Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:40 AM - Re: XS mono max gross weight (h&jeuropa)
2. 04:02 AM - Re: Re: XS mono max gross weight (Peter Zutrauen)
3. 04:15 AM - Re: XS mono max gross weight (Raimo Toivio)
4. 04:48 AM - Re: XS mono max gross weight (William Daniell)
5. 04:51 AM - Re: Rotax 912ULS (William Daniell)
6. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: brake locked (Bud Yerly)
7. 07:02 AM - Re: Re: XS mono max gross weight (Fred Klein)
8. 07:27 AM - Re: XS mono max gross weight (Bud Yerly)
9. 10:33 AM - Re: XS mono max gross weight (Raimo Toivio)
10. 12:48 PM - Re: XS mono max gross weight (h&jeuropa)
11. 01:52 PM - Re: Re: XS mono max gross weight (Fred Klein)
12. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: XS mono max gross weight (Bud Yerly)
13. 09:56 PM - New Europa Tri-Gear owner, looking for trailer designs? (Tazmool)
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| Subject: | Re: XS mono max gross weight |
Fred,
There is a memo written by Andy Draper that outlines the reduction in CG envelope
required when using 1450 as max gross weight. I can send you a copy if needed.
In addition, we tested at incrementally higher weights and range of CGs as part
of our 40 hour test.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490316#490316
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| Subject: | Re: XS mono max gross weight |
Hi Jim,
Please share,
Thx!
Pete
On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 6:48 AM h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
> Fred,
>
> There is a memo written by Andy Draper that outlines the reduction in CG
> envelope required when using 1450 as max gross weight. I can send you a
> copy if needed.
>
> In addition, we tested at incrementally higher weights and range of CGs as
> part of our 40 hour test.
>
> Jim & Heather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490316#490316
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: XS mono max gross weight |
Fred,
I have MTOW 1450 lbs /658 kg.
I got a nice letter from Mr. Andy Draper say 15-years ago, and that helped.
It was also possible to make a 2+2 Europa (max 60 kg for back seats,
suitable for two children or just one model type woman, if she is pretty
enough).
My Europas naked weight is 919 lbs /417 kg (today obviously a bit more).
I _know_ around 1550 lbs /703 kg is not a problem for OH-XRT _during
take-off_ - better to land with almost empty tank then.
allekirjoitus - Raimo
Fred Klein kirjoitti 16.7.2019 klo 0:09:
>
> Gents,
>
> My XS mono owners manual lists the max gross weight at 1370 lbs. yet my understanding
is that most Europas in the US are tagged at 1450 lbs., and I know of
one which was approved at 1600 lbs. (believe it or not).
>
> So my question is, how is a higher figure justified if the FAA asks about it?
>
> Fred A194
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: XS mono max gross weight |
I flew medellin panama taking off at over 1500.....skrg is at about 6000
and hot. I didnt notice any difference in performance.
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 07:18 Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
> Fred,
>
> I have MTOW 1450 lbs /658 kg.
>
> I got a nice letter from Mr. Andy Draper say 15-years ago, and that helped.
>
> It was also possible to make a 2+2 Europa (max 60 kg for back seats,
> suitable for two children or just one model type woman, if she is pretty
> enough).
>
> My Europas naked weight is 919 lbs /417 kg (today obviously a bit more).
>
> I *know* around 1550 lbs /703 kg is not a problem for OH-XRT *during
> take-off* - better to land with almost empty tank then.
> - Raimo
>
>
> Fred Klein kirjoitti 16.7.2019 klo 0:09:
>
>
> Gents,
>
> My XS mono owners manual lists the max gross weight at 1370 lbs. yet my understanding
is that most Europas in the US are tagged at 1450 lbs., and I know of
one which was approved at 1600 lbs. (believe it or not).
>
> So my question is, how is a higher figure justified if the FAA asks about it?
>
> Fred A194
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS |
So you think a 40 hour endurance flight......mmmmm
Nope itll have to be next year :-(
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 14:06 Peter Zutrauen <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
> But there's more than 50 hours till Osh-tuesday ;-)
>
> Oh well, next year?
>
> Cheers and blue skies,
> Pete
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 1:45 PM William Daniell <
> wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sadly I am still in the test period and con not leave the test area....:
-(
>> William Daniell
>> LONGPORT
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 3:55 PM Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Great info Will! Thx!
>>>
>>> How bout a show and tell osh next week? ;-)
>>>
>>> On Jul 14, 2019, at 3:05 PM, William Daniell <
>>> wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Just to follow up the last para of Buds email - I have flown Colombian
>>> turbo since 2004 with zero issues - as bud says I only use 33".
>>> I can put you in touch with the man in Colombia (the Colombian
>>> Connection!) - he'll make a kit and come fit it or you can fit it
>>> yourself. Mine complete mod cost about USD4k including new exhaust,
>>> airbox, oil scavenge tank, jets and mounting brackets and I think that
>>> included the turbo. You have to use a stock 80 horse - the high
>>> compression of the ULS causes detonation. The only mod to the engine i
s
>>> something done to the oil pump to make sure that the oil is scavenged.
>>>
>>> The Colombian guy doesnt speak English which will make for some
>>> interesting interactions....he's a great bloke by the way.
>>>
>>> Happy to show and tell if anyone is in the area.
>>>
>>> Will
>>> N460HJ
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 1:50 PM Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">Martin,
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">I know the XS uses a Rotax ring mount
and
>>>> changing engines from the UL to the ULS or 914 basically fits on any X
S
>>>> existing Fire Wall Forward (FWF), but the exhaust bends may be close t
o the
>>>> cowl front and the ULS new fuel pump gets pretty close to the cowl als
o.
>>>> So some fiddling required. 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">The Classic is somewhat different beca
use
>>>> of the shorter nose and exhaust systems changed slightly between the U
L and
>>>> ULS. The 914 on the Classic during an engine upgrade was a pain. Fra
nkly,
>>>> I just installed a whole new XS FWF on my Classic and it was worth eve
ry
>>>> penny. The high torque starter Rotax provides is a bit long for the
>>>> Classic. Consider the aftermarket Sky-Tec starter as it appears to fi
t and
>>>> is roughly half the cost and the same size as the original Rotax low t
orque
>>>> starter. 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">I didn=99t recommend any 912ULS
at Custom
>>>> Flight until after 2006. Hard starting, poor starters needing 12.5 vo
lts
>>>> to start, kick back on start, sprag clutch issues, case cracking, horr
ible
>>>> shutdown and start up shaking, etc. just sowered me to recommending th
e
>>>> engine. After 2006, Rotax finally made adjustments that addressed the
se
>>>> issues. Although they never admitted to what they had to do it was ob
vious
>>>> when the new engines came out. Field reports indicate the 912ULS (pos
t
>>>> 2006) are as reliable as the 80HP UL. 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">The 912ULS new case is stronger, the
>>>> ignition timing and boxes are optimized for smooth starts and running,
it
>>>> is equipped with a high torque starter standard, and many other little
>>>> touches that have completely changed my outlook on the 912ULS. The
>>>> purchase price is very near that of a rebuild 912UL that is 1000 plus
hours
>>>> old. I can do carbs, so the 912ULS is actually more appealing to me t
han a
>>>> 912iS fuel injected engine as its fuel economy does not completely tru
mp
>>>> the maintenance complexity and cost over the short term.
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal"> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">Don
=99t get
>>>> me wrong. The iS engine starts and runs smooth, is very economical, a
nd
>>>> very complex. Your ability to maintain the fuel/electronics has been
>>>> removed from the average owner/operator. Problems currently are with
the
>>>> automatic electronic fuse box switching controls failing, overheating
on
>>>> the ground due to its running in lean at all times, a much larger, or
fan
>>>> augmented, radiator is a must for summer time operations, a larger or
>>>> multiple oil coolers are needed to keep the oil in limits, troubleshoo
ting
>>>> guides are still in flux so give your dealer a break if he can
=99t give you a
>>>> quick turn around. I have worked with a number of Pipistrel owners wi
th
>>>> the iS and Lockwood and Pipistrel have taken ownership of fixing the i
ssues
>>>> under warranty, but slowly and in my opinion, incompletely. Pipistrel
has
>>>> had to add fans to the radiator (as has Lockwood on the AirCam), large
r oil
>>>> coolers, and Pipistrel had to make cowl modifications which were bette
r,
>>>> but not enough. 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">Although the 912ULS burns more gas, it
>>>> doesn=99t overheat on the ground, is easier to troubleshoot, ann
ual
>>>> maintenance doesn=99t require a trip to the Rotax dealer, and is
quite a bit
>>>> cheaper to buy. One can install a carb leaning work around (HACman) i
f
>>>> high altitude fuel economy is needed. The HACman works by lowering th
e
>>>> float bowl pressure via a needle valve controlling vacuum from the int
ake
>>>> manifold to the float bowl tube. The lower pressure in the float bowl
>>>> reduces the flow slightly through the main jet. (A bit Rube Goldberg,
but
>>>> it is effective if you fly above 3500 MSL. It takes some fiddling with
part
>>>> throttle setting and even finely adjusted needle settings to fine tune
your
>>>> mixture to get the EGT in the proper range. WOT makes it less effectiv
e as
>>>> the manifold and carb throat pressure are nearly equal.)
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal"> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">Do n
ot be
>>>> sucked in to the =9Cbig bore, higher power or other aftermarket
cylinder and
>>>> cam mods=9D as the mean time between failure is just not documen
ted. Keep
>>>> the engine reasonably stock. One exception is what I call the
=9CColumbian
>>>> Turbo mod for the 912UL. This is a reasonable turbo normalizing of a
stock
>>>> UL 80 HP to about a 95 HP engine. This mod is now made by an Italian
>>>> company as well. Basically a small auto turbo with dash pot, using Ro
tax
>>>> type plumbing, a different exhaust geometry and the stock carbs. The
key
>>>> is it is a low boost pressure giving more sea level performance at hig
her
>>>> cruising altitudes. Pricey, but well within the capabilities of the 9
12 as
>>>> a 914 is just a 912 with a different set of carbs and turbo management
>>>> system. Other companies have what they call =9CBad Ass=9D
and higher output
>>>> mods increasing output beyond the prop capabilities. Quite pricey, an
d as
>>>> I found on the Jason Parker fuel injected turbo conversion, prone to
>>>> owner/operator tweaking which over boosted the engines making reliabil
ity a
>>>> problem. Props are made in certain power ranges: 80-120, 125-140,
>>>> 150-180, 250-300. Check your prop capability before upgrading your en
gine
>>>> or you may have not just engine costly problems.
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal"> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">Just
my
>>>> two cents. 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">Bud Yerly
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal"> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal"> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">Sent
from
>>>> Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>>> 1484733363178281329x_MsoNormal">
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
>>>> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Martin Tuck <
>>>> MJKTuck@cs.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 13, 2019 10:13:51 PM
>>>> *To:* Europa Builders Forum
>>>> *Subject:* Europa-List: Rotax 912ULS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think I may have traced my intermittent starting problem of my old
>>>> 912UL to the ignition boxes, so I'm weighing up my options.
>>>>
>>>> Two new ignition boxes are around $1,000 each (!) so I'm not sure I
>>>> want
>>>> to sink that kind of money into a 20 year old engine even though it
>>>> only
>>>> has 300 hours on it.
>>>>
>>>> I like the look of the 912ULS, it has a bit more power, a heavy duty
>>>> starter and a slow start module that seems to have resolved the ragged
>>>> starting issues of the early engines.
>>>>
>>>> If you have a 912ULS I'd be interested to hear what you think of the
>>>> engine and how long you have had it. Also, will it fit in the same
>>>> engine ring mount as the 912UL - I'm thinking particularly of the size
>>>> of the starter.
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Martin Tuck
>>>>
>>>> N152MT
>>>>
>>>> ==========
>>>> st Email Forum -
>>>> pa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>>>> ==========
>>>> p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>>> ums.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>>> matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> p; - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>> p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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| Subject: | Re: brake locked |
Sorry,
In Europe you are not used to the 1860s Western horse drawn wagon of our co
wboys and indian TV shows. It had a very simple full proof brake. A lever
operated by hand (and foot as it required heavy pressure) to move a fricti
on block against the wheel. Not efficient, heavy, but with much manual str
ength, worked somewhat effectively.
My sarcastic humor gets me in trouble. Sorry.
I have no intension of changing my brakes. I have Matco cylinders and park
ing brake. Works OK.
Heating of the trigear brake is a real problem. On a long taxi with a stro
ng crosswind, your brakes will get hot enough to melt the plastic brake lin
es, cause Dot3 brake fluid to boil, liquify the rubber seal in the caliper
and inject air into your system from the boiling.
Without nose gear steering or a slightly stiff nose friction plate, the bra
kes are your only steering.
Heat shields on the disk, a slightly stiff nose friction plate, help but th
is is a common problem for the castering nose gear aircraft. Wheel pants i
nsulate the wheel and tire area from being able to radiate the disk heat aw
ay. Many certified aircraft fly with no wheel pants as a result of this ma
intenance problem. The SR22 added NACA ducts to their pant to cool their m
ains during taxi, others just use pants that only cover half the wheel. Th
ey look like dress pants that are too short. These high water pants are go
od mud flaps to keep the wing clean from dirt, but aerodynamically they are
worthless as they add weight and do not improve performance. These high p
ants and ducts help dissipate heat to the atmosphere though.
I apologize I never did a paper on my disk heat protection (heat shields) I
had to do for some of my clients with heavy aircraft, and long taxi routes
.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of diamond <emanu@gmx.fr>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 11:07:05 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: brake locked
Thanks for you response.
I don=99t understand what you mean by :
=C2=AB=C2 I=EF=BDm thinking of going to a wagon wheel wood to tire park
brake setup with a long handle and cable=C2 =C2=BB.
You want to avoid to use park brakes?
I wonder which fluid is the best to minimize this problem...
I requested a quote from berringer for a full brake set including wheels an
d I=99m waiting for it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490251#490251
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| Subject: | Re: XS mono max gross weight |
Jim,
Thanks...A copy of Andy=99s letter would be very much appreciated .
Fred
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 16, 2019, at 3:54 AM, Peter Zutrauen <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Please share,
> Thx!
> Pete
>
>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 6:48 AM h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> Fred,
>>
>> There is a memo written by Andy Draper that outlines the reduction in CG e
nvelope required when using 1450 as max gross weight. I can send you a cop
y if needed.
>>
>> In addition, we tested at incrementally higher weights and range of CGs a
s part of our 40 hour test.
>>
>> Jim & Heather
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490316#490316
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?Europa-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
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| Subject: | XS mono max gross weight |
Raimo,
The trigear has the same characteristics. Weight is not the main problem.
The trigear soft steel attachments will wear as the gear twisting will cau
se the bolt hole at the gear top to wear. The gear leg supports will get e
longated and the bolt holes elongated and the gear gets quite loose feeling
when the plane is jacked.
As far as performance, I found the CG does tighten a bit as you approach 16
00 pounds. I was surprised that the aft CG was not really that bad, but a
forward CG made landing flare out less than enjoyable forward of 59 inches.
Sink rates approaching in the flare at 60 require attention and more care
in the round out. Any power off and the sink rate is noticeable. A 912 o
r 912S with fixed pitch prop makes go arounds at over gross conditions a bi
t dicey with the flaps and gear full down. With the trigear, half flaps is
quite comfortable to land with, and 10 degrees on takeoff eliminates that
old sinking feeling on takeoff.
My paper attached basically explained to my customers who hadn=92t actually
flight tested with me, some of my concerns and considerations.
I must admit, that I have taken off at a full 1600 lbs in 12AY. I=92m not
proud of that, but when you have to move a 350 pound football player, the p
lane can do it. It was the first time I=92ve ever rotated my Europa to tak
eoff attitude and it just sat on the runway and waited a bit. The 914 pull
ed me off and we were well on our way. Anita and I did a trip at 1500 or s
o pounds. The trigear without pilot and passenger after fueling will sit o
n its tail. With pilot and pax and full fuel, the CG was right at 62.5=94
and the pitch force per G and stall characteristics were acceptable.
A 1450 pound Europa with the CG from 59 to 62 is just fine. With full flap
s in the mono, this CG range is more than conservative. In a mono, that 16
PSI tire may need to be pumped up a bit as it is really going to flex duri
ng landing and taxi. You may spin the tire on the wheel and tear the tube
in this condition. I=92m not worried about the gear mechanism strength tha
t much. The rubber block needs to be looked at though. Anything above 145
0 and it starts looking kind of flat. Cracks will soon form and then you n
eed a new rubber block.
Anyway, my two cents are in the paper on Wt. and balance, CG range, and loa
ding.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 6:44:15 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS mono max gross weight
Fred,
I have MTOW 1450 lbs /658 kg.
I got a nice letter from Mr. Andy Draper say 15-years ago, and that helped.
It was also possible to make a 2+2 Europa (max 60 kg for back seats, suita
ble for two children or just one model type woman, if she is pretty enough)
.
My Europas naked weight is 919 lbs /417 kg (today obviously a bit more).
I know around 1550 lbs /703 kg is not a problem for OH-XRT during take-off
- better to land with almost empty tank then.
- Raimo
Fred Klein kirjoitti 16.7.2019 klo 0:09:
to:freddythek10@gmail.com>
Gents,
My XS mono owners manual lists the max gross weight at 1370 lbs. yet my und
erstanding is that most Europas in the US are tagged at 1450 lbs., and I kn
ow of one which was approved at 1600 lbs. (believe it or not).
So my question is, how is a higher figure justified if the FAA asks about i
t?
Fred A194
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: XS mono max gross weight |
Bud,
I will comment between the lines:
allekirjoitus
Bud Yerly kirjoitti 16.7.2019 klo 17:26:
>
> Raimo,
>
> The trigear has the same characteristics. Weight is not the main
> problem. The trigear soft steel attachments will wear as the gear
> twisting will cause the bolt hole at the gear top to wear. The gear
> leg supports will get elongated and the bolt holes elongated and the
> gear gets quite loose feeling when the plane is jacked.
>
Thats obviously.
>
> As far as performance, I found the CG does tighten a bit as you
> approach 1600 pounds. I was surprised that the aft CG was not really
> that bad, but a forward CG made landing flare out less than enjoyable
> forward of 59 inches. Sink rates approaching in the flare at 60
> require attention and more care in the round out. Any power off and
> the sink rate is noticeable. A 912 or 912S with fixed pitch prop
> makes go arounds at over gross conditions a bit dicey with the flaps
> and gear full down. With the trigear, half flaps is quite comfortable
> to land with, and 10 degrees on takeoff eliminates that old sinking
> feeling on takeoff.
>
Exactly. Thats why I moved to the CS-prop. I have Airmaster & 912S and
Im 100% pleased.
>
> My paper attached basically explained to my customers who hadnt
> actually flight tested with me, some of my concerns and considerations.
>
> I must admit, that I have taken off at a full 1600 lbs in 12AY. Im
> not proud of that, but when you have to move a 350 pound football
> player, the plane can do it. It was the first time Ive ever rotated
> my Europa to takeoff attitude and it just sat on the runway and waited
> a bit. The 914 pulled me off and we were well on our way. Anita and I
> did a trip at 1500 or so pounds. The trigear without pilot and
> passenger after fueling will sit on its tail. With pilot and pax and
> full fuel, the CG was right at 62.5 and the pitch force per G and
> stall characteristics were acceptable.
>
Oh, I could ever imagine to take a passenger 350 pound /almost 160 kg!
How in the hell there was room enough for him? Once I flew to Denmark
Endealave island (say 4 hours) with a passenger 77 inches tall (196 cm)
and that was a nightmare, when coming back. He was quite skinny, weight
around 240 lbs /110 kg.
>
> A 1450 pound Europa with the CG from 59 to 62 is just fine. With full
> flaps in the mono, this CG range is more than conservative. In a
> mono, that 16 PSI tire may need to be pumped up a bit as it is really
> going to flex during landing and taxi. You may spin the tire on the
> wheel and tear the tube in this condition. Im not worried about the
> gear mechanism strength that much. The rubber block needs to be
> looked at though. Anything above 1450 and it starts looking kind of
> flat. Cracks will soon form and then you need a new rubber block.
>
Confirm! I have since my regular tire problems used always high pressure
& nitrogen & tyre puncture liquid inside always.
(I will never forget when landing with an empty monowheel, landing was
_super-short_ and taking the plane off the runway _quick_ly
was...extremely difficult without destroying it)
> Anyway, my two cents are in the paper on Wt. and balance, CG range,
> and loading.
>
Your two cents are worth of two Dollars /Euros at least!
- Raimo
> Best Regards,
>
> Bud Yerly
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Raimo Toivio
> <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 6:44:15 AM
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: XS mono max gross weight
>
> Fred,
>
> I have MTOW 1450 lbs /658 kg.
>
> I got a nice letter from Mr. Andy Draper say 15-years ago, and that
> helped.
>
> It was also possible to make a 2+2 Europa (max 60 kg for back seats,
> suitable for two children or just one model type woman, if she is
> pretty enough).
>
> My Europas naked weight is 919 lbs /417 kg (today obviously a bit more).
>
> I _know_ around 1550 lbs /703 kg is not a problem for OH-XRT _during
> take-off_ - better to land with almost empty tank then.
>
> allekirjoitus - Raimo
>
>
> Fred Klein kirjoitti 16.7.2019 klo 0:09:
>>
>> Gents,
>>
>> My XS mono owners manual lists the max gross weight at 1370 lbs. yet my understanding
is that most Europas in the US are tagged at 1450 lbs., and I know of
one which was approved at 1600 lbs. (believe it or not).
>>
>> So my question is, how is a higher figure justified if the FAA asks about it?
>>
>> Fred A194
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: XS mono max gross weight |
Attached is memo from Andy Draper concerning increased max gross weight.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490339#490339
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mtoww_384.pdf
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: XS mono max gross weight |
Thank you Sir !!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 16, 2019, at 12:48 PM, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Attached is memo from Andy Draper concerning increased max gross weight.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490339#490339
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/mtoww_384.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: XS mono max gross weight |
Jim, Ramio and Fred,
Attached is a VN diagram and the effects of the 1450 increase I did for Eur
opa some 13 years ago. I never put this in my previous post as it goes ove
r the head of many pilots. My numbers are slightly different than the Drap
er/Dykins numbers and I believe they are being very conservative. Andy was
gone by 2006 and no one at Europa was willing to pay for the flight testin
g so it just got dropped.
Anyway, I think a CG Limit of 59 and 62 are fine for most of us. If you ha
ve a mono with a heavy nose and you added a tail weight to counter balance
it, and had long wings, then I expect that Don Dykins concern for keeping t
he CG forward a bit more may be prudent. A short wing Europa Mono or Trige
ar for that matter and a pilot with good feet, I=92m not concerned about mu
ch other than the increase in sink rate and stopping the rate of sink prior
to ground effect.
Great discussion but without flight testing and confirmation it=92s worthle
ss. I flight tested my aircraft, and it is fine in all phases at 1450.
I still don=92t recommend anything over 1450. Up to 1450 the change in per
formance and handling are negligible in my opinion. For the mono pilots, i
t is like going from a Classic to an XS mono wheel. That extra 50 pounds o
f the XS and gear in some cases made for me to have to pay more attention d
uring the round out and flare. For those with a heavy plane and glider win
gs, for God=92s sake do the Mod 78 and keep it light. Fly the plane within
the CG limits discussed above and you should be just fine. However, go an
d flight test and make sure. Start 5 mistakes high to give your self more
time if you upset the aircraft or get into an unusual attitude, or let some
one who is experienced do the flight tests. I have never found a poor hand
ling problem in either the short or long wing at 1450 or slightly over that
in the CG range discussed, but then again, we flight tested.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 3:48:09 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: XS mono max gross weight
Attached is memo from Andy Draper concerning increased max gross weight.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490339#490339
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mtoww_384.pdf
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| Subject: | New Europa Tri-Gear owner, looking for trailer designs? |
Greetings Everyone,
I am a proud new owner of a 2005 Europa Tri-Gear.
One of the features that drew me to this design was the ability to fold up onto
a trailer, however my plane did not come with one :(
(it was kept in a hangar its entire life)
I live in Canada, there are no Europa resources, trailer builders here as far as
I know. That leaves only the option to design and build one myself.
Are there any designs, templates, cad drawings available for the Tri-Gear trailer?
this would help a lot!
I'm hoping to retain the ability to fit into a single car garage.
Any and all Help would be greatly appreciated!
Tazmool
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490351#490351
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