Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:17 AM - Re: Fly day (Remi Guerner)
2. 02:51 AM - Re: Re: Fly day (Bob Harrison)
3. 08:23 AM - Re: Fly day (h&jeuropa)
4. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Fly day (Bud Yerly)
5. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Fly day (Alan Twigg)
6. 01:01 PM - Re: Motorglider Wings? (John Roedseth)
7. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Motorglider Wings? (Pete)
8. 10:01 PM - Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may (Roland)
9. 11:21 PM - Re: Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may (Ivor)
10. 11:31 PM - Re: Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may (Roland)
Message 1
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A word of caution here: assuming we are talking about a Rotax, without the spark
plugs, there is no blow-by to pressurize the crankcase, so the oil is not returned
to the tank. Therefore the tank may become empty and you pump air into
the oil circuit. The crankcase may be flooded.
To use this method safely, you need to disconnect the oil return line and set it
so that the oil is drained from the crankcase by gravity, and refill the oil
tank at the same time to keep the oil level high enough.
Remi
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489315#489315
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Hi! Remi.
The official Rotax plan to bleed the oil cooler calls for the top of the
tank to be pressurized (so you are correct partly ) however it is not to
use all the oil in the tank or the oil system would be taking in air
defeating the objective of bleeding the cooler. Having embarked on bleeding
the oil cooler provided the tank level remains adequate and is topped up to
remain sure the oil cooler is evacuated of air,( that should be sufficient
to achieve oil pressure on the instrument) then replace the ignition plugs
and top up with oil which will pressure oil from the sump to the oil pump
and so evacuate the sump again.( BUT BE SURE NOT TO FINISH UP WITH THE TANK
OVER FILLED!)( Almost wish I hadn't entered into this issue !)
Regards to all
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi Guerner
Sent: 21 May 2019 08:18
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fly day
A word of caution here: assuming we are talking about a Rotax, without the
spark plugs, there is no blow-by to pressurize the crankcase, so the oil is
not returned to the tank. Therefore the tank may become empty and you pump
air into the oil circuit. The crankcase may be flooded.
To use this method safely, you need to disconnect the oil return line and
set it so that the oil is drained from the crankcase by gravity, and refill
the oil tank at the same time to keep the oil level high enough.
Remi
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489315#489315
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Alan,
Temporarily install a simple mechanical oil pressure gauge. It's easiest if you
can have both gauges connected to the engine at the same time, but you can also
test with one and then the other. If you hand prop the engine, it will build
enough oil pressure to indicate on a gauge. Compare the mechanical gauge
reading and your electronic reading.
The VDO pressure senders have a history of failure, especially when operated attached
to the engine as Rotax does. Vibration is the problem. A better solution
is to remote mount the sender. There are several kits available to do this.
I used one from Leading Edge Airfoils in the US.
Jim Butcher
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489318#489318
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Alan,
Good advice from all.
Once the oil system is secure and connections tight, ensure the oil tank is
filled, disconnect the oil line to the pump at the front and pressurize th
e oil tank through the vent hole until the oil supply line is purged of air
(your oil cooler is now full). Reconnect your oil line, then check the se
nder is connected and operational. (You did put oil in the filter before i
nstalling it or there will be a large air bubble in the system which won=92
t clear for some agonizing seconds.)
I test my sensors prior to engine run when I can ( I have an air pressure s
ource and a manifold with regulator to screw the sensor into to either cali
brate or check it). On existing engines I normally do not remove the oil s
ensor, because like Bob Harrison, I prime the engine first by pulling and s
afeing the all the plug wires and remove the top plugs, spinning with the s
tarter for about 10 -15 seconds (by hand is a bit tedious but you can feel
the resistance of the oil pump when it gets oil) until oil pressure stabili
zes on the gauge, then replace the spark plugs and burp the engine to get t
he can full again and top off the oil as necessary. With good pressure, I
then pull off the valve covers and check my lifters to see if they are soli
d. If not, repeat the pressurization. If you have oil pressure with the e
ngine being turned (normally 45 to 60 PSI while cranking cold) for 15-20 se
conds, the engine oil delivery system is sound and tight. As an engine guy
you know it=92s not rocket science, but reviewing and following the SBs on
the priming of the oil system is essential on an engine that has sat for s
ome time. Trust but verify.
The Rotax pressure bleed is the right thing to do, but again, it takes many
hands so an assistant is recommended. Did I mention it is messy to prime
an oil system, so some cleanup may be required. By doing the oil filling a
nd purge by hand as I do, it allows me to do it alone with only minor clean
up of drips rather than by the Rotax Service method alone.
If no oil pressure is found, it is most likely the sensor.
Obviously a direct reading oil pressure gauge is the best solution for test
ing oil pressure.
To check your gauge and wiring:
Remove the oil sensor wire and ground it, note the pressure indication at z
ero, then unground and leave the end isolated and check the indicator again
, it should peg max.
If the above has happened you=92re wiring is OK, but the sender is suspect.
Test it by hooking to a regulated air source and checking the ohm reading
s against the rotax manual. If you installed a Honeywell or similar digit
al sender, check the leads are properly wired and connected, and use an air
source to check the pressure over the range from 10-100 PSI.
Nine times out of ten, it=92s the sender or wiring. If you have oil at the
pump (cooler is full), the filter is full of oil, the lifters are solid, a
nd oil is getting to the bottom of the crankcase that must be burped out, o
il is going through the engine for sure. If there is a bad bearing, or sea
l that is gone, it will show in one of two ways:
1. As low oil pressure during the cranking by hand or starter and on eng
ine start.
2. The initial pull on the prop is very high will indicate an internal b
earing or its support flange has failed.
Fear not, check all is well with the internal and connections as above. If
it is, then start up.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Bob Harrison <ptag.dev@talktalk.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:51:14 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Fly day
Hi! Remi.
The official Rotax plan to bleed the oil cooler calls for the top of the
tank to be pressurized (so you are correct partly ) however it is not to
use all the oil in the tank or the oil system would be taking in air
defeating the objective of bleeding the cooler. Having embarked on bleeding
the oil cooler provided the tank level remains adequate and is topped up t
o
remain sure the oil cooler is evacuated of air,( that should be sufficient
to achieve oil pressure on the instrument) then replace the ignition plugs
and top up with oil which will pressure oil from the sump to the oil pump
and so evacuate the sump again.( BUT BE SURE NOT TO FINISH UP WITH THE TANK
OVER FILLED!)( Almost wish I hadn't entered into this issue !)
Regards to all
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi Guerner
Sent: 21 May 2019 08:18
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fly day
A word of caution here: assuming we are talking about a Rotax, without the
spark plugs, there is no blow-by to pressurize the crankcase, so the oil is
not returned to the tank. Therefore the tank may become empty and you pump
air into the oil circuit. The crankcase may be flooded.
To use this method safely, you need to disconnect the oil return line and
set it so that the oil is drained from the crankcase by gravity, and refil
l
the oil tank at the same time to keep the oil level high enough.
Remi
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489315#489315
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Message 5
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Thanks all, I was in touch with the new Rotax dealers. Their tech is very go
od.
I have the wrong oil pressure transmitter for the Flydat. I need a VDO trans
mitter.
Anyone got one?
Alan Twigg
G-GIWT
Kit 463
Sent from my iPhone
> On 21 May 2019, at 16:33, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
> Alan,
> Good advice from all.
>
> Once the oil system is secure and connections tight, ensure the oil tank i
s filled, disconnect the oil line to the pump at the front and pressurize th
e oil tank through the vent hole until the oil supply line is purged of air (
your oil cooler is now full). Reconnect your oil line, then check the sende
r is connected and operational. (You did put oil in the filter before insta
lling it or there will be a large air bubble in the system which won=99
t clear for some agonizing seconds.)
>
> I test my sensors prior to engine run when I can ( I have an air pressure s
ource and a manifold with regulator to screw the sensor into to either calib
rate or check it). On existing engines I normally do not remove the oil sen
sor, because like Bob Harrison, I prime the engine first by pulling and safe
ing the all the plug wires and remove the top plugs, spinning with the start
er for about 10 -15 seconds (by hand is a bit tedious but you can feel the r
esistance of the oil pump when it gets oil) until oil pressure stabilizes on
the gauge, then replace the spark plugs and burp the engine to get the can f
ull again and top off the oil as necessary. With good pressure, I then pull
off the valve covers and check my lifters to see if they are solid. If not
, repeat the pressurization. If you have oil pressure with the engine being
turned (normally 45 to 60 PSI while cranking cold) for 15-20 seconds, the e
ngine oil delivery system is sound and tight. As an engine guy you know it
=99s not rocket science, but reviewing and following the SBs on the primi
ng of the oil system is essential on an engine that has sat for some time.
Trust but verify.
>
> The Rotax pressure bleed is the right thing to do, but again, it takes man
y hands so an assistant is recommended. Did I mention it is messy to prime a
n oil system, so some cleanup may be required. By doing the oil filling and
purge by hand as I do, it allows me to do it alone with only minor cleanup o
f drips rather than by the Rotax Service method alone.
>
> If no oil pressure is found, it is most likely the sensor.
> Obviously a direct reading oil pressure gauge is the best solution for tes
ting oil pressure.
>
> To check your gauge and wiring:
> Remove the oil sensor wire and ground it, note the pressure indication at z
ero, then unground and leave the end isolated and check the indicator again,
it should peg max.
>
> If the above has happened you=99re wiring is OK, but the sender is s
uspect. Test it by hooking to a regulated air source and checking the ohm r
eadings against the rotax manual. If you installed a Honeywell or similar d
igital sender, check the leads are properly wired and connected, and use an a
ir source to check the pressure over the range from 10-100 PSI.
>
> Nine times out of ten, it=99s the sender or wiring. If you have oil
at the pump (cooler is full), the filter is full of oil, the lifters are so
lid, and oil is getting to the bottom of the crankcase that must be burped o
ut, oil is going through the engine for sure. If there is a bad bearing, or
seal that is gone, it will show in one of two ways:
> As low oil pressure during the cranking by hand or starter and on engine s
tart.
> The initial pull on the prop is very high will indicate an internal bearin
g or its support flange has failed.
>
> Fear not, check all is well with the internal and connections as above. I
f it is, then start up.
>
> Bud Yerly
> Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com> on behalf of Bob Harrison <ptag.dev@talktalk.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:51:14 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Fly day
>
>
> Hi! Remi.
> The official Rotax plan to bleed the oil cooler calls for the top of the
> tank to be pressurized (so you are correct partly ) however it is not to
> use all the oil in the tank or the oil system would be taking in air
> defeating the objective of bleeding the cooler. Having embarked on bleedin
g
> the oil cooler provided the tank level remains adequate and is topped up t
o
> remain sure the oil cooler is evacuated of air,( that should be sufficient
> to achieve oil pressure on the instrument) then replace the ignition plugs
> and top up with oil which will pressure oil from the sump to the oil pump
> and so evacuate the sump again.( BUT BE SURE NOT TO FINISH UP WITH THE TAN
K
> OVER FILLED!)( Almost wish I hadn't entered into this issue !)
> Regards to all
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi Guerner
> Sent: 21 May 2019 08:18
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fly day
>
>
>
>
> A word of caution here: assuming we are talking about a Rotax, without th
e
> spark plugs, there is no blow-by to pressurize the crankcase, so the oil i
s
> not returned to the tank. Therefore the tank may become empty and you pump
> air into the oil circuit. The crankcase may be flooded.
> To use this method safely, you need to disconnect the oil return line and
> set it so that the oil is drained from the crankcase by gravity, and refi
ll
> the oil tank at the same time to keep the oil level high enough.
>
> Remi
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489315#489315
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
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| Subject: | Re: Motorglider Wings? |
Hi Clive & Europa Fans! I have a Tri-gear Motorglider LX-CWT, which I have been
flying about 300+ hours since 2011. I bought it in 2009 as a mono-wheel, made
a couple of flights, before rebuilding to tri-gear. There was an article in
the Europa Flyer in the last edition before last Xmas about my experience with
the motorglider.
I have a hangar space for LX-CWT, and as the plane did not fit anymore, I sold
the trailer to Ian Cook. The trailer was made by Anschau in Germany, who probably
still have the drawings if you need one made.
My experiences with the motorglider are largely positive. It will never be a high
performance sailplane, but offers fun and above all, it is a very economical
touring plane. Not as fast as the short wing, but with 110-115 knots cruise
and 13 to 15 liters per hour, who cares? John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489323#489323
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| Subject: | Re: Motorglider Wings? |
Hi John,
Could the long wings stay up on a good thermal day?
Cheers,
Pete
> On May 21, 2019, at 4:00 PM, John Roedseth <roedseth@pt.lu> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Clive & Europa Fans! I have a Tri-gear Motorglider LX-CWT, which I have been
flying about 300+ hours since 2011. I bought it in 2009 as a mono-wheel, made
a couple of flights, before rebuilding to tri-gear. There was an article in
the Europa Flyer in the last edition before last Xmas about my experience with
the motorglider.
> I have a hangar space for LX-CWT, and as the plane did not fit anymore, I sold
the trailer to Ian Cook. The trailer was made by Anschau in Germany, who probably
still have the drawings if you need one made.
> My experiences with the motorglider are largely positive. It will never be a
high performance sailplane, but offers fun and above all, it is a very economical
touring plane. Not as fast as the short wing, but with 110-115 knots cruise
and 13 to 15 liters per hour, who cares? John
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489323#489323
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may |
Dear Europapilots,
who's going to join the Le Touquet fly out?
https://www.theeuropaclub.org/events/le-touquet-france
I hope to meet many of you!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489327#489327
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| Subject: | Re: Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may |
Hi Roland
I had planned on being there about 0930 or there abouts,
Bringing Frank Xuereb another Europa pilot whos still trying to get signed
Off on his Mono wheel,
See you there,
Ivor
G-IVER
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489329#489329
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may |
Hi Ivor,
I won't make it 09:30, so it would be good to meet somewhere later in the town
or at the beach or so.
I've also contacted David Joyce/Europa Club as well to put me on the participant
list.
My mobile number is +49 160 993 552 43 - just in case.
Looking forward!
Roland
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