---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/28/20: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:12 AM - Re: Post curing response (flyingphil2) 2. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Post curing response (Pete) 3. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Post curing response (Bud Yerly) 4. 02:20 PM - Re: Post curing response (flyingphil2) 5. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Post curing response (Pete) 6. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: Post curing response (Bud Yerly) 7. 07:00 PM - Re: Post curing response (rparigoris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:16 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Post curing response From: "flyingphil2" Tony, just out of interest, when were the control surfaces laid up? I remember having a conversation with Andy Draper about this and I've just read the Gurit 'Guide to Composites'. As I understand it, post curing is only necessary if you are in a rush and want to crack on with the build. Otherwise you have to wait but the resin will eventually go off at room temperature and according to the Gurit document that may take 'several hours or even days at room temperature'. If your control surfaces were built more than a few weeks ago then I believe you can assume the resin is cured if it was mixed correctly. Have I understood that correctly? I have some control surfaces in my possession that were laid up in 2001. They've not been post cured but I'm pretty sure the resin has cured after 19 years! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496545#496545 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:40 AM PST US From: Pete Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Post curing response Fwiw, It was my understanding that a post cure raised the Tg (glass transition temp, when it gets soft and expands) of the finished product. Cheers, Pete > On May 28, 2020, at 11:22 AM, flyingphil2 wrote: > > > Tony, just out of interest, when were the control surfaces laid up? > > I remember having a conversation with Andy Draper about this and I've just read the Gurit 'Guide to Composites'. As I understand it, post curing is only necessary if you are in a rush and want to crack on with the build. Otherwise you have to wait but the resin will eventually go off at room temperature and according to the Gurit document that may take 'several hours or even days at room temperature'. If your control surfaces were built more than a few weeks ago then I believe you can assume the resin is cured if it was mixed correctly. > > Have I understood that correctly? I have some control surfaces in my possession that were laid up in 2001. They've not been post cured but I'm pretty sure the resin has cured after 19 years! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496545#496545 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:13 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Post curing response WWVzIFBldGUsDQpUaGF0IGlzIHRoZSBpbnRlbnNpb24gb2YgcG9zdCBjdXJlIHRvIOKAnHN0aWZm ZW7igJ0gdGhlIGdsYXNzIHVwIHRvIHRoZSBwb3N0IGN1cmUgdGVtcC4NCkl0IGNhbiBpbiBzb21l IGVwb3h5L2dsYXNzIGluY3JlYXNlIHRoZSB0ZW5zaWxlIHN0cmVuZ3RoIGJ1dCBsaXR0bGUgZm9y IHRoZSBjb21wcmVzc2l2ZSBzdHJlbmd0aC4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KQnVkIFllcmx5DQoNCg0KU2Vu dCBmcm9tIE1haWw8aHR0cHM6Ly9nby5taWNyb3NvZnQuY29tL2Z3bGluay8/TGlua0lkPTU1MDk4 Nj4gZm9yIFdpbmRvd3MgMTANCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCkZy b206IG93bmVyLWV1cm9wYS1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIDxvd25lci1ldXJvcGEt bGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4gb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIFBldGUgPHBldGVyekB6dXRy YXNvZnQuY29tPg0KU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIE1heSAyOCwgMjAyMCAxMToyNDowMiBBTQ0KVG86 IGV1cm9wYS1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gPGV1cm9wYS1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpT dWJqZWN0OiBSZTogRXVyb3BhLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBQb3N0IGN1cmluZyByZXNwb25zZQ0KDQotLT4g RXVyb3BhLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6IFBldGUgPHBldGVyekB6dXRyYXNvZnQuY29t Pg0KDQpGd2l3LCBJdCB3YXMgbXkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZyB0aGF0IGEgcG9zdCBjdXJlIHJhaXNl ZCB0aGUgVGcgKGdsYXNzIHRyYW5zaXRpb24gdGVtcCwgd2hlbiBpdCDigJhnZXRzIHNvZnTigJkg YW5kIGV4cGFuZHMpIG9mIHRoZSBmaW5pc2hlZCBwcm9kdWN0Lg0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpQZXRlDQoN Cj4gT24gTWF5IDI4LCAyMDIwLCBhdCAxMToyMiBBTSwgZmx5aW5ncGhpbDIgPHBoaWxpcGp0aWxs ZXJAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4NCj4g77u/LS0+IEV1cm9wYS1MaXN0IG1lc3NhZ2UgcG9z dGVkIGJ5OiAiZmx5aW5ncGhpbDIiIDxwaGlsaXBqdGlsbGVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4NCj4NCj4gVG9u eSwganVzdCBvdXQgb2YgaW50ZXJlc3QsIHdoZW4gd2VyZSB0aGUgY29udHJvbCBzdXJmYWNlcyBs YWlkIHVwPw0KPg0KPiBJIHJlbWVtYmVyIGhhdmluZyBhIGNvbnZlcnNhdGlvbiB3aXRoIEFuZHkg RHJhcGVyIGFib3V0IHRoaXMgYW5kIEkndmUganVzdCByZWFkIHRoZSBHdXJpdCAnR3VpZGUgdG8g Q29tcG9zaXRlcycuICBBcyBJIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgaXQsIHBvc3QgY3VyaW5nIGlzIG9ubHkgbmVj ZXNzYXJ5IGlmIHlvdSBhcmUgaW4gYSBydXNoIGFuZCB3YW50IHRvIGNyYWNrIG9uIHdpdGggdGhl IGJ1aWxkLiAgT3RoZXJ3aXNlIHlvdSBoYXZlIHRvIHdhaXQgYnV0IHRoZSByZXNpbiB3aWxsIGV2 ZW50dWFsbHkgZ28gb2ZmIGF0IHJvb20gdGVtcGVyYXR1cmUgYW5kIGFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUg R3VyaXQgZG9jdW1lbnQgdGhhdCBtYXkgdGFrZSAnc2V2ZXJhbCBob3VycyBvciBldmVuIGRheXMg YXQgcm9vbSB0ZW1wZXJhdHVyZScuICBJZiB5b3VyIGNvbnRyb2wgc3VyZmFjZXMgd2VyZSBidWls dCBtb3JlIHRoYW4gYSBmZXcgd2Vla3MgYWdvIHRoZW4gSSBiZWxpZXZlIHlvdSBjYW4gYXNzdW1l IHRoZSByZXNpbiBpcyBjdXJlZCBpZiBpdCB3YXMgbWl4ZWQgY29ycmVjdGx5Lg0KPg0KPiBIYXZl IEkgdW5kZXJzdG9vZCB0aGF0IGNvcnJlY3RseT8gIEkgaGF2ZSBzb21lIGNvbnRyb2wgc3VyZmFj ZXMgaW4gbXkgcG9zc2Vzc2lvbiB0aGF0IHdlcmUgbGFpZCB1cCBpbiAyMDAxLiAgVGhleSd2ZSBu b3QgYmVlbiBwb3N0IGN1cmVkIGJ1dCBJJ20gcHJldHR5IHN1cmUgdGhlIHJlc2luIGhhcyBjdXJl ZCBhZnRlciAxOSB5ZWFycyENCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4gUmVhZCB0aGlzIHRvcGljIG9ubGluZSBo ZXJlOg0KPg0KPiBodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vdmlld3RvcGljLnBocD9wPTQ5 NjU0NSM0OTY1NDUNCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPSAgICAg ICAgICAtIFRoZSBFdXJvcGEtTGlzdCBFbWFpbCBGb3J1bSAtDQpfLT0gVXNlIHRoZSBNYXRyb25p Y3MgTGlzdCBGZWF0dXJlcyBOYXZpZ2F0b3IgdG8gYnJvd3NlDQpfLT0gdGhlIG1hbnkgTGlzdCB1 dGlsaXRpZXMgc3VjaCBhcyBMaXN0IFVuL1N1YnNjcmlwdGlvbiwNCl8tPSBBcmNoaXZlIFNlYXJj aCAmIERvd25sb2FkLCA3LURheSBCcm93c2UsIENoYXQsIEZBUSwNCl8tPSBQaG90b3NoYXJlLCBh bmQgbXVjaCBtdWNoIG1vcmU6DQpfLT0NCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5j b20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP0V1cm9wYS1MaXN0DQpfLT0NCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAt IE1BVFJPTklDUyBXRUIgRk9SVU1TIC0NCl8tPSBTYW1lIGdyZWF0IGNvbnRlbnQgYWxzbyBhdmFp bGFibGUgdmlhIHRoZSBXZWIgRm9ydW1zIQ0KXy09DQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5t YXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpfLT0NCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTkVXIE1BVFJPTklD UyBMSVNUIFdJS0kgLQ0KXy09IEFkZCBzb21lIGluZm8gdG8gdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBFbWFpbCBM aXN0IFdpa2khDQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3dpa2kubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KXy09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8t PSAgICAgICAgICAgICAtIExpc3QgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlIC0NCl8tPSAgVGhhbmsg eW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdlbmVyb3VzIHN1cHBvcnQhDQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAtTWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uDQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5t YXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:20:16 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Post curing response From: "flyingphil2" Ah! So does it mean that the 'Tg' is essentially room temperature unless you post cure it and raise it to a higher figure? Does that also mean that unused control surfaces that are 19 years old should still be post cured then? How many builders did this? There's no mention of post curing in the build handbook is there? Thanks, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496553#496553 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:29 PM PST US From: Pete Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Post curing response No, tg is in the lower hundreds from a room temp cure typically. Post curing typically raises it some 10s of degrees. So its not mandatory, but does help somewhat in hot climates. Best to reference the epoxy spec sheets for specifics. Cheers, Pete > On May 28, 2020, at 5:30 PM, flyingphil2 wrote: > > > Ah! > So does it mean that the 'Tg' is essentially room temperature unless you post cure it and raise it to a higher figure? > > Does that also mean that unused control surfaces that are 19 years old should still be post cured then? > > How many builders did this? There's no mention of post curing in the build handbook is there? > > Thanks, > Phil > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496553#496553 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:24 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Post curing response UGV0ZSwNCk9uZSBtb3JlIHRoaW5nLiAgU29ycnksIEnigJltIG91dCBpbiB0aGUgZmllbGQgYW5k IHRoYXQgYW5zd2VyIHdhcyB0b28gc2hvcnQuDQoNCkFtcHJlZyAyMCBzZXJpZXMgYWxzbyBoYXMg YSBoYXJkIHRpbWUgZnVsbHkgY3VyaW5nIGZ1bGx5IHdpdGhvdXQgaGVhdC4gIElmIG5vdCBicm91 Z2h0IHVwIHRvIGl0cyBjdXJlIHRlbXAgaXQgZG9lcyBub3QgY29tZSB1cCB0byBpdHMgZGVzaWdu IHN0cmVuZ3RoLiAgU28gYW4gZXBveHkgY3VyZWQgYmVsb3cgaXRzIGRlc2lnbiBjdXJlIHRlbXAg d2lsbCBjdXJlIHZlcnkgc2xvd2x5IGFuZCBvdmVyIHRpbWUgd2lsbCBjdXJlLCBidXQgaWYgdGhl IGNvbXBvbmVudCBpcyBwdXQgaW50byBzdG9yYWdlIG9yIHN0cmVzc2VkIG9yIHdvcnNlIHlldCBw dXQgaW50byBzZXJ2aWNlIGJlZm9yZSBmdWxseSBjdXJlZCBpdCB3aWxsIGRlZmxlY3QgdW5kZXIg 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https://www.ptm-w.com/aeropoxy/AEROPOXY%20Product%20Bulletins/AEROPOXY%20PR2032%20Bulletin%20w-4%20Hardeners%2024Jun08.pdf Ron P. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496562#496562 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.