Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:16 AM - Weight and balance (Bill)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: Weight and balance (SPURPURA)
3. 06:23 AM - Re: Weight and balance (Pete)
4. 08:20 AM - Re: Weight and balance (Robert Borger)
5. 11:32 AM - Re: Weight and balance (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
6. 11:54 AM - Re: Weight and balance (Bud Yerly)
7. 12:33 PM - Re: Choke (Bud Yerly)
8. 12:45 PM - Re: Weight and balance (Bill)
9. 01:22 PM - Re: Weight and balance (Bill)
10. 01:35 PM - Re: Weight and balance (Rowland Carson)
11. 03:36 PM - Re: Weight and balance (Steve Ivell)
12. 03:37 PM - Re: Weight and balance (Bud Yerly)
13. 04:29 PM - Re: Weight and balance (Bill)
14. 04:34 PM - Re: Weight and balance (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Weight and balance |
Hello everyone,
After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 -
40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I
want it. The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights,
etc. Currently I'm planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box
as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar).
Thanks,
Bill
N51EU
Europa Monowheel Classic
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
Can you move the battery forward?
--------
N951EU - Tri-gear & 912ULS, N77EU- Mono & 914
I'D RATHER HAVE A BOTTLE IN FRONT OF ME THAN A FRONTAL LABOTAMY.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488218#488218
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
hi Bill,
Thats a switch, i kept hearing the need to weight in the tail, with airmaste
r props, batteries, and 914's up front. What engine are your running?
Hoping for a light turbo 120hp 4-cyl d-motor in mine, i was prepared to exte
nd the engine forward as (if) required.
Cheers,
Pete
> On Mar 24, 2019, at 7:15 AM, Bill <europa10@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
>
> Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30
=93 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG
where I want it. The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
>
> I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights
, etc. Currently I=99m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax g
ear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel
bar).
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> N51EU
> Europa Monowheel Classic
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
Bill,
You don=99t say where you have the battery. My Europa was
originally a tail heavy mono but I had the battery under the baggage
bay. Moving the battery & master relay forward to the top of the
footwell solved the problem for me. Removing all that heavy cable run
cut the overall weight by a couple pounds as well. Always better to
move weight rather than add it if you can.
Best wishes on your newly finished aircraft.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (130 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules
Prop.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Mar 24, 2019, at 6:15 AM, Bill <europa10@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Hello everyone,
After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing
30 =93 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get
the CG where I want it. The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added
weights, etc. Currently I=99m planning on adding weight on top of
the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the
weight (5x5 steel bar).
Thanks,
Bill
N51EU
Europa Monowheel Classic
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
Bill, Very surprised to hear that. I don't think I have come across that
degree of imbalance. The idea of carrying an extra 30+ lbs around
strapped to the gear box is appalling! I would be very tempted to
re-weigh and carefully check the sums. But what engine & prop have you
and where is your battery? If the battery is in the back then shift it
on top of the footwell forward of the firewall. That will save some
weight with reduced cabling and of course move the C of G forward. Have
you got a wobbly prop? If not that adds a good amount at optimum forward
position, quite apart from seriously improving performance. Tell us more
perhaps including the weighings so we could check the C of G
calculations.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2019-03-24 11:15, Bill wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
>
> Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 -
40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want
it. The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
>
> I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.
Currently I'm planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there
are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> N51EU
>
> Europa Monowheel Classic
Message 6
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| Subject: | Weight and balance |
It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.
If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, i
s equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I wou
ld expect that may happen.
(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds. Your 30-40 pounds
sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire a
nd antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy. Also, a Deutz tractor gasola
tor (about 10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight t
hat much.)
Solutions:
Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell.
A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight. Airm
aster 332 3 blade 26 pounds)
If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds api
ece, get rid of them.
Finally:
Recheck your scales. (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale
is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.)
Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level fli
ght is subtracted out. Check the math.
Make sure the fuel tank is empty.
Keep us posted. It=92s probably just a math and weight error.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Weight and balance
Hello everyone,
After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30
' 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where
I want it. The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights,
etc. Currently I=92m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear b
ox as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar
).
Thanks,
Bill
N51EU
Europa Monowheel Classic
Message 7
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Eoin,
I missed your email on the list.
In my troubleshooting guide I explain the choke friction problem. I did a
post a few weeks ago on my T handle to add some grip to the handle and not
having the knob pull off.
Please read my troubleshooting guide on line. www.customflightcreations.co
m<http://www.customflightcreations.com> techniques section under engine rel
ated.
Lube on the cable helps, but making sure the cables are left long and loopy
, see photo=92s on how I run the cables, then smooth the 90 degree bent tub
e nice and smooth. I summarized this in the cable etiquette article attache
d also.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations.
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Eoin Maguire <eoinmaguire@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 7:04:59 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Choke
Hi all
Just wondering has anyone else experienced a choke that is next or near imp
ossible to pull. I=92ve installed a new choke and cables that I got from Ka
ren, cables move fine when not connected to the carbs, each individual chok
e mechanism on each carb also move fine but when connected up the whole lot
is very very stiff, nearly to the point of it being impossible to pull !
Any ideas ?
Kind Regards
Eoin
Sent from my iPhone
Message 8
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| Subject: | Weight and balance |
Bud,
Thanks for the response.
Don't guess I'll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the boss has said NO
even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6th..
Hope it doesn't flood you out like last year.
Here's what I've got:
912ULS
Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod.
With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 per
the manual.
Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.)
Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5. I've
checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.) That extra
1 - 1.5 inches would sure make a difference.
Battery on top of the passenger foot well.
Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage
bay.
I've checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly but will
check again. They weigh correctly with me on them.
I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30
lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight
configurations.
I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to double
check me with another set of scales.
Thanks,
Bill
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.
If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, is
equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I would
expect that may happen.
(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds. Your 30-40 pounds
sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire and
antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy. Also, a Deutz tractor gasolator
(about 10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight that
much.)
Solutions:
Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell.
A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight.
Airmaster 332 3 blade 26 pounds)
If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds
apiece, get rid of them.
Finally:
Recheck your scales. (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale
is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.)
Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level
flight is subtracted out. Check the math.
Make sure the fuel tank is empty.
Keep us posted. It's probably just a math and weight error.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Bill
<europa10@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Weight and balance
Hello everyone,
After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 -
40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I
want it. The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights,
etc. Currently I'm planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box
as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar).
Thanks,
Bill
N51EU
Europa Monowheel Classic
Message 9
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| Subject: | Weight and balance |
Pete,
Thanks for the response. I just responded to Bud=99s note will
all the particulars.
Don=99t know if you=99ve got the classic or the XS. I know
the engine on the XS is further forward than on my classic so I would
expect the XS to be more nose heavy.
Bill
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Weight and balance
hi Bill,
Thats a switch, i kept hearing the need to weight in the tail, with
airmaster props, batteries, and 914's up front. What engine are your
running?
Hoping for a light turbo 120hp 4-cyl d-motor in mine, i was prepared to
extend the engine forward as (if) required.
Cheers,
Pete
On Mar 24, 2019, at 7:15 AM, Bill <europa10@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Hello everyone,
After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing
30 =93 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get
the CG where I want it. The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added
weights, etc. Currently I=99m planning on adding weight on top of
the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the
weight (5x5 steel bar).
Thanks,
Bill
N51EU
Europa Monowheel Classic
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
On 2019-03-24, at 19:44, Bill <europa10@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30 lbs.
there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight configurations.
Bill - Im a little bit concerned that the engine mount might not have been stressed
for an extra 30lb mass so far forward - would any propeller be that much
heavier than a plain vanilla Warp Drive?
Also, if your main wheel is not at the expected station that affects the math -
but I imagine you have done the appropriate correction.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
Did you fill the tail with lead??!! Lol
Steve Ivell
Oldham
07971 128842
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 8:22:17 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
Pete,
Thanks for the response. I just responded to Bud=92s note will all the par
ticulars.
Don=92t know if you=92ve got the classic or the XS. I know the engine on t
he XS is further forward than on my classic so I would expect the XS to be
more nose heavy.
Bill
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Weight and balance
hi Bill,
Thats a switch, i kept hearing the need to weight in the tail, with airmast
er props, batteries, and 914's up front. What engine are your running?
Hoping for a light turbo 120hp 4-cyl d-motor in mine, i was prepared to ext
end the engine forward as (if) required.
Cheers,
Pete
On Mar 24, 2019, at 7:15 AM, Bill <europa10@bellsouth.net<mailto:europa10@b
ellsouth.net>> wrote:
Hello everyone,
After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30
' 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where
I want it. The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights,
etc. Currently I=92m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear b
ox as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar
).
Thanks,
Bill
N51EU
Europa Monowheel Classic
Message 12
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| Subject: | Weight and balance |
Rain and frontal passages this time of year is always a concern for a day o
r so.
I don=92t want to insult, but make sure you are measuring the correct joggl
e. Basically it is the cowl line. If you are using the front of your cowl
or the joint line for an XS that would be about an inch and a half off if
you are measuring from the joint line or cowl face. The measurement for th
e zero datum is not the cowl face. It is the original prop flange distance
of the prototype Classic.
The joggle on the molding of all Europas is 29.25 inches aft of the datum.
Level the plane at the door sill or your level data point. Drop a plumb b
ob from the left and right joggle and draw a line between them. From that
line measure 29.25 inches forward of that horizontal line and you have the
zero datum. Measure then the main and tail wheel for the mono from that po
int.
Recalculate your datum using the above and take a hard look at the detail i
n chapter 6 of the POH and I believe you will solve your balance issue.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:44:19 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
Bud,
Thanks for the response.
Don=92t guess I=92ll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the boss has sai
d NO even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6th=85.
Hope it doesn=92t flood you out like last year.
Here=92s what I=92ve got:
912ULS
Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod.
With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 per
the manual.
Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.)
Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5. I=92
ve checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.) That e
xtra 1 ' 1.5 inches would sure make a difference.
Battery on top of the passenger foot well.
Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage ba
y.
I=92ve checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly but will
check again. They weigh correctly with me on them.
I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30
lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight
configurations.
I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to double
check me with another set of scales.
Thanks,
Bill
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.
If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, i
s equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I wou
ld expect that may happen.
(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds. Your 30-40 pounds
sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire a
nd antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy. Also, a Deutz tractor gasola
tor (about 10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight t
hat much.)
Solutions:
Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell.
A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight. Airm
aster 332 3 blade 26 pounds)
If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds api
ece, get rid of them.
Finally:
Recheck your scales. (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale
is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.)
Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level fli
ght is subtracted out. Check the math.
Make sure the fuel tank is empty.
Keep us posted. It=92s probably just a math and weight error.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Weight and balance
Hello everyone,
After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30
' 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where
I want it. The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights,
etc. Currently I=92m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear b
ox as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar
).
Thanks,
Bill
N51EU
Europa Monowheel Classic
Message 13
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| Subject: | Weight and balance |
Bud,
I checked the measurements multiple times and also did as you noted below.
Still get the same measurements using your method. Guess I've got a scale
problem. I will try some other scales with some friends at the airport that
have weighed other planes.
Also got a note from Ivan warning against putting extra weight on the engine
so I won't be doing that. Hopefully it's just my scales reading incorrectly
at high weights. I'm also going to try loading them up with known weights
to check.
Thanks for the help.
Hope you have a good week at Sun-n-Fun!
Bill
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 6:37 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
Rain and frontal passages this time of year is always a concern for a day or
so.
I don't want to insult, but make sure you are measuring the correct joggle.
Basically it is the cowl line. If you are using the front of your cowl or
the joint line for an XS that would be about an inch and a half off if you
are measuring from the joint line or cowl face. The measurement for the
zero datum is not the cowl face. It is the original prop flange distance of
the prototype Classic.
The joggle on the molding of all Europas is 29.25 inches aft of the datum.
Level the plane at the door sill or your level data point. Drop a plumb bob
from the left and right joggle and draw a line between them. From that line
measure 29.25 inches forward of that horizontal line and you have the zero
datum. Measure then the main and tail wheel for the mono from that point.
Recalculate your datum using the above and take a hard look at the detail in
chapter 6 of the POH and I believe you will solve your balance issue.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Bill
<europa10@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:44:19 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
Bud,
Thanks for the response.
Don't guess I'll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the boss has said NO
even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6th..
Hope it doesn't flood you out like last year.
Here's what I've got:
912ULS
Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod.
With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 per
the manual.
Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.)
Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5. I've
checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.) That extra
1 - 15 inches would sure make a difference.
Battery on top of the passenger foot well.
Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage
bay.
I've checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly but will
check again. They weigh correctly with me on them.
I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30
lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight
configurations.
I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to double
check me with another set of scales.
Thanks,
Bill
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.
If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, is
equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I would
expect that may happen.
(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds. Your 30-40 pounds
sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire and
antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy. Also, a Deutz tractor gasolator
(about 10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight that
much.)
Solutions:
Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell.
A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight.
Airmaster 332 3 blade 26 pounds)
If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds
apiece, get rid of them.
Finally:
Recheck your scales. (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale
is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.)
Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level
flight is subtracted out. Check the math.
Make sure the fuel tank is empty.
Keep us posted. It's probably just a math and weight error.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Bill
<europa10@bellsouthnet>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Weight and balance
Hello everyone,
After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 -
40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I
want it. The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights,
etc. Currently I'm planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box
as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar).
Thanks,
Bill
N51EU
Europa Monowheel Classic
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
I took my scales to the gym and put 1000 lb of barbells on them...
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 24, 2019, at 4:28 PM, Bill <europa10@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Bud,
>
> I checked the measurements multiple times and also did as you noted below.
Still get the same measurements using your method. Guess I=99ve got
a scale problem. I will try some other scales with some friends at the air
port that have weighed other planes.
> Also got a note from Ivan warning against putting extra weight on the engi
ne so I won=99t be doing that. Hopefully it=99s just my scales r
eading incorrectly at high weights. I=99m also going to try loading t
hem up with known weights to check.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Hope you have a good week at Sun-n-Fun!
>
> Bill
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 6:37 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
>
> Rain and frontal passages this time of year is always a concern for a day o
r so.
>
> I don=99t want to insult, but make sure you are measuring the correc
t joggle. Basically it is the cowl line. If you are using the front of you
r cowl or the joint line for an XS that would be about an inch and a half of
f if you are measuring from the joint line or cowl face. The measurement fo
r the zero datum is not the cowl face. It is the original prop flange dista
nce of the prototype Classic.
>
> The joggle on the molding of all Europas is 29.25 inches aft of the datum.
Level the plane at the door sill or your level data point. Drop a plumb b
ob from the left and right joggle and draw a line between them. =46rom that
line measure 29.25 inches forward of that horizontal line and you have the z
ero datum. Measure then the main and tail wheel for the mono from that poin
t.
>
> Recalculate your datum using the above and take a hard look at the detail i
n chapter 6 of the POH and I believe you will solve your balance issue.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10@bellsouth.net>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:44:19 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
>
> Bud,
>
> Thanks for the response.
> Don=99t guess I=99ll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the
boss has said NO even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6t
h.
> Hope it doesn=99t flood you out like last year.
>
>
> Here=99s what I=99ve got:
>
> 912ULS
> Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod.
>
> With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 per
the manual.
> Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.)
> Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5. I
=99ve checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.) T
hat extra 1 =93 15 inches would sure make a difference.
> Battery on top of the passenger foot well.
> Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage b
ay.
>
> I=99ve checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly b
ut will check again. They weigh correctly with me on them.
>
> I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30
lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight c
onfigurations.
>
> I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to doubl
e check me with another set of scales.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
>
> It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.
> If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, i
s equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I woul
d expect that may happen.
>
> (Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds. Your 30-40 pound
s sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire a
nd antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy. Also, a Deutz tractor gasolat
or (about 10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight tha
t much.)
>
> Solutions:
> Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell.
> A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight. Air
master 332 3 blade 26 pounds)
> If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds ap
iece, get rid of them.
>
> Finally:
> Recheck your scales. (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale
is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.)
> Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level fl
ight is subtracted out. Check the math.
> Make sure the fuel tank is empty.
>
> Keep us posted. It=99s probably just a math and weight error.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
> Custom Flight Creations
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10@bellsouthnet>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Weight and balance
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
>
> Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30
=93 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG
where I want it. The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
>
> I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights
, etc. Currently I=99m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax g
ear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel
bar).
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> N51EU
> Europa Monowheel Classic
>
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