---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/15/19: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:39 AM - Re: Motorglider Wings? (John Wighton) 2. 01:12 AM - Re: Re: Motorglider Wings? (Richard Churchill-Coleman) 3. 01:24 AM - Europa Club AGM and dinner (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 4. 02:30 AM - Re: Re: Motorglider Wings? (Pete) 5. 12:59 PM - CORRECTION Europa Club AGM and dinner (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 6. 04:19 PM - Re: Texel fly-in 23rd-25th August - save the date! (carlp101) 7. 04:25 PM - Re: IMC Night application - Propeller (carlp101) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:40 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Motorglider Wings? From: "John Wighton" Quote: Here in Canada we can declare whatever gross weight we want (wisely or not). Seeing that the added weight is itself in the wing and results in no increased stresses, I figure I could simply increase the gross with long wings by the same 100lbs without penalty (assuming enough HP). No? It is true that inertia relief can be credited to mitigate loads and this gives a proportional benefit with heavy wings. But to assume the stresses do not change is incorrect. The MG wings generate more lift, hence the bending moments and shear forces on the root will be higher. I believe the spar depth was changed to increase 2nd Mt of area. The goal therefore may have been to match the standard a/c stresses. I have some of Jason Russell's work on file from many years ago, it is probably worth taking a look at that and any other design data (at LAA?) to see what the margins are. I suspect that the long delay in gaining approval for the MG version stems from a reduction in structural margins. Perhaps someone can tell the story???? -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489233#489233 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:23 AM PST US From: Richard Churchill-Coleman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Motorglider Wings? John I wont speculate on the reasons for delay in certification as I am too aware of the law of libel. However, my understanding of the main issue with increasing the MTOW is demonstrating the landing gear is capable of withstanding the additional loads, potentially with prop clearance issues on the mono in addition. RIchard Sent from my iPhone > On 15 May 2019, at 08:39, John Wighton wrote: > > > Quote: > > Here in Canada we can declare whatever gross weight we want (wisely or > not). Seeing that the added weight is itself in the wing and results in no > increased stresses, I figure I could simply increase the gross with long > wings by the same 100lbs without penalty (assuming enough HP). No? > > It is true that inertia relief can be credited to mitigate loads and this gives a proportional benefit with heavy wings. But to assume the stresses do not change is incorrect. The MG wings generate more lift, hence the bending moments and shear forces on the root will be higher. > > I believe the spar depth was changed to increase 2nd Mt of area. The goal therefore may have been to match the standard a/c stresses. I have some of Jason Russell's work on file from many years ago, it is probably worth taking a look at that and any other design data (at LAA?) to see what the margins are. > > I suspect that the long delay in gaining approval for the MG version stems from a reduction in structural margins. Perhaps someone can tell the story???? > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489233#489233 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:45 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Europa-List: Europa Club AGM and dinner The Europa Club fly in, AGM, talk by Andy Draper and Dinner will be held at Wellesbourn Mountford, EGBW and the nearby Charlecote Pheasant Hotel on Friday July 26th 2019. Details are attached and on the club website (www.theeuropaclub.org [1] ). We will hope to see you there. David Joyce, GXSDJ Links: ------ [1] http://www.theeuropaclub.org ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Motorglider Wings? From: Pete Yes, i forgot to mention gentle landings would be required as that would be the weak link from my understanding. I still however do not understand the increased spar bending moment due to increased wing mass. Il. Have to start googling :) Cheers, Pete > On May 15, 2019, at 4:11 AM, Richard Churchill-Coleman wrote: > > > John > > I wont speculate on the reasons for delay in certification as I am too aware of the law of libel. However, my understanding of the main issue with increasing the MTOW is demonstrating the landing gear is capable of withstanding the additional loads, potentially with prop clearance issues on the mono in addition. > > RIchard > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 15 May 2019, at 08:39, John Wighton wrote: >> >> >> Quote: >> >> Here in Canada we can declare whatever gross weight we want (wisely or >> not). Seeing that the added weight is itself in the wing and results in no >> increased stresses, I figure I could simply increase the gross with long >> wings by the same 100lbs without penalty (assuming enough HP). No? >> >> It is true that inertia relief can be credited to mitigate loads and this gives a proportional benefit with heavy wings. But to assume the stresses do not change is incorrect. The MG wings generate more lift, hence the bending moments and shear forces on the root will be higher. >> >> I believe the spar depth was changed to increase 2nd Mt of area. The goal therefore may have been to match the standard a/c stresses. I have some of Jason Russell's work on file from many years ago, it is probably worth taking a look at that and any other design data (at LAA?) to see what the margins are. >> >> I suspect that the long delay in gaining approval for the MG version stems from a reduction in structural margins. Perhaps someone can tell the story???? >> >> -------- >> John Wighton >> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489233#489233 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:20 PM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Europa-List: CORRECTION Europa Club AGM and dinner Dear all, PLEASE NOTE: The email address for sending in your booking in the attachment is INCORRECT. The correct email is: Trips@theeuropaclub.org -------- Original Message -------- SUBJECT: Europa-List: Europa Club AGM and dinner DATE: 2019-05-15 09:24 FROM: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk TO: europa list REPLY-TO: europa-list@matronics.com The Europa Club fly in, AGM, talk by Andy Draper and Dinner will be held at Wellesbourn Mountford, EGBW and the nearby Charlecote Pheasant Hotel on Friday July 26th 2019. Details are attached and on the club website (www.theeuropaclub.org [1] ). We will hope to see you there. David Joyce, GXSDJ Links: ------ [1] http://www.theeuropaclub.org ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:26 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Texel fly-in 23rd-25th August - save the date! From: "carlp101" I've got a pass for the event, so I'll be flying out on the Friday. See you there. ATB Carl Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489242#489242 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:36 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller From: "carlp101" Paperwork submitted. Keep your fingers crossed. VFR limitation removal imminent (I hope). Looking forward to night & IMC! 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