---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/13/20: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:01 AM - Re: Hacman Gen 3 Mixture Control (Remi Guerner) 2. 01:31 AM - Rotax 914 and Dynon comparability to calculate actual fuel used (Tony Renshaw) 3. 02:10 AM - Re: Hacman Gen 3 Mixture Control (captaincooper) 4. 03:39 AM - Re: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc (Gilles Thesee) 5. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc (William Daniell) 6. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc (William Daniell) 7. 06:12 AM - Re: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc (William Daniell) 8. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc (Gilles Thesee) 9. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc (William Daniell) 10. 12:39 PM - Re: Hacman Gen 3 Mixture Control (rparigoris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:53 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Hacman Gen 3 Mixture Control From: "Remi Guerner" > Coop, 30mm H2o= .043 PSI That is an extremely low pressure. I am working on a new device using an small axial fan to generate the succion. It works very well on the bench. I will test it in flight within the next few weeks and will come back with the results. Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496306#496306 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:31 AM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 914 and Dynon comparability to calculate actual fuel used Gidday, I am planning a fuel return line for a 914 powered aircraft and wondering what the fuel impeller in the return line of a Dynon setup looks like. Im keen to know where I should locate a fuel return line reference the top of the foot wells on the firewall, how high I penetrate the return line through the firewall. If anyone has this combination Id be keen to know where you have put your return line inducer? Thanks. Regards Tony Renshaw ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:10:22 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Hacman Gen 3 Mixture Control From: "captaincooper" Look forward to hearing. I bought a micro suction pump to try out also. Wont arrive for two months though, but will let you know. I find with the hacman taking its suction from the Venturi runs out of suction and I cant get to peak EGT -------- Coop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496308#496308 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc From: Gilles Thesee Le 13/05/2020 04:17, William Daniell a crit: > > /Fortunately my 912 turbo will run at low boost on just the mechanical > pump so i am not electrically dependant./ > / > / > /On another note what is the max possible amps produced by the rotax > alt? / Will, We found that the alternator can easily supply its short circuit limit current of 21A without thermal distress. The limiting item is the voltage regulator. -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:06 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc Mmmm thanks So where did the question come from? I have a 912 turbo with a skyview. About once a flight my amps go up off the chart - 70a - ending up with a red x on the screen (no sparks or smoke :-)). After which the instrument comes alive and the amps reduce to normal 7-10 depending on the load. And remain normal thereafter. When the amps are climbing the reading can be "reset" by turning off the alternator and then turning it back in again. I have a hall effect sensor on the thick wire which charges the battery and this changes very little as on would expect. I asked the europa and the aeroelectric forums and dynon. Several people said they had similar events. So having checked the wiring i assumed that this was a dynon bug. AND ....I always understood that the alternator was unable to produce more than 18A hence people adding external alternator. But is thus a fair assumption? Could it be a faulty regulator? Will William Daniell +1 786 878 0246 On Wed, May 13, 2020, 06:41 Gilles Thesee wrote: > Le 13/05/2020 =C3- 04:17, William Daniell a =C3=A9crit : > > > *Fortunately my 912 turbo will run at low boost on just the mechanical > pump so i am not electrically dependant.* > > *On another note what is the max possible amps produced by the rotax alt? * > > > Will, > > We found that the alternator can easily supply its short circuit limit > current of 21A without thermal distress. > The limiting item is the voltage regulator. > > > -- > Best regards, > Gilles > http://contrails.free.fr > http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:12 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc PS: 1. this was a new rectifier 3 years ago and has 225 hours on it 2. Thanks to your and other comments on the forum although it is on the engine side of the firewall, it does have its own cooling air supply via a scat hose from a small scoop in the cowling inlet. William Daniell LONGPORT +1 786 878 0246 On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:52 AM William Daniell wrote: > Mmmm thanks > > So where did the question come from? > > I have a 912 turbo with a skyview. > > About once a flight my amps go up off the chart - 70a - ending up with a > red x on the screen (no sparks or smoke :-)). After which the instrumen t > comes alive and the amps reduce to normal 7-10 depending on the load. And > remain normal thereafter. > > When the amps are climbing the reading can be "reset" by turning off the > alternator and then turning it back in again. > > I have a hall effect sensor on the thick wire which charges the battery > and this changes very little as on would expect. > > I asked the europa and the aeroelectric forums and dynon. Several people > said they had similar events. So having checked the wiring i assumed > that this was a dynon bug. > AND ....I always understood that the alternator was unable to produce mor e > than 18A hence people adding external alternator. But is thus a fair > assumption? > > Could it be a faulty regulator? > > Will > > > William Daniell > +1 786 878 0246 > > On Wed, May 13, 2020, 06:41 Gilles Thesee > wrote: > >> Le 13/05/2020 =C3- 04:17, William Daniell a =C3=A9crit : >> >> >> *Fortunately my 912 turbo will run at low boost on just the mechanical >> pump so i am not electrically dependant.* >> >> *On another note what is the max possible amps produced by the rotax alt ? >> * >> >> >> Will, >> >> We found that the alternator can easily supply its short circuit limit >> current of 21A without thermal distress. >> The limiting item is the voltage regulator. >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Gilles >> http://contrails.free.fr >> http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr >> > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:14 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc PPS - I have the OVP as required on the Z16 and this has not tripped. William Daniell LONGPORT +1 786 878 0246 On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:09 AM William Daniell wrote: > PS: > 1. this was a new rectifier 3 years ago and has 225 hours on it > 2. Thanks to your and other comments on the forum although it is on the > engine side of the firewall, it does have its own cooling air supply via a > scat hose from a small scoop in the cowling inlet. > > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +1 786 878 0246 > > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:52 AM William Daniell < > wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Mmmm thanks >> >> So where did the question come from? >> >> I have a 912 turbo with a skyview. >> >> About once a flight my amps go up off the chart - 70a - ending up with a >> red x on the screen (no sparks or smoke :-)). After which the instrume nt >> comes alive and the amps reduce to normal 7-10 depending on the load. An d >> remain normal thereafter. >> >> When the amps are climbing the reading can be "reset" by turning off the >> alternator and then turning it back in again. >> >> I have a hall effect sensor on the thick wire which charges the battery >> and this changes very little as on would expect. >> >> I asked the europa and the aeroelectric forums and dynon. Several peopl e >> said they had similar events. So having checked the wiring i assumed >> that this was a dynon bug. >> AND ....I always understood that the alternator was unable to produce >> more than 18A hence people adding external alternator. But is thus a fa ir >> assumption? >> >> Could it be a faulty regulator? >> >> Will >> >> >> >> William Daniell >> +1 786 878 0246 >> >> On Wed, May 13, 2020, 06:41 Gilles Thesee >> wrote: >> >>> Le 13/05/2020 =C3- 04:17, William Daniell a =C3=A9crit : >>> >>> >>> *Fortunately my 912 turbo will run at low boost on just the mechanical >>> pump so i am not electrically dependant.* >>> >>> *On another note what is the max possible amps produced by the rotax >>> alt? * >>> >>> >>> Will, >>> >>> We found that the alternator can easily supply its short circuit limit >>> current of 21A without thermal distress. >>> The limiting item is the voltage regulator. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Gilles >>> http://contrails.free.fr >>> http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr >>> >> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc From: Gilles Thesee Le 13/05/2020 14:52, William Daniell a crit: > / > / > /I have a 912 turbo with a skyview./ > / > / > /About once a flight my amps go up off the chart - 70a - ending up > with a red x on the screen (no sparks or smoke :-)). After which the > instrument comes alive and the amps reduce to normal 7-10 depending on > the load. And remain normal thereafter./ > / > / > /When the amps are climbing the reading can be "reset" by turning off > the alternator and then turning it back in again./ > / > / > /I have a hall effect sensor on the thick wire which charges the > battery and this changes very little as on would expect./ > / > / > /I asked the europa and the aeroelectric forums and dynon. Several > people said they had similar events. So having checked the wiring i > assumed that this was a dynon bug. / > /AND ....I always understood that the alternator was unable to produce > more than 18A hence people adding external alternator. But is thus a > fair assumption?/ > / > / > /Could it be a faulty regulator?/ Will, Understand your concern. I'd say an ammeter is not very useful as a *cockpit* instrument. An alternator is physically /incapable /of supplying more than its short-circuit current (21A for the Rotax). What counts is *voltage* : under 12V, no charging, above 13+ V, system is charging, above ~15V, overvoltage etc. I cannot help you on the Dynon, since I never installed or used one, and never bothered to read its manual. Nevertheless, anytime you have an odd looking *instrument indication*, the first thing to do is check what the *actual value* of the indicated parameter is. So the first thing to do is record or take note of the ship circuits voltage with an idependent instrument. If you don't have a panel voltmeter, your VHF certainly provides a voltage indication. Otherwise you'll need a portable voltmeter or datalogger. Only then will come the time to make assumptions as to what actually occurs and what is at fault. FWIW, -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:44 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt switc My voltage is a steady 13.8 so going back to my school electricity assuming a constant load and constant voltage the amps should be constant as well. My second ammeter on the bat + fat wire shows a consistent charge once the starting energy has been recovered. In any case I will follow your advice and measure V and A with a separate instrument. thanks Will William Daniell LONGPORT +1 786 878 0246 On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:25 AM Gilles Thesee wrote: > Le 13/05/2020 =C3- 14:52, William Daniell a =C3=A9crit : > > > *I have a 912 turbo with a skyview.* > > *About once a flight my amps go up off the chart - 70a - ending up with a > red x on the screen (no sparks or smoke :-)). After which the instrumen t > comes alive and the amps reduce to normal 7-10 depending on the load. And > remain normal thereafter.* > > *When the amps are climbing the reading can be "reset" by turning off the > alternator and then turning it back in again.* > > *I have a hall effect sensor on the thick wire which charges the battery > and this changes very little as on would expect.* > > *I asked the europa and the aeroelectric forums and dynon. Several peopl e > said they had similar events. So having checked the wiring i assumed > that this was a dynon bug. * > *AND ....I always understood that the alternator was unable to produce > more than 18A hence people adding external alternator. But is thus a fai r > assumption?* > > *Could it be a faulty regulator?* > > Will, > > Understand your concern. > > I'd say an ammeter is not very useful as a *cockpit* instrument. An > alternator is physically *incapable *of supplying more than its > short-circuit current (21A for the Rotax). > > What counts is *voltage* : under 12V, no charging, above 13+ V, system is > charging, above ~15V, overvoltage etc. > > I cannot help you on the Dynon, since I never installed or used one, and > never bothered to read its manual. > > > Nevertheless, anytime you have an odd looking *instrument indication*, th e > first thing to do is check what the *actual value* of the indicated > parameter is. > > So the first thing to do is record or take note of the ship circuits > voltage with an idependent instrument. If you don't have a panel voltmete r, > your VHF certainly provides a voltage indication. Otherwise you'll need a > portable voltmeter or datalogger. > > Only then will come the time to make assumptions as to what actually > occurs and what is at fault. > > FWIW, > -- > Best regards, > Gilles > http://contrails.free.fr > http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:49 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Hacman Gen 3 Mixture Control From: "rparigoris" Hi Kingsley You wrote To my knowledge, the Bing Carb has no power jet. A 914 doesn't have a power jet but it does have a hand in breeze. When requesting war emergency power an enriching solenoid does exactly opposite of what a Hacman does and increases pressure to float bowl and enriches the mixture. It does this by instead of plumbing float bowl to airbox pressure, it plumbs it to an area of higher pressure than the airbox pressure. 914 is very dependent on float bowl gasket not leaking. I'm going Viton gasket and 912 wire bale and not overtorque bowl and bend float bowl. I imagine with a 912 or 912S with Hacman flaot bowl seal is more important than without? Ron P. 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