---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/21/19: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:17 AM - Re: Fly day (Remi Guerner) 2. 02:51 AM - Re: Re: Fly day (Bob Harrison) 3. 08:23 AM - Re: Fly day (h&jeuropa) 4. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Fly day (Bud Yerly) 5. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Fly day (Alan Twigg) 6. 01:01 PM - Re: Motorglider Wings? (John Roedseth) 7. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Motorglider Wings? (Pete) 8. 10:01 PM - Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may (Roland) 9. 11:21 PM - Re: Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may (Ivor) 10. 11:31 PM - Re: Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may (Roland) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:53 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fly day From: "Remi Guerner" A word of caution here: assuming we are talking about a Rotax, without the spark plugs, there is no blow-by to pressurize the crankcase, so the oil is not returned to the tank. Therefore the tank may become empty and you pump air into the oil circuit. The crankcase may be flooded. To use this method safely, you need to disconnect the oil return line and set it so that the oil is drained from the crankcase by gravity, and refill the oil tank at the same time to keep the oil level high enough. Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489315#489315 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:40 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Fly day Hi! Remi. The official Rotax plan to bleed the oil cooler calls for the top of the tank to be pressurized (so you are correct partly ) however it is not to use all the oil in the tank or the oil system would be taking in air defeating the objective of bleeding the cooler. Having embarked on bleeding the oil cooler provided the tank level remains adequate and is topped up to remain sure the oil cooler is evacuated of air,( that should be sufficient to achieve oil pressure on the instrument) then replace the ignition plugs and top up with oil which will pressure oil from the sump to the oil pump and so evacuate the sump again.( BUT BE SURE NOT TO FINISH UP WITH THE TANK OVER FILLED!)( Almost wish I hadn't entered into this issue !) Regards to all Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi Guerner Sent: 21 May 2019 08:18 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fly day A word of caution here: assuming we are talking about a Rotax, without the spark plugs, there is no blow-by to pressurize the crankcase, so the oil is not returned to the tank. Therefore the tank may become empty and you pump air into the oil circuit. The crankcase may be flooded. To use this method safely, you need to disconnect the oil return line and set it so that the oil is drained from the crankcase by gravity, and refill the oil tank at the same time to keep the oil level high enough. Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489315#489315 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:38 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fly day From: "h&jeuropa" Alan, Temporarily install a simple mechanical oil pressure gauge. It's easiest if you can have both gauges connected to the engine at the same time, but you can also test with one and then the other. If you hand prop the engine, it will build enough oil pressure to indicate on a gauge. Compare the mechanical gauge reading and your electronic reading. The VDO pressure senders have a history of failure, especially when operated attached to the engine as Rotax does. Vibration is the problem. A better solution is to remote mount the sender. There are several kits available to do this. I used one from Leading Edge Airfoils in the US. Jim Butcher Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489318#489318 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:27 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Fly day Alan, Good advice from all. Once the oil system is secure and connections tight, ensure the oil tank is filled, disconnect the oil line to the pump at the front and pressurize th e oil tank through the vent hole until the oil supply line is purged of air (your oil cooler is now full). Reconnect your oil line, then check the se nder is connected and operational. (You did put oil in the filter before i nstalling it or there will be a large air bubble in the system which won=92 t clear for some agonizing seconds.) I test my sensors prior to engine run when I can ( I have an air pressure s ource and a manifold with regulator to screw the sensor into to either cali brate or check it). On existing engines I normally do not remove the oil s ensor, because like Bob Harrison, I prime the engine first by pulling and s afeing the all the plug wires and remove the top plugs, spinning with the s tarter for about 10 -15 seconds (by hand is a bit tedious but you can feel the resistance of the oil pump when it gets oil) until oil pressure stabili zes on the gauge, then replace the spark plugs and burp the engine to get t he can full again and top off the oil as necessary. With good pressure, I then pull off the valve covers and check my lifters to see if they are soli d. If not, repeat the pressurization. If you have oil pressure with the e ngine being turned (normally 45 to 60 PSI while cranking cold) for 15-20 se conds, the engine oil delivery system is sound and tight. As an engine guy you know it=92s not rocket science, but reviewing and following the SBs on the priming of the oil system is essential on an engine that has sat for s ome time. Trust but verify. The Rotax pressure bleed is the right thing to do, but again, it takes many hands so an assistant is recommended. Did I mention it is messy to prime an oil system, so some cleanup may be required. By doing the oil filling a nd purge by hand as I do, it allows me to do it alone with only minor clean up of drips rather than by the Rotax Service method alone. If no oil pressure is found, it is most likely the sensor. Obviously a direct reading oil pressure gauge is the best solution for test ing oil pressure. To check your gauge and wiring: Remove the oil sensor wire and ground it, note the pressure indication at z ero, then unground and leave the end isolated and check the indicator again , it should peg max. If the above has happened you=92re wiring is OK, but the sender is suspect. Test it by hooking to a regulated air source and checking the ohm reading s against the rotax manual. If you installed a Honeywell or similar digit al sender, check the leads are properly wired and connected, and use an air source to check the pressure over the range from 10-100 PSI. Nine times out of ten, it=92s the sender or wiring. If you have oil at the pump (cooler is full), the filter is full of oil, the lifters are solid, a nd oil is getting to the bottom of the crankcase that must be burped out, o il is going through the engine for sure. If there is a bad bearing, or sea l that is gone, it will show in one of two ways: 1. As low oil pressure during the cranking by hand or starter and on eng ine start. 2. The initial pull on the prop is very high will indicate an internal b earing or its support flange has failed. Fear not, check all is well with the internal and connections as above. If it is, then start up. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations, Inc. Sent from Mail for Window s 10 ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Bob Harrison Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:51:14 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Fly day Hi! Remi. The official Rotax plan to bleed the oil cooler calls for the top of the tank to be pressurized (so you are correct partly ) however it is not to use all the oil in the tank or the oil system would be taking in air defeating the objective of bleeding the cooler. Having embarked on bleeding the oil cooler provided the tank level remains adequate and is topped up t o remain sure the oil cooler is evacuated of air,( that should be sufficient to achieve oil pressure on the instrument) then replace the ignition plugs and top up with oil which will pressure oil from the sump to the oil pump and so evacuate the sump again.( BUT BE SURE NOT TO FINISH UP WITH THE TANK OVER FILLED!)( Almost wish I hadn't entered into this issue !) Regards to all Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi Guerner Sent: 21 May 2019 08:18 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fly day A word of caution here: assuming we are talking about a Rotax, without the spark plugs, there is no blow-by to pressurize the crankcase, so the oil is not returned to the tank. Therefore the tank may become empty and you pump air into the oil circuit. The crankcase may be flooded. To use this method safely, you need to disconnect the oil return line and set it so that the oil is drained from the crankcase by gravity, and refil l the oil tank at the same time to keep the oil level high enough. Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489315#489315 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:01 AM PST US From: Alan Twigg Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fly day Thanks all, I was in touch with the new Rotax dealers. Their tech is very go od. I have the wrong oil pressure transmitter for the Flydat. I need a VDO trans mitter. Anyone got one? Alan Twigg G-GIWT Kit 463 Sent from my iPhone > On 21 May 2019, at 16:33, Bud Yerly wrote: > > Alan, > Good advice from all. > > Once the oil system is secure and connections tight, ensure the oil tank i s filled, disconnect the oil line to the pump at the front and pressurize th e oil tank through the vent hole until the oil supply line is purged of air ( your oil cooler is now full). Reconnect your oil line, then check the sende r is connected and operational. (You did put oil in the filter before insta lling it or there will be a large air bubble in the system which won=99 t clear for some agonizing seconds.) > > I test my sensors prior to engine run when I can ( I have an air pressure s ource and a manifold with regulator to screw the sensor into to either calib rate or check it). On existing engines I normally do not remove the oil sen sor, because like Bob Harrison, I prime the engine first by pulling and safe ing the all the plug wires and remove the top plugs, spinning with the start er for about 10 -15 seconds (by hand is a bit tedious but you can feel the r esistance of the oil pump when it gets oil) until oil pressure stabilizes on the gauge, then replace the spark plugs and burp the engine to get the can f ull again and top off the oil as necessary. With good pressure, I then pull off the valve covers and check my lifters to see if they are solid. If not , repeat the pressurization. If you have oil pressure with the engine being turned (normally 45 to 60 PSI while cranking cold) for 15-20 seconds, the e ngine oil delivery system is sound and tight. As an engine guy you know it =99s not rocket science, but reviewing and following the SBs on the primi ng of the oil system is essential on an engine that has sat for some time. Trust but verify. > > The Rotax pressure bleed is the right thing to do, but again, it takes man y hands so an assistant is recommended. Did I mention it is messy to prime a n oil system, so some cleanup may be required. By doing the oil filling and purge by hand as I do, it allows me to do it alone with only minor cleanup o f drips rather than by the Rotax Service method alone. > > If no oil pressure is found, it is most likely the sensor. > Obviously a direct reading oil pressure gauge is the best solution for tes ting oil pressure. > > To check your gauge and wiring: > Remove the oil sensor wire and ground it, note the pressure indication at z ero, then unground and leave the end isolated and check the indicator again, it should peg max. > > If the above has happened you=99re wiring is OK, but the sender is s uspect. Test it by hooking to a regulated air source and checking the ohm r eadings against the rotax manual. If you installed a Honeywell or similar d igital sender, check the leads are properly wired and connected, and use an a ir source to check the pressure over the range from 10-100 PSI. > > Nine times out of ten, it=99s the sender or wiring. If you have oil at the pump (cooler is full), the filter is full of oil, the lifters are so lid, and oil is getting to the bottom of the crankcase that must be burped o ut, oil is going through the engine for sure. If there is a bad bearing, or seal that is gone, it will show in one of two ways: > As low oil pressure during the cranking by hand or starter and on engine s tart. > The initial pull on the prop is very high will indicate an internal bearin g or its support flange has failed. > > Fear not, check all is well with the internal and connections as above. I f it is, then start up. > > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations, Inc. > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Bob Harrison > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:51:14 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Fly day > > > Hi! Remi. > The official Rotax plan to bleed the oil cooler calls for the top of the > tank to be pressurized (so you are correct partly ) however it is not to > use all the oil in the tank or the oil system would be taking in air > defeating the objective of bleeding the cooler. Having embarked on bleedin g > the oil cooler provided the tank level remains adequate and is topped up t o > remain sure the oil cooler is evacuated of air,( that should be sufficient > to achieve oil pressure on the instrument) then replace the ignition plugs > and top up with oil which will pressure oil from the sump to the oil pump > and so evacuate the sump again.( BUT BE SURE NOT TO FINISH UP WITH THE TAN K > OVER FILLED!)( Almost wish I hadn't entered into this issue !) > Regards to all > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi Guerner > Sent: 21 May 2019 08:18 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fly day > > > > > A word of caution here: assuming we are talking about a Rotax, without th e > spark plugs, there is no blow-by to pressurize the crankcase, so the oil i s > not returned to the tank. Therefore the tank may become empty and you pump > air into the oil circuit. The crankcase may be flooded. > To use this method safely, you need to disconnect the oil return line and > set it so that the oil is drained from the crankcase by gravity, and refi ll > the oil tank at the same time to keep the oil level high enough. > > Remi > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489315#489315 > > > > > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > ========== > st Email Forum - > pa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ========== > p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > ums.matronics.com > ========== > p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > matronics.com > ========== > p; - List Contribution Web Site - > p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:24 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Motorglider Wings? From: "John Roedseth" Hi Clive & Europa Fans! I have a Tri-gear Motorglider LX-CWT, which I have been flying about 300+ hours since 2011. I bought it in 2009 as a mono-wheel, made a couple of flights, before rebuilding to tri-gear. There was an article in the Europa Flyer in the last edition before last Xmas about my experience with the motorglider. I have a hangar space for LX-CWT, and as the plane did not fit anymore, I sold the trailer to Ian Cook. The trailer was made by Anschau in Germany, who probably still have the drawings if you need one made. My experiences with the motorglider are largely positive. It will never be a high performance sailplane, but offers fun and above all, it is a very economical touring plane. Not as fast as the short wing, but with 110-115 knots cruise and 13 to 15 liters per hour, who cares? John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489323#489323 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Motorglider Wings? From: Pete Hi John, Could the long wings stay up on a good thermal day? Cheers, Pete > On May 21, 2019, at 4:00 PM, John Roedseth wrote: > > > Hi Clive & Europa Fans! I have a Tri-gear Motorglider LX-CWT, which I have been flying about 300+ hours since 2011. I bought it in 2009 as a mono-wheel, made a couple of flights, before rebuilding to tri-gear. There was an article in the Europa Flyer in the last edition before last Xmas about my experience with the motorglider. > I have a hangar space for LX-CWT, and as the plane did not fit anymore, I sold the trailer to Ian Cook. The trailer was made by Anschau in Germany, who probably still have the drawings if you need one made. > My experiences with the motorglider are largely positive. It will never be a high performance sailplane, but offers fun and above all, it is a very economical touring plane. Not as fast as the short wing, but with 110-115 knots cruise and 13 to 15 liters per hour, who cares? John > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489323#489323 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:31 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may From: "Roland" Dear Europapilots, who's going to join the Le Touquet fly out? https://www.theeuropaclub.org/events/le-touquet-france I hope to meet many of you! Regards Roland PH-ZTI XS TG 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489327#489327 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:25 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may From: "Ivor" Hi Roland I had planned on being there about 0930 or there abouts, Bringing Frank Xuereb another Europa pilot whos still trying to get signed Off on his Mono wheel, See you there, Ivor G-IVER Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489329#489329 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:37 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fly-out Le Touquet 25th may From: "Roland" Hi Ivor, I won't make it 09:30, so it would be good to meet somewhere later in the town or at the beach or so. I've also contacted David Joyce/Europa Club as well to put me on the participant list. My mobile number is +49 160 993 552 43 - just in case. Looking forward! Roland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489330#489330 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.