---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/20/20: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:27 AM - Re: Screws for top engine cowling (JonathanMilbank) 2. 06:40 AM - Re: Screws for top engine cowling (William Daniell) 3. 08:22 AM - Re: Screws for top engine cowling (Bud Yerly) 4. 12:26 PM - Re: Screws for top engine cowling (h&jeuropa) 5. 03:28 PM - Re: Screws for top engine cowling (JonathanMilbank) 6. 07:28 PM - Screws for top engine cowling (Erich Trombley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:36 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Screws for top engine cowling From: "JonathanMilbank" Wow, what a fulsome reply, thanks Bud! Surely people have been awarded masters' degrees for shorter treatises? Your reports on various aircraft flight characteristics, which you have test flown, must have been pretty comprehensive. Anyhow you've given me plenty of food for thought and I'll take all of it to heart; especially keeping plenty of spare screws and regarding them as consumables. The suggestions on appropriate tools and how to use them properly is equally appreciated. Note to self: "Ignore my maternal Scottish heritage and desist from trying to extract maximum value from things before discarding them!" And thanks also for replying so quickly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494900#494900 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:05 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Screws for top engine cowling Ive been wondering if there is an alternative to the phillips heads. I use hex sockets #10-32 on my belly plates and everywhere else precisely for the stripping issue. So much easier if not quite as aerodynamic. William Daniell +1 786 878 0246 On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 22:55 Bud Yerly wrote: > Jonathan and all, > > For some reason it took months to get back on the list here. I have to > admit. It was my fault. These spam defense filters are interesting. > Well, so are airplanes and they are expensive in time and material to > maintain just like computer servers. > > > Jonathan, > > You will find that stainless steel machine screws of all types are fairly > soft. Bits are very hard. Any slipping of the head will damage the > Phillips head and make it unusable. HAVE A TON OF SPARES! > > > The most widely used cowl screw is the AN 507 or MS24693 stainless screws > of =C2=BD, 5/8 and 1 inch (MS24693-C272, -C273, C274) and spares must be kept on > hand. These 100 degree countersunk screws have a small head and can stri p > easily. These type cowl screws are a #10 screw and take a #2 Phillips > head. The #8 screws take a #2 Phillips and the #6 screws take a #1 > Phillips. On the web search for =9CHow to choose the right tip for screw > types=9D. There is some good stuff to learn. > > > To prevent stripping out of your screws, I strongly recommend a large > handle ratcheting screwdriver with removable tips that fits your hand > properly, is easy to rotate, and allows you to push and rotate securely. > My favorite screwdrivers are my Snap-On ratcheting type and the straight > handle ones are by Klien. > > Expensive unless you get a deal on a Snap-On. > > > For those really lazy like me, I use an electric screwdriver, but I only > use one with a friction clutch or torque setting. I have recommended the > friction clutch driver to virtually all my in shop and on line clients. > The electric screw driver can be of only 3 volts or as high as 8. More > power means more torque, which means it will be easier to strip out a hea d. > The torque clutch prevents over tightening for those of you who set the > screw to ridiculous torques. A #10 stainless machine screw only needs 31 > inch pounds to be fully tight. That is #8 position on most electric scre w > drivers in my experience. I use the term pinky tight. > > > Another important point is ergonomics. A proper sized and shaped handle > will allow a good grip, proper positioning and give you a feel as well as a > torque clutch to prevent driving the screw in too tight, allow you to hol d > the bit firmly in the screw head and prevent cross threading the screw > fully into its seat. Keep a good tight quarter or stubby screw driver se t > and a ratcheting handle close quarter type. > > > A stainless screw in a steel nutplate (K1000 style) will eventually wear > the soft stainless out. Throw the screw away and replace it if its head is > worn, the threads are galled or bent. If the nutplate is loose, simply > insert a steel screw in the nutplate about two threads short of the > nutplate tip and use a Vice Grip to squeeze the nutplate just a bit. If > the nutplate is way to tight, run a tap in it slightly to ease the squeez e. > > > As fare as electric screw drivers, I have a Hitachi DB3DL2 3.6 volt screw > gun now. Easy to use, can be straight or pistol grip, the drive buttons > can be used single handed and the collet lock is smooth and easy to use. I > buy proper locking bits (and nut drivers) of the sizes needed. My origin al > electric screw gun was a very cheap 3 volt with a non locking collar, and > it worked OK. As I used the cheapy gun more and more, I upgraded to a > locking collet. Good tools are indispensable. > > It is essential that you keep a list of spares. Screws are like oil and > gas as far as I=99m concerned, consumables. > > Clients have noted I have a spare screw, rivet, nut, bolt, wheel bearing, > pitot tips, clamps, hoses, tubes and tires so I am not stuck looking for > stuff when I needed it. If it is a screw on my plane, panel, or wheel > pant, I have a spare in the shop and for those frequently dropped, lost o r > specialized, I keep it in my cockpit tool kit spares. I have a list for my > expendables on my website and drawers full of stuff in the shop for each > screw, washer, nut, etc. On my annual, if a screw is questionable, > corroded, or compromised, I throw it out. > > > Best Regards, > > Bud Yerly > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > > *From: *JonathanMilbank > *Sent: *Wednesday, February 19, 2020 7:53 PM > *To: *europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject: *Europa-List: Screws for top engine cowling > > > jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> > > My aircraft was originally built as a Classic and more recently converted > to Neville Eyre engine cowlings, while I continue to use the same kind of > captive nuts and screws ( 23 off ) as before. > > I have a considerable assortment of screwdrivers and several different > styles of Phillips screwdriver tips, yet even with considerable care and > not using an electric driver, it doesn't take too many re-fastenings befo re > the slots in the screw heads become worn out. > > I have two questions. Although the builder's manual describes the screws > as EU 11, what is the correct part number in the LAS Aerospace catalogue, > or any other source, for me to use when ordering the short screws? Which > Phillips tip is the best to use with these screws? > > Thanks, Jonathan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494897#494897 > > > ========== > Month -- > Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) > r> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > ========== > st Email Forum - > pa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ========== > p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > ums.matronics.com > ========== > p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > matronics.com > ========== > p; - List Contribution Web Site - > p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:09 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: Re: Europa-List: Screws for top engine cowling There are some. Research the screw manufacturers. You need a #10, 100 deg ree countersink with a flat head. Happy web browsing. Bud Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of William Daniell Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 9:38:08 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Screws for top engine cowling Ive been wondering if there is an alternative to the phillips heads. I us e hex sockets #10-32 on my belly plates and everywhere else precisely for t he stripping issue. So much easier if not quite as aerodynamic. William Daniell +1 786 878 0246 On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 22:55 Bud Yerly > wrote: Jonathan and all, For some reason it took months to get back on the list here. I have to adm it. It was my fault. These spam defense filters are interesting. Well, s o are airplanes and they are expensive in time and material to maintain jus t like computer servers. Jonathan, You will find that stainless steel machine screws of all types are fairly s oft. Bits are very hard. Any slipping of the head will damage the Phillip s head and make it unusable. HAVE A TON OF SPARES! The most widely used cowl screw is the AN 507 or MS24693 stainless screws o f =BD, 5/8 and 1 inch (MS24693-C272, -C273, C274) and spares must be kept o n hand. These 100 degree countersunk screws have a small head and can stri p easily. These type cowl screws are a #10 screw and take a #2 Phillips he ad. The #8 screws take a #2 Phillips and the #6 screws take a #1 Phillips. On the web search for =93How to choose the right tip for screw types=94. There is some good stuff to learn. To prevent stripping out of your screws, I strongly recommend a large handl e ratcheting screwdriver with removable tips that fits your hand properly, is easy to rotate, and allows you to push and rotate securely. My favorite screwdrivers are my Snap-On ratcheting type and the straight handle ones a re by Klien. [cid:image001.jpg@01D5E77C.8EB20510]Expensive unless you get a deal on a Sn ap-On. For those really lazy like me, I use an electric screwdriver, but I only us e one with a friction clutch or torque setting. I have recommended the fri ction clutch driver to virtually all my in shop and on line clients. The e lectric screw driver can be of only 3 volts or as high as 8. More power me ans more torque, which means it will be easier to strip out a head. The tor que clutch prevents over tightening for those of you who set the screw to r idiculous torques. A #10 stainless machine screw only needs 31 inch pounds to be fully tight. That is #8 position on most electric screw drivers in my experience. I use the term pinky tight. Another important point is ergonomics. A proper sized and shaped handle wi ll allow a good grip, proper positioning and give you a feel as well as a t orque clutch to prevent driving the screw in too tight, allow you to hold t he bit firmly in the screw head and prevent cross threading the screw fully into its seat. Keep a good tight quarter or stubby screw driver set and a ratcheting handle close quarter type. [cid:image003.jpg@01D5E77F.4F80C680] A stainless screw in a steel nutplate (K1000 style) will eventually wear th e soft stainless out. Throw the screw away and replace it if its head is w orn, the threads are galled or bent. If the nutplate is loose, simply inse rt a steel screw in the nutplate about two threads short of the nutplate ti p and use a Vice Grip to squeeze the nutplate just a bit. If the nutplate is way to tight, run a tap in it slightly to ease the squeeze. As fare as electric screw drivers, I have a Hitachi DB3DL2 3.6 volt screw g un now. Easy to use, can be straight or pistol grip, the drive buttons can be used single handed and the collet lock is smooth and easy to use. I bu y proper locking bits (and nut drivers) of the sizes needed. My original e lectric screw gun was a very cheap 3 volt with a non locking collar, and it worked OK. As I used the cheapy gun more and more, I upgraded to a lockin g collet. Good tools are indispensable. [cid:image007.jpg@01D5E77F.4F80C680] It is essential that you keep a list of spares. Screws are like oil and ga s as far as I=92m concerned, consumables. Clients have noted I have a spare screw, rivet, nut, bolt, wheel bearing, p itot tips, clamps, hoses, tubes and tires so I am not stuck looking for stu ff when I needed it. If it is a screw on my plane, panel, or wheel pant, I have a spare in the shop and for those frequently dropped, lost or special ized, I keep it in my cockpit tool kit spares. I have a list for my expend ables on my website and drawers full of stuff in the shop for each screw, w asher, nut, etc. On my annual, if a screw is questionable, corroded, or co mpromised, I throw it out. Best Regards, Bud Yerly Sent from Mail for Window s 10 From: JonathanMilbank Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 7:53 PM Subject: Europa-List: Screws for top engine cowling > My aircraft was originally built as a Classic and more recently converted t o Neville Eyre engine cowlings, while I continue to use the same kind of ca ptive nuts and screws ( 23 off ) as before. I have a considerable assortment of screwdrivers and several different styl es of Phillips screwdriver tips, yet even with considerable care and not us ing an electric driver, it doesn't take too many re-fastenings before the s lots in the screw heads become worn out. I have two questions. Although the builder's manual describes the screws as EU 11, what is the correct part number in the LAS Aerospace catalogue, or any other source, for me to use when ordering the short screws? Which Phill ips tip is the best to use with these screws? Thanks, Jonathan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494897#494897 Month -- Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) r> http://www.matronics.com/contribution p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. st Email Forum - pa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - ums.matronics.com p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - matronics.com p; - List Contribution Web Site - p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:44 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Screws for top engine cowling From: "h&jeuropa" Hi All, We also had problems with Phillips head screws becoming worn. We have changed to 100 deg stainless steel Torx head screws. We purchase them from MicroFasteners. Here is the webpage: https://www.microfasteners.com/home.php?cat=620 We use a small amount of BoeLube to handle the possible galling due to different metals. Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494906#494906 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:10 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Screws for top engine cowling From: "JonathanMilbank" Hi Jim and Heather, The Torx headed screws seem to be the answer to my prayers, so I've looked at the Microfasteners link which you gave. Could you confirm whether the threads of the Torx screws match the threads on the MS24693 screws which I use at present? There isn't any UK supplier of the Torx headed screws which I can find on the internet, so it would be good to get some reassurance before I place a foreign order with Microfasteners. Thanks, Jonathan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494911#494911 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:53 PM PST US From: Erich Trombley Subject: Europa-List: Screws for top engine cowling Hi Jonathan, You may want to consider using Southco quarter turn fasteners. They are available in both slotted and Phillips head. I also installed a hinge along the side of the cowl with removable hinge pin, in lieu of fastener s. This makes for a cowl that is quick and easy to remove. I believe there is a Europa Club mod for the fasteners. I chose to go w ith one size of fastener -260 even though the thickness of the cowl and firewall flange vary. I simply padded out the back of the receptacle to accommodate the one fastener length. Erich Trombley N28ET Classic mono 914 ____________________________________________________________ Urologist Tells Men To "Fix" Their ED With This New Trick! 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