Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:14 AM - Unimproved field flying with the Europa (Jon Thayer)
2. 08:18 AM - IFR certification (Jeff B)
3. 08:38 AM - Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa (Steve Ivell)
4. 09:01 AM - Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa (Alan Burrill)
5. 09:08 AM - Re: Post curing wings with weight on spar when layed flat. (Kevin)
6. 09:17 AM - Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa (Europa48)
7. 09:19 AM - Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa (Pete)
8. 09:20 AM - Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa (Europa48)
9. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and alt swit (William Daniell)
10. 03:32 PM - Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa (Steve Ivell)
11. 04:52 PM - Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa (Peter Zutrauen)
12. 09:41 PM - Throttle cables with solid inner (piano wire) (Kingsley Hurst)
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Subject: | Unimproved field flying with the Europa |
Just curious to get some real data on unimproved field access and=C2- fly
ing in the Europa.=C2- How well does the Tri-gear handle the landings and
takeoffs.=C2- I've been told the mono is the way to go, but can be a bit
finicky during landing and takeoffs on hard pavement not to mention the re
al world double insurance costs... Thanks for the responses.Regards,Jon
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Subject: | IFR certification |
Good morning all,
I'm wondering if someone out there has any information on certifying the
Europa for IFR flight (in the USA). Is there a statement in the
operating limitations that might mention this? I've a person interested
in my bird who is asking about it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You,
--
Jeff
Message 3
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Subject: | Unimproved field flying with the Europa |
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Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa |
I fly a tri-gear from a 500 m grass strip, not the smoothest, and it handles
well.
There are those who prefer the Mono, and those the Tri-gear.
Alan Burrill
G-OBJT
Sent from my iPad
> On 10 Jun 2020, at 16:41, Steve Ivell <SteveIvell@pestproof.co.uk> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Hi Jon
>
> Those with a mono will tell you they are great (and I know they are a bit f
aster) but to my mind they are the worst of all types. Not a taildragger and
not the equivalent to a glider because there is a big prop at the front wai
ting to be pranged. I have flown in one as a passenger and the little outrig
ger wheels make a racket on hard surfaces when taxying.
>
> My old instructor always responded when he was asked about taildragger ver
sus nosewheel.=9Dhow many modern aircraft don=99
t have nosewheel configuration=9D? I=99m sure you can answer tha
t for yourself.
>
> I=99ll now prepare to be shot down in flames by the mono lovers!! Lo
l
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Steve Ivell
> E-mail: steveivell@pestproof.co.uk
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com> On Behalf Of Jon Thayer
> Sent: 10 June 2020 12:12
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Unimproved field flying with the Europa
>
> Just curious to get some real data on unimproved field access and flying i
n the Europa. How well does the Tri-gear handle the landings and takeoffs.
I've been told the mono is the way to go, but can be a bit finicky during l
anding and takeoffs on hard pavement not to mention the real world double in
surance costs... Thanks for the responses.
> Regards,
> Jon
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Post curing wings with weight on spar when layed flat. |
Tony ,
Yes there is most definitely risk .
Support to avoid localised pressure and deformation.
Know the post hardening schedule for the curing of resin used.
Defer to Europa max temperature prescribed by them .. do not go higher or factory
made sections are risked.
Ramp up ramp down hold at prescribed temperature/ time.
Thermostatically control your oven ...test run it empty before risking parts.
Flight control surfaces have specific twist that must be supported and shape maintained
.
Parts may be very close to plastic during the process ...a data logger will show
deviation.. Im sure fish tank alarm or similar alert is not beyond you.
Search on your resin supplier for ramp rates ..heinkel ?
Kevin .
Sent from my iPad
> On 9 Jun 2020, at 07:53, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gidday,
> I have a jig that supports my spars at 200 mm (8) from the closeout, and a rotisserie
fitting in the wingtips, orientated vertically, side by side. Im about
to build a box around them for post curing having done my flight controls in
my refrigerator panelled camping van. My question is, does anyone fear for my
spars with half of each wings load on them 90 degrees from their loaded orientation
when on the fuse? Thanks for opinions.
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Aussie.
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa |
jonthayer(at)sbcglobal.ne wrote:
> Just curious to get some real data on unimproved field access and flying in
the Europa. How well does the Tri-gear handle the landings and takeoffs. I've
been told the mono is the way to go, but can be a bit finicky during landing
and takeoffs on hard pavement not to mention the real world double insurance
costs... Thanks for the responses.
> Regards,
> Jon
Certainly a mono will handle rough fields better than a trigear. Like any aircraft
whether mono or trigear every aircraft rehires correct handling otherwise
it will bite you. The Cessna "Landamatic" that was advertised in the fifties was
just an adpersons slogan.
I pay around 740 for my insurance with a hull value of 50,000 which I think is
fair and not loaded because of the configuration. My three previous trigears were
all around the same cost to insure.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496743#496743
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa |
Fwiw, the air-tired roller blade wheels make the outriggers almost silent (a
nd likely reduce wear on the pivots etc).
Planes are made to fly, not drive around lol. Just fly it on the ground as w
ell as in the air and all is well. I prefer to extend my flying time, not m
inimize it lol. Besides, it=99s just way more fun.
Cheers,
Pete
> On Jun 10, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Steve Ivell <SteveIvell@pestproof.co.uk> wro
te:
>
> =EF=BB
> Hi Jon
>
> Those with a mono will tell you they are great (and I know they are a bit f
aster) but to my mind they are the worst of all types. Not a taildragger and
not the equivalent to a glider because there is a big prop at the front wai
ting to be pranged. I have flown in one as a passenger and the little outrig
ger wheels make a racket on hard surfaces when taxying.
>
> My old instructor always responded when he was asked about taildragger ver
sus nosewheel.=9Dhow many modern aircraft don=99
t have nosewheel configuration=9D? I=99m sure you can answer tha
t for yourself.
>
> I=99ll now prepare to be shot down in flames by the mono lovers!! Lo
l
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Steve Ivell
> E-mail: steveivell@pestproof.co.uk
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com> On Behalf Of Jon Thayer
> Sent: 10 June 2020 12:12
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Unimproved field flying with the Europa
>
> Just curious to get some real data on unimproved field access and flying i
n the Europa. How well does the Tri-gear handle the landings and takeoffs.
I've been told the mono is the way to go, but can be a bit finicky during l
anding and takeoffs on hard pavement not to mention the real world double in
surance costs... Thanks for the responses.
> Regards,
> Jon
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa |
[quote="SteveIvell(at)pestproof.c"]Hi Jon
Those with a mono will tell you they are great (and I know they are a bit faster)
but to my mind they are the worst of all types. Not a taildragger and not the
equivalent to a glider because there is a big prop at the front waiting to
be pranged. I have flown in one as a passenger and the little outrigger wheels
make a racket on hard surfaces when taxying.
My old instructor always responded when he was asked about taildragger versus nosewheel.how
many modern aircraft dont have nosewheel configuration? Im sure you
can answer that for yourself.
Ill now prepare to be shot down in flames by the mono lovers!! Lol
Kind Regards
Steve, why do you find it necessary to knock the mono aircraft? It would be just
as easy to say the same about the trigear variety. Each to their own and leave
it at that. There has been too much negative drivel directed at the mono most
of it unfounded by folk who haven't even flown one.
Your pestproof email address could do with shortening I think!!
:D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496744#496744
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Is there any reason to have a separate battery and |
alt swit
Well ...as a follow up to this I installed the three position switch OFF,
BAT and BAT-ALTas recommended in the Z16. Low and behold, the amp reading
issue seems to have gone away or at least before I was having about one
event per flight and since 3 p[ositioon switch installed no events per
flight.
Why would a three position switch be functionally any different from two
separate switches?
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:11 PM Gilles Thesee <gilles@elixir-aircraft.com>
wrote:
> Le 15/05/2020 =C3- 23:33, William Daniell a =C3=A9crit :
>
>
> Will,
>
> There is a law in physics measurements : the more parameters you measure,
> the more you scratch your head^^!
>
> That said, you wrote that your bus - or battery - voltage remained within
> the "green" limits during each of the events. So no reason to suspect the
> voltage regulator.
>
> The only item capable of supplying more than the 21 amps of the alternato
r
> is the battery, but while doing this its voltage would sag due to interna
l
> resistance (Cf Ohm's law for a generator). 70 amp is no trifle.
>
> So the main probabilty is an ammeter artefact. The best way to measure
> currents is with a Hall effect sensor, as the shunt may induce side effec
ts
> in your circuits with high currents.
>
> But first things first, without independent and reliable voltage and
> possibly current measurements or logging, no assumptions can be made.
>
>
> Concerning disconnecting the battery while running, not sure it would be
a
> safe thing to do, especially in flight :
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
> http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Unimproved field flying with the Europa |
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Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa |
That's all I generally fly off of and luv it :) The Europa is a packaging
efficiency masterpiece designed around that big fat sprung tire. It's like
landing on a pillow. There are many other purpose-built trigear designs.
On Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 6:48 PM Steve Ivell, <SteveIvell@pestproof.co.uk>
wrote:
> Hi Pete
>
>
> The roller blade wheels look like a real improvement and I agree that
> planes are for flying but some airfields have tarmac and concrete
> taxiway=99s.
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
>
> Steve Ivell
>
> Mob: 07971 128842
>
> E-mail: steveivell@pestproof.co.uk
>
>
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> *On Behalf Of *Pete
> *Sent:* 10 June 2020 17:17
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Unimproved field flying with the Europa
>
>
> Fwiw, the air-tired roller blade wheels make the outriggers almost silent
> (and likely reduce wear on the pivots etc).
>
>
> Planes are made to fly, not drive around lol. Just fly it on the ground
> as well as in the air and all is well. I prefer to extend my flying time
,
> not minimize it lol. Besides, it=99s just way more fun.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pete
>
>
> On Jun 10, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Steve Ivell <SteveIvell@pestproof.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
>
> Hi Jon
>
>
> Those with a mono will tell you they are great (and I know they are a bit
> faster) but to my mind they are the worst of all types. Not a taildragger
> and not the equivalent to a glider because there is a big prop at the fro
nt
> waiting to be pranged. I have flown in one as a passenger and the little
> outrigger wheels make a racket on hard surfaces when taxying.
>
>
> My old instructor always responded when he was asked about taildragger
> versus nosewheel.=9Dhow many modern aircraft don
=99t have nosewheel
> configuration=9D? I=99m sure you can answer that for yourself
.
>
>
> I=99ll now prepare to be shot down in flames by the mono lovers!! L
ol
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
>
> Steve Ivell
>
> E-mail: steveivell@pestproof.co.uk
>
>
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> *On Behalf Of *Jon Thayer
> *Sent:* 10 June 2020 12:12
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Europa-List: Unimproved field flying with the Europa
>
>
> Just curious to get some real data on unimproved field access and flying
> in the Europa. How well does the Tri-gear handle the landings and
> takeoffs. I've been told the mono is the way to go, but can be a bit
> finicky during landing and takeoffs on hard pavement not to mention the
> real world double insurance costs... Thanks for the responses.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon
>
>
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Subject: | Throttle cables with solid inner (piano wire) |
For those who have been there and done it . . . . . . Piano wire vs
stranded
* Did you replace the outer as well as the inner cables?
* What thickness is the required inner piano wire?
* Where do you obtain the piano wire?
* Did you use the existing fittings on the ends of the cables inside
the throttle box? if so, how did you do the change over from the
original stranded inner to the solid inner?
Any photos would be welcomed too please.
Thank you in anticipation
Kingsley in Oz
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