Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:03 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/19 (Rayfitton)
2. 01:03 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/19 (Rayfitton)
3. 03:03 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (JonathanMilbank)
4. 03:13 AM - WOODCOMP FAILURE (Karl Heindl)
5. 03:28 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (Alan Burrill)
6. 09:57 AM - Re: WOODCOMP FAILURE (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
7. 11:21 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (Kelvin Weston)
8. 11:31 AM - Re: WOODCOMP FAILURE (Bud Yerly)
9. 11:51 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (alan_hunter1664)
10. 12:17 PM - FWF fuel line fittings (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/19 |
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>
> On Mar 15, 2019 at 06:34, <Europa-List Digest Server (mailto:europa-list@matronics.com)> wrote:
>
>
>
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 19-03-14&Archive=Europa
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 19-03-14&Archive=Europa
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Europa-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 03/14/19: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 09:34 AM - Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 (willydewey)
> 2. 10:03 PM - Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (alan_hunter1664)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:34:57 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000
> From: "willydewey" <willydewey@gmail.com>
>
>
> Burrilla wrote:
> > I assume that the two instruments are measuring the voltage at the same point
> and that the connections to the EIS are all good.
> >
> > I had a faulty reading on one sensor on mine and it turned out the pin wasnt
> locked in the plug so had shaken loose.
> >
> > If you determine it is a faulty unit I have one for sale I removed last year
> and it is functional.
> >
> > Alan Burrill
> > G-OBJT
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >
> > > On 17 Dec 2018, at 09:54, willydewey wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Guys
> > > I have an anomoly. My Grand Rapids EIS2000 reads 8.5 volts when the engine
> is running and I am in the air in the cruise. Ay the same time my supplimentary
> analogue voltmeter shows 13.8 volts as normal. Cannot stop the warning EIS
> light from flashing as a result. Any Ideas and suggestions would be much appreciated.
> > > Best Regards and I hope all you Guys have a good Christmas and a safe
and
> happy 2019
> > > Very sorry about the crash in Holland. RIP and sympathies to the families
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > --------
> > > Give a wise man knowledge and he will be yet wiser
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486339#486339
> > >
> > > HI Alan
> > > I am still struggeling with the voltage on my GR 2000 EIS and have tried
out
> the suggestions by the GR suppott team as well as those proposed by Pete Jeffers
> and David Joyce all to no avail. Its a bit uneconomical to send the unit
> back to GR and you mentioned that you had one hanging around that you might
> be willing to part with. If thats still the case how much are you asking for
it
> as it might be a cheaper route for me. unfortunatly the builder didnt leave
> any slack in the connecting cables and so just to remove the EIS its necessary
> to remove the binacle as well as the instrument panels
> > > best regards
> > > Bill Dewey GIANI
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --------
> Give a wise man knowledge and he will be yet wiser
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488069#488069
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:03:14 PM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa
> From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664@yahoo.co.uk>
>
>
> I have bought a used Rotax 912uls that has the skydrive carb heat kit installed.
> I would assume that in the UK this kit requires a formal modification for the
> Europa but I can't find one anywhere. The Kit moves the carburetors back by
> about 15mm so not sure they will fit anyway? Anyone any experience of this kit
> in the UK on the Europa or do I need to by new carburetors as I see no easy
> way to remove the kit once it is fitted?
>
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488076#488076
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0923_139.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/19 |
Unsubscribe
>
> On Mar 15, 2019 at 06:34, <Europa-List Digest Server (mailto:europa-list@matronics.com)> wrote:
>
>
>
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 19-03-14&Archive=Europa
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 19-03-14&Archive=Europa
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Europa-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 03/14/19: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 09:34 AM - Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 (willydewey)
> 2. 10:03 PM - Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (alan_hunter1664)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:34:57 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000
> From: "willydewey" <willydewey@gmail.com>
>
>
> Burrilla wrote:
> > I assume that the two instruments are measuring the voltage at the same point
> and that the connections to the EIS are all good.
> >
> > I had a faulty reading on one sensor on mine and it turned out the pin wasnt
> locked in the plug so had shaken loose.
> >
> > If you determine it is a faulty unit I have one for sale I removed last year
> and it is functional.
> >
> > Alan Burrill
> > G-OBJT
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >
> > > On 17 Dec 2018, at 09:54, willydewey wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Guys
> > > I have an anomoly. My Grand Rapids EIS2000 reads 8.5 volts when the engine
> is running and I am in the air in the cruise. Ay the same time my supplimentary
> analogue voltmeter shows 13.8 volts as normal. Cannot stop the warning EIS
> light from flashing as a result. Any Ideas and suggestions would be much appreciated.
> > > Best Regards and I hope all you Guys have a good Christmas and a safe
and
> happy 2019
> > > Very sorry about the crash in Holland. RIP and sympathies to the families
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > --------
> > > Give a wise man knowledge and he will be yet wiser
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486339#486339
> > >
> > > HI Alan
> > > I am still struggeling with the voltage on my GR 2000 EIS and have tried
out
> the suggestions by the GR suppott team as well as those proposed by Pete Jeffers
> and David Joyce all to no avail. Its a bit uneconomical to send the unit
> back to GR and you mentioned that you had one hanging around that you might
> be willing to part with. If thats still the case how much are you asking for
it
> as it might be a cheaper route for me. unfortunatly the builder didnt leave
> any slack in the connecting cables and so just to remove the EIS its necessary
> to remove the binacle as well as the instrument panels
> > > best regards
> > > Bill Dewey GIANI
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --------
> Give a wise man knowledge and he will be yet wiser
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488069#488069
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:03:14 PM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa
> From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664@yahoo.co.uk>
>
>
> I have bought a used Rotax 912uls that has the skydrive carb heat kit installed.
> I would assume that in the UK this kit requires a formal modification for the
> Europa but I can't find one anywhere. The Kit moves the carburetors back by
> about 15mm so not sure they will fit anyway? Anyone any experience of this kit
> in the UK on the Europa or do I need to by new carburetors as I see no easy
> way to remove the kit once it is fitted?
>
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488076#488076
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0923_139.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa |
Good morning Alan,
This kit is very common in the UK and I would guess that more than half of all
Europas have it fitted. In my case I simply got my inspector to sign in the log
book that I had fitted it correctly. It seems to me that your inspector's signature
would keep the LAA happy and probably whoever you bought the engine from
got such an endorsement.
In order to accommodate the extra 15 mm or so which the kit necessitates, I cut
the equivalent length off the hoses and/or spigots of the air intake filter box.
But why did I decide to install the carb heat kit at all?
Carb ice is rare in Rotax 912 engines as fitted to Europas, but it happened once
to one of my syndicate group members after a very long time at 2000 rpm idle
on the ground, while he was waiting at the runway threshold holding point. Conditions
were ideal for icing, being a chilly day with near 100% relative humidity
and quite low rpm. If he had lined up and commenced his take off run slightly
earlier, he might have experienced the the engine cut shortly after take
off rather than at the threshold.
This incident which I witnessed was enough to provoke me into buying and fitting
the Skydrive kit without delay. Even though it keeps the carburettor bodies
permanently warmed, the engine power doesn't seem to have been significantly affected.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488078#488078
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Subject: | WOODCOMP FAILURE |
i only just learned that there was a Woodcomp SR3000-2W failure 3 years ago
. Has anyone got more information on this ? How is corrosion even possible
in the aluminium hub ?
Karl?
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa |
I think there is a LAA standard mod and listed on The Europa club website, try
SM10427/1 91X series Carburettor Heater (water).
Alan Burrill
Sent from my iPhone
> On 15 Mar 2019, at 10:02, JonathanMilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Good morning Alan,
>
> This kit is very common in the UK and I would guess that more than half of all
Europas have it fitted. In my case I simply got my inspector to sign in the
log book that I had fitted it correctly. It seems to me that your inspector's
signature would keep the LAA happy and probably whoever you bought the engine
from got such an endorsement.
>
> In order to accommodate the extra 15 mm or so which the kit necessitates, I cut
the equivalent length off the hoses and/or spigots of the air intake filter
box. But why did I decide to install the carb heat kit at all?
>
> Carb ice is rare in Rotax 912 engines as fitted to Europas, but it happened once
to one of my syndicate group members after a very long time at 2000 rpm idle
on the ground, while he was waiting at the runway threshold holding point.
Conditions were ideal for icing, being a chilly day with near 100% relative humidity
and quite low rpm. If he had lined up and commenced his take off run slightly
earlier, he might have experienced the the engine cut shortly after take
off rather than at the threshold.
>
> This incident which I witnessed was enough to provoke me into buying and fitting
the Skydrive kit without delay. Even though it keeps the carburettor bodies
permanently warmed, the engine power doesn't seem to have been significantly
affected.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488078#488078
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: WOODCOMP FAILURE |
Karl, I believe it was actually an SR3000 2SP. The answer the company
would give, I think, is that these sort of problems virtually only occur
when owners ignore the prescribed services. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2019-03-15 10:07, Karl Heindl wrote:
> i only just learned that there was a Woodcomp SR3000-2W failure 3 years ago.
Has anyone got more information on this ? How is corrosion even possible in the
aluminium hub ?
>
> Karl?
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa |
Hi Alan
Try this link to the LAA website:
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Standard%20Mods/rotaxEngine.html
The Skydrive kit is covered by Rotax Standard Mod SM10427 as stated earlier.
Your inspector will need to sign off using form LAA/MOD 1 also available on the
LAA website:
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/standardforms.html
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.biz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488090#488090
Message 8
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Subject: | WOODCOMP FAILURE |
Karl,
This may sound like an advertisement. I=92m afraid it is somewhat, but jus
t intended as a rant. I=92ve installed many props and maintained many more
. I=92ve hung Airmasters, Warp Drives, Sensenich and Ivo=92s on Rotax, Jab
iru, UL, Eggenfeller now called Viking engines.
A number of Pipistrel owners have had failures of the SR3000 over the last
24 months. Mostly I have been given the following from Pipistrel Dealers i
n Colorado and Florida (Pipistrel factory is not releasing failures or writ
ing them up): one blade departed the aircraft in flight (Canada Experiment
al) no previous damage reported pilot was able to land still under power, b
ut the aircraft was trashed due to extreme vibration. Internal failure of
the blade angle drive mechanism (two in the US) allowing one blade to turn/
twist and the other (s) not, pilots reported extreme vibration and landed s
afely. One other that just wouldn=92t track which seemed to be a pending f
ailure of the blade bearing. All these Pipistrel aircraft had less than 15
0 hours. In the US, Pipistrel owners and some dealers are my best customer
s as I have had three Woodcomp owners change to the Airmaster in 2018 alone
due to failures, and another this year so far as he sent the prop back bec
ause he was unable to find maintenance for the prop. Other Pipistrel owner
s have gone to the MT as they wanted a certified prop, which is a great pro
p also. The Pipistrel takes a 64 inch blade, same as the Europa.
Prop maintenance, I believe, is the main concern with others who have calle
d me over the winter and are just looking, as once they become advised of t
he maintenance intervals and who has to do the maintenance, the maintenance
inspection interval and repair costs become a concern for US owners. With
a TBO of 1200 Hrs on most, and 60 months max between overhauls and on top
of that, inspections must be made by qualified personnel every 150 hours, a
nd at 300 hours the prop must be shipped back to the factory or authorized
service center, so you can see why folks start looking at operating costs i
n the US. The Airmaster was the choice for these Pipistrel folks who had t
o fork out the cash for as the Airmaster. The Airmaster has a 2500 hour re
commended overhaul on the whole prop, and maintenance that is easily perfor
med by the owner operator or any aviation mechanic, so it was easy for thes
e folks to upgrade.
Properly maintained by qualified people, the Woodcomp is a good prop. But
it has to be maintained properly. Other European/Asian/Australian prop bla
des for experimental aircraft tend to be lighter than US made blades such a
s Whirlwind, Warp Drive or Sensenich, (Ivo excluded). I believe that may b
e some of the problem. Flexible blades tend to cause harmonic and fatigue
problems in a CS hub (Kiev props are notorious). In the Airmaster, we have
had reported vibration problems and blade skin separation of one or more o
f these flexible blades, and we replaced them with American Blades, so I ha
ve a list of blades I will not put into a constant speed hub EVER. These b
lades can=92t take the hub twist as they flex too much under full power. P
roblem is, the US blades are heavier.
Just Google Woodcomp Propeller Failures (or any prop manufacturer for that
matter) and you get many, but they are vague reasons or incomplete stories
on the failure. Some of the prop failures are just dumb. Case in point:
On post flight, the prop was found to have =BD inch missing from the tips a
nd one of the blades was split. No vibration noticed, engine and prop ran
fine. Warp Drive blade in an Airmaster AP332 hub. 150 hours TT. Of course
what wasn=92t reported is the pilot tried to land a motor glider at 90 kno
ts and shoved the stick forward on nose wheel touchdown, just as he did in
the 727, to stick it on. Prop strike was never entered into the comments.
Plane and engine/prop ran fine. FBO personnel met the pilot when he was p
ushing the plane back in the hangar. Incident not reported to the Airport
Authority or the FAA. So some failures have to be further investigated. Lu
ckily, in this incident, the FBO and everyone at the airport heard the prop
hit. The ego is a heck of a thing. $3500 repair. With an electric prop,
the most common failure is: brushes and breaking of brush studs because th
ey are brass and can=92t hack 10 foot pounds of torque. Typical call or vi
deo is by Joe Bag of Doughnuts maintainer/pilot reporting a failure from no
t looking at the brushes. (Comment was typically =93It stopped working!=94
, =93Red lights flashing=94) Seems to happen about every 300 hours. I ask,
=93Did you check your brushes?=94 and the answer is usually, =93What brush
es!=94 I=92ll take those kind of failures. The prop stopped working and I
=92m OK but it was scary as that prop was stuck in cruise.
Practice prop failure just like runaway trim failure and fly the airplane a
s any automatic electric or hydraulic system failure must be anticipated an
d procedures and techniques practiced to compensate. Put the procedure in
your checklist so you are not surprised. Keeps the heart rate down, and pr
events brown stains on the cushions.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 6:07:28 AM
Subject: Europa-List: WOODCOMP FAILURE
i only just learned that there was a Woodcomp SR3000-2W failure 3 years ago
. Has anyone got more information on this ? How is corrosion even possible
in the aluminium hub ?
Karl?
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa |
That is good news, Thank you for your responses.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488092#488092
Message 10
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Subject: | FWF fuel line fittings |
I=99m reminded of the value of this list after contacting Ron
Pagoris who had not posted for a long timeand I want to thank
him for bringing to my attention the subject of the use of aluminum fuel
line fittings in the engine compartment.
Further research on the subject generated this response from Bud which
he willingly shares with our list:
> Fred,
> I do not have problems with aluminum AN fittings. I do have problems
with FWF techniques:
>
> AN fittings or even steel flare fittings need some sort of fastening
to prevent loosening, which is common. I see some of the fittings you
use have a safety wire hole. Use it. They do loosen, especially on
fuel injection lines. Hence the automotive and marine industry is going
to special fittings. Oil fittings get safety wiring also.
>
> I also have problems with any hard line going to an engine, from a
firewall. That is a broken fitting waiting to happen. The engine to
fuselage fitting should always be a flexible line of course. If the
line is steel braded or firm rubber, its flare fitting will tend to
loosen with age without some sort of fastener fixing them such as safety
wire or crimp anti spin connector. Reason, over time the shake of the
engine and the firm rubber or braded line will shake until the flare
fitting begins to loosen. We had this problem on jet engines. Safety
wire flare fittings in some way. If the flare fitting has no safety
wire hole, I use a Breeze clamp bent to fit on a fitting (like on the
oil tank fittings on the Rotax) rather than drilling the nut edge. Once
I have the Breeze clamp fitted, I safety wire the Breeze clamp screw so
it won=99t loosen, then safety wire the clamp to a fixed point to
assure the fitting stays tight.
>
> That said, I tend to use push on or barb fittings screwed into an NPT
fitting for oil and fuel with specified clamps so the fitting won=99
t loosen. However, Aluminum NPT fittings can crack if not supported
properly, maybe that is why your inspector prefers brass, which bends,
or steel which is much stronger. He may have been concerned about the
90 degree fitting coming off the fuel line manifold for bending. I
can=99t say. What I can see in the photo looks like a safe
fitting if it is suitable for the fuel or oil temp and pressure
requirements of the engine manufactuer.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
While I will continue with my aluminum fittings, I will most certainly
ensure that they are properly safety-wired! Thanks Ron & Bud!
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