Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:19 AM - Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? (clivesutton)
2. 01:35 AM - Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? (BobD)
3. 02:23 AM - Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? (Remi Guerner)
4. 02:52 AM - Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? (Kingsley Hurst)
5. 04:34 AM - Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? (Bob Harrison)
6. 05:58 AM - Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? (Brian Davies)
7. 07:29 AM - Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? (William Daniell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? |
I've not experienced runaway but i did experience a failed switch during the initial
permit flight testing - with Andy Draper on board. I think it stopped responding
to trim switch inputs just after the full trim up tests that Brian mentions.
Anyway, although the a/c was almost at MTOW 1370lbs, it was quite controllable
by using a fair amount of forward stick force and reducing the speed
to just above Vfe to make the 10min flight back to base from the test area.
At no time did i feel unsafe. Mine is wired though the master SW - perhaps this
SW should be wired direct to the battery/be live all the time - for the dead-stick
situation that Mike G mentions?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488634#488634
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? |
When I was planning my Panel, I removed and replaced the trim switch a couple of
times, and this involved removing and replacing the self adhesive surround to
get at the screws. After one such removal, and on testing on the ground, I experienced
trim runaway due to the sensitive switch catching slightly on the snug
fit surround. I replaced the surround with home made labels, just on the
top and bottom of the switch to remove the potential problem.
--------
Bob Dawson
Europa XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ || Dynon Skyview || PilotAware || SmartAss3
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488635#488635
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? |
I was concerned about a trim runaway and made some testing about ten years ago.
From my notes, this is what I found:
1. At cruising speed, trimming full nose up and trying to stay level requires an
extreme force and it was nearly impossible to avoid climbing. After reducing
power and speed to 70kts, the push force becomes manageable but is still high.
I thing a landing in this configuration would be possible but difficult (I did
not try!). Turning helps reducing the push force
2. At cruising speed, trimming full nose down and trying to stay level requires
a good pull force but it is manageable. At lower speed the push force becomes
quite small and landing would be easy.
Of course those findings are for my own aircraft and could be slightly different
for others. The results would also be affected by weight and balance.
I also have both roll and yaw electric trims but a runaway of those trims is a
non issue as the generated stick forces are very small.
Remi Guerner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488636#488636
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? |
A few years ago, just after take-off from an airport a long way from
home, I experienced a trim runaway as I was trimming forward. I can
assure you it quickly got my attention as the control force was
uncomfortably heavy. After toggling the trim switch quickly in both
directions, normal trim function thankfully resumed.
The aircraft has trim switches on both sticks and has a relay in the
circuit. It was the relay that stuck and after replacing it with the
later heavier duty relay supplied by Ray Allen, no further problems were
experienced.
This incident dictated I put a trim on/off switch next to the trim
indicator on the panel.
Cheers
Kingsley in Oz
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| Subject: | Anyone experienced trim runaway? |
Hi! Kingsley.
Fine to add a switch if it isolated the trim circuit except the original Europa
electrical circuit stipulation was for it to be wired direct to power supply
and by pass the isolating switch for the remaining circuit.
My experience involved the Ray Allen relay decks and it was them who discovered
the fault in the original relay deck, so resulting in the update to the Mark
II type
The loads developed on the control with maximum trim position is phenomenal and
would be impossible to land the aircraft with one control stick . the resulting
loads on the controls linkages are frightening .
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst
Sent: 09 April 2019 10:52
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone experienced trim runaway?
A few years ago, just after take-off from an airport a long way from
home, I experienced a trim runaway as I was trimming forward. I can
assure you it quickly got my attention as the control force was
uncomfortably heavy. After toggling the trim switch quickly in both
directions, normal trim function thankfully resumed.
The aircraft has trim switches on both sticks and has a relay in the
circuit. It was the relay that stuck and after replacing it with the
later heavier duty relay supplied by Ray Allen, no further problems were
experienced.
This incident dictated I put a trim on/off switch next to the trim
indicator on the panel.
Cheers
Kingsley in Oz
---
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Anyone experienced trim runaway? |
Bob,
Although Europa recommend the Trim power supply comes directly off the battery
their circuit diagram clearly shows an isolating switch in the circuit. Personally
I would regard this as a mandatory requirement to cover the trim runaway
situation. It can be provided by a pull to break circuit breaker, again as stated
in the build manual.
Regards
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Harrison
Sent: 09 April 2019 12:34
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Anyone experienced trim runaway?
Hi! Kingsley.
Fine to add a switch if it isolated the trim circuit except the original Europa
electrical circuit stipulation was for it to be wired direct to power supply
and by pass the isolating switch for the remaining circuit.
My experience involved the Ray Allen relay decks and it was them who discovered
the fault in the original relay deck, so resulting in the update to the Mark
II type
The loads developed on the control with maximum trim position is phenomenal and
would be impossible to land the aircraft with one control stick . the resulting
loads on the controls linkages are frightening .
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst
Sent: 09 April 2019 10:52
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone experienced trim runaway?
A few years ago, just after take-off from an airport a long way from
home, I experienced a trim runaway as I was trimming forward. I can
assure you it quickly got my attention as the control force was
uncomfortably heavy. After toggling the trim switch quickly in both
directions, normal trim function thankfully resumed.
The aircraft has trim switches on both sticks and has a relay in the
circuit. It was the relay that stuck and after replacing it with the
later heavier duty relay supplied by Ray Allen, no further problems were
experienced.
This incident dictated I put a trim on/off switch next to the trim
indicator on the panel.
Cheers
Kingsley in Oz
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone experienced trim runaway? |
The dynon AP panel that I have (I am still trying to figure out how to use
the advanced AP functions) is connected to the trim because it has an auto
trim function. The AP panel cuts off the trim power after about 3-4
seconds of continuous use. You have to press the switch again if you want
to continue moving the trim tab.
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 9:01 AM Brian Davies <brian.davies@clara.co.uk>
wrote:
> brian.davies@clara.co.uk>
>
> Bob,
>
> Although Europa recommend the Trim power supply comes directly off the
> battery their circuit diagram clearly shows an isolating switch in the
> circuit. Personally I would regard this as a mandatory requirement to cover
> the trim runaway situation. It can be provided by a pull to break circuit
> breaker, again as stated in the build manual.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Harrison
> Sent: 09 April 2019 12:34
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Anyone experienced trim runaway?
>
>
> Hi! Kingsley.
>
> Fine to add a switch if it isolated the trim circuit except the original
> Europa electrical circuit stipulation was for it to be wired direct to
> power supply and by pass the isolating switch for the remaining circuit.
> My experience involved the Ray Allen relay decks and it was them who
> discovered the fault in the original relay deck, so resulting in the update
> to the Mark II type
> The loads developed on the control with maximum trim position is
> phenomenal and would be impossible to land the aircraft with one control
> stick . the resulting loads on the controls linkages are frightening .
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
>
> Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst
> Sent: 09 April 2019 10:52
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone experienced trim runaway?
>
> kingsnjan@westnet.com.au>
>
> A few years ago, just after take-off from an airport a long way from
> home, I experienced a trim runaway as I was trimming forward. I can
> assure you it quickly got my attention as the control force was
> uncomfortably heavy. After toggling the trim switch quickly in both
> directions, normal trim function thankfully resumed.
>
> The aircraft has trim switches on both sticks and has a relay in the
> circuit. It was the relay that stuck and after replacing it with the
> later heavier duty relay supplied by Ray Allen, no further problems were
> experienced.
>
> This incident dictated I put a trim on/off switch next to the trim
> indicator on the panel.
>
> Cheers
> Kingsley in Oz
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
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