Europa-List Digest Archive

Fri 03/15/19


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:03 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/19 (Rayfitton)
     2. 01:03 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/19 (Rayfitton)
     3. 03:03 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (JonathanMilbank)
     4. 03:13 AM - WOODCOMP FAILURE (Karl Heindl)
     5. 03:28 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (Alan Burrill)
     6. 09:57 AM - Re: WOODCOMP FAILURE (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
     7. 11:21 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (Kelvin Weston)
     8. 11:31 AM - Re: WOODCOMP FAILURE (Bud Yerly)
     9. 11:51 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (alan_hunter1664)
    10. 12:17 PM - FWF fuel line fittings (Fred Klein)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:03:50 AM PST US
    From: Rayfitton <rayfitton@virginmedia.com>
    Subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/19
    Unsubscribe > > On Mar 15, 2019 at 06:34, <Europa-List Digest Server (mailto:europa-list@matronics.com)> wrote: > > > > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 19-03-14&Archive=Europa > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 19-03-14&Archive=Europa > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Europa-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 03/14/19: 2 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 09:34 AM - Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 (willydewey) > 2. 10:03 PM - Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (alan_hunter1664) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:34:57 AM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 > From: "willydewey" <willydewey@gmail.com> > > > Burrilla wrote: > > I assume that the two instruments are measuring the voltage at the same point > and that the connections to the EIS are all good. > > > > I had a faulty reading on one sensor on mine and it turned out the pin wasnt > locked in the plug so had shaken loose. > > > > If you determine it is a faulty unit I have one for sale I removed last year > and it is functional. > > > > Alan Burrill > > G-OBJT > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > On 17 Dec 2018, at 09:54, willydewey wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys > > > I have an anomoly. My Grand Rapids EIS2000 reads 8.5 volts when the engine > is running and I am in the air in the cruise. Ay the same time my supplimentary > analogue voltmeter shows 13.8 volts as normal. Cannot stop the warning EIS > light from flashing as a result. Any Ideas and suggestions would be much appreciated. > > > Best Regards and I hope all you Guys have a good Christmas and a safe and > happy 2019 > > > Very sorry about the crash in Holland. RIP and sympathies to the families > > > Bill > > > > > > -------- > > > Give a wise man knowledge and he will be yet wiser > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486339#486339 > > > > > > HI Alan > > > I am still struggeling with the voltage on my GR 2000 EIS and have tried out > the suggestions by the GR suppott team as well as those proposed by Pete Jeffers > and David Joyce all to no avail. Its a bit uneconomical to send the unit > back to GR and you mentioned that you had one hanging around that you might > be willing to part with. If thats still the case how much are you asking for it > as it might be a cheaper route for me. unfortunatly the builder didnt leave > any slack in the connecting cables and so just to remove the EIS its necessary > to remove the binacle as well as the instrument panels > > > best regards > > > Bill Dewey GIANI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- > Give a wise man knowledge and he will be yet wiser > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488069#488069 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:03:14 PM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa > From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664@yahoo.co.uk> > > > I have bought a used Rotax 912uls that has the skydrive carb heat kit installed. > I would assume that in the UK this kit requires a formal modification for the > Europa but I can't find one anywhere. The Kit moves the carburetors back by > about 15mm so not sure they will fit anyway? Anyone any experience of this kit > in the UK on the Europa or do I need to by new carburetors as I see no easy > way to remove the kit once it is fitted? > > Alan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488076#488076 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0923_139.jpg > > > > > > > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:03:51 AM PST US
    From: Rayfitton <rayfitton@virginmedia.com>
    Subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/19
    Unsubscribe > > On Mar 15, 2019 at 06:34, <Europa-List Digest Server (mailto:europa-list@matronics.com)> wrote: > > > > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 19-03-14&Archive=Europa > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 19-03-14&Archive=Europa > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Europa-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 03/14/19: 2 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 09:34 AM - Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 (willydewey) > 2. 10:03 PM - Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa (alan_hunter1664) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:34:57 AM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 > From: "willydewey" <willydewey@gmail.com> > > > Burrilla wrote: > > I assume that the two instruments are measuring the voltage at the same point > and that the connections to the EIS are all good. > > > > I had a faulty reading on one sensor on mine and it turned out the pin wasnt > locked in the plug so had shaken loose. > > > > If you determine it is a faulty unit I have one for sale I removed last year > and it is functional. > > > > Alan Burrill > > G-OBJT > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > On 17 Dec 2018, at 09:54, willydewey wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys > > > I have an anomoly. My Grand Rapids EIS2000 reads 8.5 volts when the engine > is running and I am in the air in the cruise. Ay the same time my supplimentary > analogue voltmeter shows 13.8 volts as normal. Cannot stop the warning EIS > light from flashing as a result. Any Ideas and suggestions would be much appreciated. > > > Best Regards and I hope all you Guys have a good Christmas and a safe and > happy 2019 > > > Very sorry about the crash in Holland. RIP and sympathies to the families > > > Bill > > > > > > -------- > > > Give a wise man knowledge and he will be yet wiser > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486339#486339 > > > > > > HI Alan > > > I am still struggeling with the voltage on my GR 2000 EIS and have tried out > the suggestions by the GR suppott team as well as those proposed by Pete Jeffers > and David Joyce all to no avail. Its a bit uneconomical to send the unit > back to GR and you mentioned that you had one hanging around that you might > be willing to part with. If thats still the case how much are you asking for it > as it might be a cheaper route for me. unfortunatly the builder didnt leave > any slack in the connecting cables and so just to remove the EIS its necessary > to remove the binacle as well as the instrument panels > > > best regards > > > Bill Dewey GIANI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- > Give a wise man knowledge and he will be yet wiser > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488069#488069 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:03:14 PM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa > From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664@yahoo.co.uk> > > > I have bought a used Rotax 912uls that has the skydrive carb heat kit installed. > I would assume that in the UK this kit requires a formal modification for the > Europa but I can't find one anywhere. The Kit moves the carburetors back by > about 15mm so not sure they will fit anyway? Anyone any experience of this kit > in the UK on the Europa or do I need to by new carburetors as I see no easy > way to remove the kit once it is fitted? > > Alan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488076#488076 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0923_139.jpg > > > > > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 03:03:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa
    From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
    Good morning Alan, This kit is very common in the UK and I would guess that more than half of all Europas have it fitted. In my case I simply got my inspector to sign in the log book that I had fitted it correctly. It seems to me that your inspector's signature would keep the LAA happy and probably whoever you bought the engine from got such an endorsement. In order to accommodate the extra 15 mm or so which the kit necessitates, I cut the equivalent length off the hoses and/or spigots of the air intake filter box. But why did I decide to install the carb heat kit at all? Carb ice is rare in Rotax 912 engines as fitted to Europas, but it happened once to one of my syndicate group members after a very long time at 2000 rpm idle on the ground, while he was waiting at the runway threshold holding point. Conditions were ideal for icing, being a chilly day with near 100% relative humidity and quite low rpm. If he had lined up and commenced his take off run slightly earlier, he might have experienced the the engine cut shortly after take off rather than at the threshold. This incident which I witnessed was enough to provoke me into buying and fitting the Skydrive kit without delay. Even though it keeps the carburettor bodies permanently warmed, the engine power doesn't seem to have been significantly affected. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488078#488078


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:13:10 AM PST US
    From: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
    Subject: WOODCOMP FAILURE
    i only just learned that there was a Woodcomp SR3000-2W failure 3 years ago . Has anyone got more information on this ? How is corrosion even possible in the aluminium hub ? Karl?


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:28:43 AM PST US
    From: Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa
    I think there is a LAA standard mod and listed on The Europa club website, try SM10427/1 91X series Carburettor Heater (water). Alan Burrill Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Mar 2019, at 10:02, JonathanMilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > Good morning Alan, > > This kit is very common in the UK and I would guess that more than half of all Europas have it fitted. In my case I simply got my inspector to sign in the log book that I had fitted it correctly. It seems to me that your inspector's signature would keep the LAA happy and probably whoever you bought the engine from got such an endorsement. > > In order to accommodate the extra 15 mm or so which the kit necessitates, I cut the equivalent length off the hoses and/or spigots of the air intake filter box. But why did I decide to install the carb heat kit at all? > > Carb ice is rare in Rotax 912 engines as fitted to Europas, but it happened once to one of my syndicate group members after a very long time at 2000 rpm idle on the ground, while he was waiting at the runway threshold holding point. Conditions were ideal for icing, being a chilly day with near 100% relative humidity and quite low rpm. If he had lined up and commenced his take off run slightly earlier, he might have experienced the the engine cut shortly after take off rather than at the threshold. > > This incident which I witnessed was enough to provoke me into buying and fitting the Skydrive kit without delay. Even though it keeps the carburettor bodies permanently warmed, the engine power doesn't seem to have been significantly affected. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488078#488078 > > > > > > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:57:52 AM PST US
    From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
    Subject: Re: WOODCOMP FAILURE
    Karl, I believe it was actually an SR3000 2SP. The answer the company would give, I think, is that these sort of problems virtually only occur when owners ignore the prescribed services. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2019-03-15 10:07, Karl Heindl wrote: > i only just learned that there was a Woodcomp SR3000-2W failure 3 years ago. Has anyone got more information on this ? How is corrosion even possible in the aluminium hub ? > > Karl?


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:21:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa
    From: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv@kdweston.biz>
    Hi Alan Try this link to the LAA website: http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Standard%20Mods/rotaxEngine.html The Skydrive kit is covered by Rotax Standard Mod SM10427 as stated earlier. Your inspector will need to sign off using form LAA/MOD 1 also available on the LAA website: http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/standardforms.html -------- Regards Kelv Weston Kit 497 kelv@kdweston.biz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488090#488090


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:31:16 AM PST US
    From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
    Subject: WOODCOMP FAILURE
    Karl, This may sound like an advertisement. I=92m afraid it is somewhat, but jus t intended as a rant. I=92ve installed many props and maintained many more . I=92ve hung Airmasters, Warp Drives, Sensenich and Ivo=92s on Rotax, Jab iru, UL, Eggenfeller now called Viking engines. A number of Pipistrel owners have had failures of the SR3000 over the last 24 months. Mostly I have been given the following from Pipistrel Dealers i n Colorado and Florida (Pipistrel factory is not releasing failures or writ ing them up): one blade departed the aircraft in flight (Canada Experiment al) no previous damage reported pilot was able to land still under power, b ut the aircraft was trashed due to extreme vibration. Internal failure of the blade angle drive mechanism (two in the US) allowing one blade to turn/ twist and the other (s) not, pilots reported extreme vibration and landed s afely. One other that just wouldn=92t track which seemed to be a pending f ailure of the blade bearing. All these Pipistrel aircraft had less than 15 0 hours. In the US, Pipistrel owners and some dealers are my best customer s as I have had three Woodcomp owners change to the Airmaster in 2018 alone due to failures, and another this year so far as he sent the prop back bec ause he was unable to find maintenance for the prop. Other Pipistrel owner s have gone to the MT as they wanted a certified prop, which is a great pro p also. The Pipistrel takes a 64 inch blade, same as the Europa. Prop maintenance, I believe, is the main concern with others who have calle d me over the winter and are just looking, as once they become advised of t he maintenance intervals and who has to do the maintenance, the maintenance inspection interval and repair costs become a concern for US owners. With a TBO of 1200 Hrs on most, and 60 months max between overhauls and on top of that, inspections must be made by qualified personnel every 150 hours, a nd at 300 hours the prop must be shipped back to the factory or authorized service center, so you can see why folks start looking at operating costs i n the US. The Airmaster was the choice for these Pipistrel folks who had t o fork out the cash for as the Airmaster. The Airmaster has a 2500 hour re commended overhaul on the whole prop, and maintenance that is easily perfor med by the owner operator or any aviation mechanic, so it was easy for thes e folks to upgrade. Properly maintained by qualified people, the Woodcomp is a good prop. But it has to be maintained properly. Other European/Asian/Australian prop bla des for experimental aircraft tend to be lighter than US made blades such a s Whirlwind, Warp Drive or Sensenich, (Ivo excluded). I believe that may b e some of the problem. Flexible blades tend to cause harmonic and fatigue problems in a CS hub (Kiev props are notorious). In the Airmaster, we have had reported vibration problems and blade skin separation of one or more o f these flexible blades, and we replaced them with American Blades, so I ha ve a list of blades I will not put into a constant speed hub EVER. These b lades can=92t take the hub twist as they flex too much under full power. P roblem is, the US blades are heavier. Just Google Woodcomp Propeller Failures (or any prop manufacturer for that matter) and you get many, but they are vague reasons or incomplete stories on the failure. Some of the prop failures are just dumb. Case in point: On post flight, the prop was found to have =BD inch missing from the tips a nd one of the blades was split. No vibration noticed, engine and prop ran fine. Warp Drive blade in an Airmaster AP332 hub. 150 hours TT. Of course what wasn=92t reported is the pilot tried to land a motor glider at 90 kno ts and shoved the stick forward on nose wheel touchdown, just as he did in the 727, to stick it on. Prop strike was never entered into the comments. Plane and engine/prop ran fine. FBO personnel met the pilot when he was p ushing the plane back in the hangar. Incident not reported to the Airport Authority or the FAA. So some failures have to be further investigated. Lu ckily, in this incident, the FBO and everyone at the airport heard the prop hit. The ego is a heck of a thing. $3500 repair. With an electric prop, the most common failure is: brushes and breaking of brush studs because th ey are brass and can=92t hack 10 foot pounds of torque. Typical call or vi deo is by Joe Bag of Doughnuts maintainer/pilot reporting a failure from no t looking at the brushes. (Comment was typically =93It stopped working!=94 , =93Red lights flashing=94) Seems to happen about every 300 hours. I ask, =93Did you check your brushes?=94 and the answer is usually, =93What brush es!=94 I=92ll take those kind of failures. The prop stopped working and I =92m OK but it was scary as that prop was stuck in cruise. Practice prop failure just like runaway trim failure and fly the airplane a s any automatic electric or hydraulic system failure must be anticipated an d procedures and techniques practiced to compensate. Put the procedure in your checklist so you are not surprised. Keeps the heart rate down, and pr events brown stains on the cushions. Best Regards, Bud Yerly Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window s 10 ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr onics.com> on behalf of Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 6:07:28 AM Subject: Europa-List: WOODCOMP FAILURE i only just learned that there was a Woodcomp SR3000-2W failure 3 years ago . Has anyone got more information on this ? How is corrosion even possible in the aluminium hub ? Karl?


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:51:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 Carb heat for Europa
    From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664@yahoo.co.uk>
    That is good news, Thank you for your responses. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488092#488092


    Message 10


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    Time: 12:17:53 PM PST US
    From: Fred Klein <freddythek10@gmail.com>
    Subject: FWF fuel line fittings
    I=99m reminded of the value of this list after contacting Ron Pagoris who had not posted for a long timeand I want to thank him for bringing to my attention the subject of the use of aluminum fuel line fittings in the engine compartment. Further research on the subject generated this response from Bud which he willingly shares with our list: > Fred, > I do not have problems with aluminum AN fittings. I do have problems with FWF techniques: > > AN fittings or even steel flare fittings need some sort of fastening to prevent loosening, which is common. I see some of the fittings you use have a safety wire hole. Use it. They do loosen, especially on fuel injection lines. Hence the automotive and marine industry is going to special fittings. Oil fittings get safety wiring also. > > I also have problems with any hard line going to an engine, from a firewall. That is a broken fitting waiting to happen. The engine to fuselage fitting should always be a flexible line of course. If the line is steel braded or firm rubber, its flare fitting will tend to loosen with age without some sort of fastener fixing them such as safety wire or crimp anti spin connector. Reason, over time the shake of the engine and the firm rubber or braded line will shake until the flare fitting begins to loosen. We had this problem on jet engines. Safety wire flare fittings in some way. If the flare fitting has no safety wire hole, I use a Breeze clamp bent to fit on a fitting (like on the oil tank fittings on the Rotax) rather than drilling the nut edge. Once I have the Breeze clamp fitted, I safety wire the Breeze clamp screw so it won=99t loosen, then safety wire the clamp to a fixed point to assure the fitting stays tight. > > That said, I tend to use push on or barb fittings screwed into an NPT fitting for oil and fuel with specified clamps so the fitting won=99 t loosen. However, Aluminum NPT fittings can crack if not supported properly, maybe that is why your inspector prefers brass, which bends, or steel which is much stronger. He may have been concerned about the 90 degree fitting coming off the fuel line manifold for bending. I can=99t say. What I can see in the photo looks like a safe fitting if it is suitable for the fuel or oil temp and pressure requirements of the engine manufactuer. > > Best Regards, > Bud Yerly While I will continue with my aluminum fittings, I will most certainly ensure that they are properly safety-wired! Thanks Ron & Bud!




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