Europa-List Digest Archive

Mon 04/08/19


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:06 AM - Re: Weight of new XS cowling (JohnFrance)
     2. 12:27 AM - Anyone experienced trim runaway? (Richard Lamprey)
     3. 01:31 AM - Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? (JonathanMilbank)
     4. 01:53 AM - Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? (Brian Davies)
     5. 02:16 AM - Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? (Bob Harrison)
     6. 04:05 AM - Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? ()
     7. 09:45 AM - Re: PC680 battery (dmac7)
     8. 10:20 AM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__Re:_PC680_battery? ()
     9. 10:23 AM - Re: Weight of new XS cowling (Eddie)
    10. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: PC680 battery (Bob Harrison)
    11. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: PC680 battery (Jerry Rehn)
    12. 05:16 PM - AP332 Airmaster (Wladimir Kummer)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:06:45 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Weight of new XS cowling
    From: "JohnFrance" <77alembert@gmail.com>
    Hi Eddie, Youre absolutely right about the increased weight of the cowlings. I purchased a lower Cowling about two years ago, when ready to install it was 1.6 kg heavier than the original one. As you mentioned they are considerably thicker than the older model and hence the extra weight. As an exercise in composite work I am repairing my original cowling and adding a cowl flap and the ULS cooling inlet. Regards, John -------- Europa mono Nr 192 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488605#488605


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:27:03 AM PST US
    Subject: Anyone experienced trim runaway?
    From: "Richard Lamprey" <lamprey.richard@gmail.com>
    Having taken the Ethiopian Airlines flight from Addis to Nairobi recently, the recent B737 tragedy made me think about aircraft systems turning rogue If theres an electric trim runaway on the Europa (either nose up, nose down), is there enough pitch movement in the column at normal C of G to contain it? Has anyone had such experience? I seem to remember someone talking about it some years ago, but cant find it in the thread. Richard Europa Classic 912UL, 5Y-LRY Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488606#488606


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:31:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway?
    From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
    The possibility of pitch trim runaway crossed my mind in 1996, while I was planning where to place everything on my panel. So when it came to deciding which circuit breakers would get priority in the central panel section above the tunnel, the pitch trim was given the first left spot in the lower row. This made it nearest my hand and easiest to see, being closest to the pitch trim switch and indicator. I've not yet done the experiment in various flight stages, of deliberately running the trim towards full nose up or down to find out how that feels. Perhaps I should. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488607#488607


    Message 4


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    Time: 01:53:50 AM PST US
    From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44@gmail.com>
    Subject: Anyone experienced trim runaway?
    The LAA acceptance initial test flight requires an examination of the effect of an electric trim runaway in both directions and at various aircraft speeds in order to confirm that the aircraft remains controllable after leaving the trim in a simulated runaway for 4 seconds before taking any action, which would be to trip the CB to isolate the system. I have not tried to simulate a runaway that takes the trim to the full extent of its travel. Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Lamprey Sent: 08 April 2019 08:24 Subject: Europa-List: Anyone experienced trim runaway? Having taken the Ethiopian Airlines flight from Addis to Nairobi recently, the recent B737 tragedy made me think about aircraft systems turning rogue If theres an electric trim runaway on the Europa (either nose up, nose down), is there enough pitch movement in the column at normal C of G to contain it? Has anyone had such experience? I seem to remember someone talking about it some years ago, but cant find it in the thread. Richard Europa Classic 912UL, 5Y-LRY Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488606#488606 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:16:16 AM PST US
    From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@talktalk.net>
    Subject: Anyone experienced trim runaway?
    Hi! Richard /all. I had at least two situations which were in comparison and the indications of the recent enquiries caught my attention. The nature of my problems were such that a fault appeared in the trim unit such that at indeterminate positions the trim wouldn't reverse. It took quite some courage to allow the trip to extend to its full travel to get a reverse to occur and the control stick forces were phenomenal at the extreme travel position and very scary . The last time it occurred my brother was with me and we shared the control stick loads until the full normal control was recovered. I ordered a replacement trim deck and the suppliers were alleging that my wiring of the panel along with duplication of the trim control at the panel and the control stick were the cause. I noticed that the replacement unit they sent was a) a different shape b) was described as MARK II Serial number? On discussion with them they acknowledged that they has found a fault with the original unit so that on reaching "full trim position" the fault was eliminated ....until the next time so that further testing wouldn't allow the fault to be identified! I replaced the unit and have had no further issues except I don't use the trim control on the panel anymore and only use the flap control on the panel and not on the stick. Hope this helps with your thoughts ?Perhaps the LAA should have been involved in the outcome so I have copied Malcolm McBride into this message. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Lamprey Sent: 08 April 2019 08:24 Subject: Europa-List: Anyone experienced trim runaway? Having taken the Ethiopian Airlines flight from Addis to Nairobi recently, the recent B737 tragedy made me think about aircraft systems turning rogue If theres an electric trim runaway on the Europa (either nose up, nose down), is there enough pitch movement in the column at normal C of G to contain it? Has anyone had such experience? I seem to remember someone talking about it some years ago, but cant find it in the thread. Richard Europa Classic 912UL, 5Y-LRY Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488606#488606 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:05:16 AM PST US
    From: <m.j.gregory@talk21.com>
    Subject: Anyone experienced trim runaway?
    Richard, Further to Brian's advice, the Europa electrical system design included a separate circuit with a switch and fuse or CB to feed the trim. Ivan Shaw insisted that the pilot should still be able to operate the trim even if the master switch was off, e.g. because of smoke in the cockpit, so that it would be possible to conduct a forced landing without the distraction of an out-of-trim force. Of course, where you site the switch so that you could turn the trim off quickly in the event of a runaway is a matter of cockpit layout. Although heavy, I believe the forces on the Europa control column as a result of a full trim runaway are not so large that the average pilot could not cope, but there may well be airspeed or flight situations where such a runaway would cause difficulties. When there were in-service problems with trim runaway on the Hawker Hunter, which had an all moving tail that could definitely provide forces beyond the control of the pilot, the ability of a stray positive to cause an commanded trim movement was virtually eliminated by "back-contact earthing". This involved grounding the contacts of the trim control when movement was not required. This is probably not justified for a Europa, where it is less likely that a stray positive would cause a runaway that was uncontrollable. It is important to understand the actual circuit installed on your aircraft, which may of course differ from the basic Europa diagram. Some people have switches on one or both control columns, possibly operating a relay. The greater the complexity, the more chance there is of a contact getting stuck on or failing to operate. I am sure others will respond with advice as to their experience of exercising the trim at a safe height, airspeed and location (e.g. over the home airfield) and saying whether this was reassuring or worrying. Best regards, Mike Dr Mike Gregory Europa Club safety officer 01480 451655 07885 355765 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of Brian Davies Sent: 08 April 2019 09:53 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Anyone experienced trim runaway? --> < <mailto:brian.davies44@gmail.com> brian.davies44@gmail.com> The LAA acceptance initial test flight requires an examination of the effect of an electric trim runaway in both directions and at various aircraft speeds in order to confirm that the aircraft remains controllable after leaving the trim in a simulated runaway for 4 seconds before taking any action, which would be to trip the CB to isolate the system. I have not tried to simulate a runaway that takes the trim to the full extent of its travel. Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [ <mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Lamprey Sent: 08 April 2019 08:24 Subject: Europa-List: Anyone experienced trim runaway? --> < <mailto:lamprey.richard@gmail.com> lamprey.richard@gmail.com> Having taken the Ethiopian Airlines flight from Addis to Nairobi recently, the recent B737 tragedy made me think about aircraft systems turning rogue=C3=A2=82=AC=C2 If there=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s an electric trim runaway on the Europa (either nose up, nose down), is there enough pitch movement in the column at normal C of G to contain it? Has anyone had such experience? I seem to remember someone talking about it some years ago, but can=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t find it in the thread. Richard Europa Classic 912UL, 5Y-LRY Read this topic online here: <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488606#488606> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488606#488606 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. <https://www.avg.com> https://www.avg.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:45:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: PC680 battery
    From: "dmac7" <dmac7@outlook.com>
    Reading the spec's of the PC680 then the PC625 I was left questioning why the popularity of the PC680? It has lower power than the PC625 by 10 to 20% in all spec's. It's also 1 kilo heavier. Maybe the shape is the reason? I asked the Odyssey rep why the better spec's on the PC 625 his reply "The PC625 is a more efficient design" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488623#488623


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:20:14 AM PST US
    From: <duanefamly@aol.com>
    Subject: Re: f-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_PC680_battery?
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    Message 9


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    Time: 10:23:28 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Weight of new XS cowling
    From: "Eddie" <mred_europa@yahoo.com>
    Thanks for your reply John. I think I need to discuss this with Europa then. All the best Eddie -------- G-SELF classic with XS cockpit module. Was J3300 powered soon to be 912ULS powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488624#488624


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:52:19 AM PST US
    From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@talktalk.net>
    Subject: Re: PC680 battery
    All..... I consider the PC680 has a particular capability of being able to give up its power very quickly in the start process when compared with competition. I originally had a Jabiru 3300 which needed a very high cranking capability with the six pots coming onto the compression stroke in quick succession. Much larger batteries proved incapable to give out the start power quickly enough, so I finished up with two p680 type( sometimes known as "RED TOP" ).in parallel. When I changed engines to a 914 Rotax I kept the two batteries employed even though I have a heavy duty rotax starter. Keeping the two helps with redundancy issues too. I suffered exhaustive times starting the 6 cylinder engine and tried even heavy construction batteries with no success. All started in 1999 and I am now on my second pair nearly twenty years later! Having used both the originals on emergency car and lawn mower duties since recovery from the aircraft. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dmac7 Sent: 08 April 2019 17:45 Subject: Europa-List: Re: PC680 battery Reading the spec's of the PC680 then the PC625 I was left questioning why the popularity of the PC680? It has lower power than the PC625 by 10 to 20% in all spec's. It's also 1 kilo heavier. Maybe the shape is the reason? I asked the Odyssey rep why the better spec's on the PC 625 his reply "The PC625 is a more efficient design" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488623#488623 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:44:01 PM PST US
    From: Jerry Rehn <rehn@rockisland.com>
    Subject: Re: PC680 battery
    I=99ve been using the PC680 with great success, it will hold a charge for a very long time, they seem to last forever too. I change them out at a bout five years and then use them in my ATV for another five years. I have o ne =9Cused=9D on my work bench for 12 volt testing etc and charg e it about once a year. I would definitely recommend them. Jerry Rehn Mono XS, 914 Sent from my iPad > On Apr 8, 2019, at 10:13 AM, <duanefamly@aol.com> <duanefamly@aol.com> wro te: > > To compare the PC625 to the PC680 I believe comes down to size. Here are t he specs off the website. > PC625 PCHA 540 220 CCA 400 HCA 330 MCA 6.70 L 3.90 W 6.95 H 13.2LBS > PC680 PCHA 520 170 CCA 350 HCA 280 MCA 7.27 L 3.11 W 7.55 H 15.4 LBS > > I guess if you haven=99t built the battery box yet, you can make it f it. Or you can redo the box. > > Anybody have any other reason for choosing the PC680 over the 625? > > Mike Duane > Las Vegas, NV > PC680 > > Sent from Windows Mail > > From: dmac7 > Sent: =8EMonday=8E, =8EApril=8E =8E8=8E , =8E2019 =8E9=8E:=8E44=8E =8EAM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > Reading the spec's of the PC680 then the PC625 I was left questioning why t he popularity of the PC680? It has lower power than the PC625 by 10 to 20% i n all spec's. It's also 1 kilo heavier. Maybe the shape is the reason? I as ked the Odyssey rep why the better spec's on the PC 625 his reply "The PC625 is a more efficient design" > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488623#488623 > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 05:16:24 PM PST US
    From: Wladimir Kummer <wladimirkummer@gmail.com>
    Subject: AP332 Airmaster
    Hello all, I=C2=B4m builder of an Europa XS Motorglider in Brazil. Been thru this for about 4 years and still have lots to go. Recently applied MOD 78 to wing spar. Since Rotaxes are very very expensive engine here and I already have a Cont 0200 available I decided to use the later. This means however that I=C2=B4l l not be using the Airmaster propeller I already have on hand. I=C2=B4d rather us ing light wood or carbon fixed pitch one. So my AP332 new in box is available for sale, but please note the blades are not included since they=C2=B4re already gone to a local fellow whom tri ed to turn his Lightning into a glider and ended in a rice field. No one hurt but a couple of blades torn and I came to rescue. If interested please email at wladimirkummer AT gmail DOT com -- Wladimir Kummer de Paula MD Neurologia Cl=C3=ADnica FWF Servi=C3=A7os em Sa=C3=BAde




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