" Thanks for the replies to all. Very sensible suggestion to try both props (fun and informative). I am just a little limited in funds available for this project and honestly my plane won't be ready for a year (or most probably more). The opportunity came up to buy a prop now so I am considering it. But yes, I will talk to my friend and see if we can reach a deal. I am certainly curious and tempted to try both props but not sure my wife would be as thrilled of my curious nature :) One thing I wanted to share with the group (and getting off topic a little) is the reason for me building the Europa and why I am very careful with the money I spend on it. That may explain why I make decisions (or asks questions) that may not make sense to everyone. This is not my only plane. I also own a LongEZ which I love and a Kolb Firestar (essentially an ultralight). I really don't need another plane but I love building planes so I asked my wife (and got approval) to find an orphan kit to buy at a relatively low cost and enjoy building it (sorry Marty for calling your plane this but that's how I ended up getting it). I found Europa A291 and purchased it. Two motivators for this project where that my flying buddies are continually going to grass fields and I can't do that with the LongEZ. Also, most trips are short (less than 100 miles). Too long for the Kolb but short enough not to need a fancy fast plane (much less IFR capable). With that in mind I am trying to build my airplane as light as possible and with almost no instrumentation except for what is absolutely required by law. Designers always rave about the performance of airplanes when they are light (no frufru as Rutan used to say) so I am trying to see what all that is about .. The other motivator, and most important, is that I am a long time EAA member and miss the original's organization charter of constructing a plane for relatively little money. I wanted to demonstrate that there are a number of unfinished projects out there that could be purchased for less than the cost of a new kit and finished for a reasonable amount of money. BTW, it is very hard to beat the price of some good finished airplanes out there. My LongEZ is a fantastic plane and it cost less than what I will have in materials for my low cost Europa project. One more thing I forgot to mention: I wanted a side by side plane to take my kids up and let them fly (Im a CFI). The LongEZ is really not a good plane for that. So there you have it. I have been buying good (and safe) but used components and counting the beans when it comes to how much I spend on the Europa. I have limited the number of mods to keep weight, complexity and build time to a minimum (except for what is mandatory and makes sense once weight is factored in). But that doesnt mean that once finished, and if the need for a faster Europa comes about, I spend more money on stuff like a CS prop or additional frufru to make it as pretty as you guys out there made your Europas. Regarding speed, and here I may get in trouble with some of the forum members, it seems to me that the biggest gain in performance in the Europa is gained from having a 914 and being able to fly high with the turbocharged engine. The gains I hear from people doing mods, such as CS prop and aerodynamic improvements, but flying the non turbo engine at low altitude are impressive but not sure worth the cost and weight unless you want to fly longer distances than what I am planning to do. Dont get me wrong, I want a CS prop, just being very pragmatic about making a decision to go that route. the nice thing about CS prop to me is the extra power on takeoff. The LongEZ is a dog on takeoff when heavy (fixed pitch)!! Now let me see in how much trouble I got for writing this post :) Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484888#484888 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:57 AM PST US From: David Lewendon Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp A bit off subject but I have recently changed from one Europa with a C/S prop to one with a Warp Drive fixed pitch prop and I much prefer the fixed pitch prop. It is pitched at 19 degrees which is a cruise setting and I find it very smooth. I get 120 kts at 5250 revs. Saves weight as well. David Lewendon Sent from my iPhone > On 12 Nov 2018, at 15:00, n7188u wrote: > > > Thanks for the replies to all. > > Very sensible suggestion to try both props (fun and informative). I am just a little limited in funds available for this project and honestly my plane won't be ready for a year (or most probably more). The opportunity came up to buy a prop now so I am considering it. But yes, I will talk to my friend and see if we can reach a deal. I am certainly curious and tempted to try both props but not sure my wife would be as thrilled of my curious nature :) > > One thing I wanted to share with the group (and getting off topic a little) is the reason for me building the Europa and why I am very careful with the money I spend on it. That may explain why I make decisions (or asks questions) that may not make sense to everyone. > > This is not my only plane. I also own a LongEZ which I love and a Kolb Firestar (essentially an ultralight). I really don't need another plane but I love building planes so I asked my wife (and got approval) to find an orphan kit to buy at a relatively low cost and enjoy building it (sorry Marty for calling your plane this but that's how I ended up getting it). I found Europa A291 and purchased it. > > Two motivators for this project where that my flying buddies are continually going to grass fields and I can't do that with the LongEZ. Also, most trips are short (less than 100 miles). Too long for the Kolb but short enough not to need a fancy fast plane (much less IFR capable). With that in mind I am trying to build my airplane as light as possible and with almost no instrumentation except for what is absolutely required by law. Designers always rave about the performance of airplanes when they are light (no frufru as Rutan used to say) so I am trying to see what all that is about > . > The other motivator, and most important, is that I am a long time EAA member and miss the original's organization charter of constructing a plane for relatively little money. I wanted to demonstrate that there are a number of unfinished projects out there that could be purchased for less than the cost of a new kit and finished for a reasonable amount of money. BTW, it is very hard to beat the price of some good finished airplanes out there. My LongEZ is a fantastic plane and it cost less than what I will have in materials for my low cost Europa project. > > One more thing I forgot to mention: I wanted a side by side plane to take my kids up and let them fly (Im a CFI). The LongEZ is really not a good plane for that. > > So there you have it. I have been buying good (and safe) but used components and counting the beans when it comes to how much I spend on the Europa. I have limited the number of mods to keep weight, complexity and build time to a minimum (except for what is mandatory and makes sense once weight is factored in). But that doesnt mean that once finished, and if the need for a faster Europa comes about, I spend more money on stuff like a CS prop or additional frufru to make it as pretty as you guys out there made your Europas. > > Regarding speed, and here I may get in trouble with some of the forum members, it seems to me that the biggest gain in performance in the Europa is gained from having a 914 and being able to fly high with the turbocharged engine. The gains I hear from people doing mods, such as CS prop and aerodynamic improvements, but flying the non turbo engine at low altitude are impressive but not sure worth the cost and weight unless you want to fly longer distances than what I am planning to do. Dont get me wrong, I want a CS prop, just being very pragmatic about making a decision to go that route. the nice thing about CS prop to me is the extra power on takeoff. The LongEZ is a dog on takeoff when heavy (fixed pitch)!! > > Now let me see in how much trouble I got for writing this post :) > > Chris > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484888#484888 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:25 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp From: "n7188u" Not at all off topic David. And it's great to hear the opinion and experiences form different people. That is what forums are for! Of course each person's mission is different. Motivations, budgets and opinions also are. And they change over time too. It's good to hear the warp drive is a good option. They are well priced too. I actually have an IVO prop in my Kolb and I absolutely love the thing. But I heard negative comments in the forum regarding the IVO on the Europa. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484892#484892 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:20 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: LG frame cracks From: "h&jeuropa" We discovered a potential safety issue and wanted to share this so others become aware of the situation and can inspect their aircraft. We are in the process of our annual condition inspection on our mono wheel. This year is extensive since motor mounts and bungee cord need replaced. After being alerted by John Wigney of possible cracks in the lower tubes of the LG frame, we inspected and discovered our frame is cracked like his. The cracks are very difficult to find as they are somewhat hidden by the firewall and behind the vertical tubes of the frame. Using Johns photos, a strong light, and magnifying glass, we were able to see a crack in the starboard tube. A photo with our iPad actually gave the best indication of a crack. A dye penetrant test confirmed the crack. The crack in the port tube wasnt evident until the powder coat was removed. The attached document has good photos of Johns cracks. We removed the frame and had it repaired by an experienced A&P (FAA mechanic) using techniques called out in AC 43-13. We reamed out the tubes and machined a tube to be a tight fit similar to Mod 72 for the upper tubes except the insert is the full length of the tube. The insert is welded to the original tube with rosette welds, and the cracks were stop drilled prior to welding. One bolt hole was elongated so we changed it to AN4. A side note, when we started to remove the LG frame, we found that some of the mounting bolts were no longer tight. When doing your inspection, we suggest you check these nuts and if any are at all loose, inspect very carefully for cracks. Our mono wheel kit was purchased April 2000, kit A185 and has 975 hours. Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484894#484894 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/181001a_photo_summary_of_landing_gear_frame_cracks_131.pdf ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:26 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Woodcomp Ground Adjustable (are they OK?) From: "n7188u" Guys (or gals), As you know from my previous posting, I am trying to get a well priced Woodcomp ground adjustable prop. that is in very good shape. This prop (and also a DUC) came for a neighbors certified LSA. Do all the conversations about Woodcomp props having problems in hot and humid climates also relate to ground adjustable ones? I did one once inspect a Sting 2000 LSA with a Woodcomp prop which I had the owner remove and replace due to delamination at the root. But this airplane sat abandoned in the elements for years (as well as having had a forced landing in a parking lot once). I inspected the prop being offered to me and looks good (no delamination). Due to the good price and known source I would like to get the prop (if for no other reason than to have a spare) but just making sure their reputation is not so bad that I am doing something crazy here. Tonight I am going to look at the prop logbook but I believe it's a Klassic style prop, 3 blade (and I think I measure 73 or 74 inches but I have that info at home). Thanks for the feedback. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484895#484895 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: LG frame cracks From: Tim Ward Hi Jim, Thanks for your Landing Gear Information. I tried to check my LG the other day, after Johns article, the best way one can without removing the engine and firewall. Not really satisfactory. The only way to do a satisfactory check is to remove the engine frame itself, which is a big job. Checked the mounting bolts and all ok. May well have to be a mandatory airworthiness directive? It would be interesting to see what the Europa Company say? Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand ward.t@xtra.co.nz Mob +64 210640221 > On 13/11/2018, at 8:45 AM, h&jeuropa wrote: > > > We discovered a potential safety issue and wanted to share this so others become aware of the situation and can inspect their aircraft. > > We are in the process of our annual condition inspection on our mono wheel. This year is extensive since motor mounts and bungee cord need replaced. After being alerted by John Wigney of possible cracks in the lower tubes of the LG frame, we inspected and discovered our frame is cracked like his. The cracks are very difficult to find as they are somewhat hidden by the firewall and behind the vertical tubes of the frame. Using Johns photos, a strong light, and magnifying glass, we were able to see a crack in the starboard tube. A photo with our iPad actually gave the best indication of a crack. A dye penetrant test confirmed the crack. The crack in the port tube wasnt evident until the powder coat was removed. The attached document has good photos of Johns cracks. > > We removed the frame and had it repaired by an experienced A&P (FAA mechanic) using techniques called out in AC 43-13. We reamed out the tubes and machined a tube to be a tight fit similar to Mod 72 for the upper tubes except the insert is the full length of the tube. The insert is welded to the original tube with rosette welds, and the cracks were stop drilled prior to welding. One bolt hole was elongated so we changed it to AN4. > > A side note, when we started to remove the LG frame, we found that some of the mounting bolts were no longer tight. When doing your inspection, we suggest you check these nuts and if any are at all loose, inspect very carefully for cracks. > > Our mono wheel kit was purchased April 2000, kit A185 and has 975 hours. > > Jim & Heather > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484894#484894 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/181001a_photo_summary_of_landing_gear_frame_cracks_131.pdf > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:38 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Woodcomp Ground Adjustable (are they OK?) From: "n7188u" So got a little more info on the prop. It's a Woodcomp Klassic 170/3/R. Was removed from the aircraft at 380 hrs in 2017. The aircraft was serviced by SportAir before 2015 which is the Woodcomp distributor in the US so at least up to that year I know the prop was properly inspected. The prop is 2010 vintage. Not new but not so old in terms of aviation stuff I guess. This prop model is the one recommended by Woodcomp for the Europa. I think I am going to get it. The spinner is not the right size so I'll have to get one. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484897#484897 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.