Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:26 AM - Re: Airbox for 912S (SwiftTG)
2. 05:25 AM - Re: Re: Airbox for 912S (Bud Yerly)
3. 06:32 AM - Re: Rear wing root socket problems (Bud Yerly)
4. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Airbox for 912S (Richard Churchill-Coleman)
5. 07:55 AM - 914 Float Bowl Issues ()
6. 08:11 AM - Re: Rear wing root socket problems (D McFadyean)
7. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Airbox for 912S (Ian Cook)
8. 08:23 AM - UK DOTH (D McFadyean)
9. 08:29 AM - Re: 914 Float Bowl Issues (William Daniell)
10. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Airbox for 912S (Alan Twigg)
11. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Airbox for 912S (Alan Twigg)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Airbox for 912S |
I just wanted to comment on a note in Buds reply regarding the "really cheap polyester
chop and glass bit from Europa". I do not know what part is being referred
to but nothing is now supplied from Europa in chop strand. As a relevant
example the Mod 42 airbox is manufactured from 92125 cloth.
--------
David Stanbridge
Europa Aircraft (2004) Limited
www.europa-aircraft.com
technical@europa-aircraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498165#498165
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| Subject: | Re: Airbox for 912S |
David,
And we thank you for the quality parts now manufactured.
There was a time in the early 2000s that even the gelcoat was flaking and c
racking terribly on all the accessory parts like speed kits and cowls.
Thanks again,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
From: SwiftTG<mailto:david.stanbridge@swifttg.com>
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 7:32 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Airbox for 912S
I just wanted to comment on a note in Buds reply regarding the "really chea
p polyester chop and glass bit from Europa". I do not know what part is bei
ng referred to but nothing is now supplied from Europa in chop strand. As a
relevant example the Mod 42 airbox is manufactured from 92125 cloth.
--------
David Stanbridge
Europa Aircraft (2004) Limited
www.europa-aircraft.com<http://www.europa-aircraft.com>
technical@europa-aircraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498165#498165
Message 3
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| Subject: | Rear wing root socket problems |
Sorry to hear of your issues.
The failure of the socket indicates the crash may have been more severe tha
n anticipated.
In all my years, I=92ve seen corrosion on older socket parts that were not
as well protected as the new bits are. I have never seen a failure in the
26A as this was a well engineered and tested part by Europa. If installed
backwards, this can happen.
Please contact Europa Aircraft because the W26 part assembly has not been a
n issue and replacement of the corroded items may be smart. This area is a
critical flight component and the annual inspection and repair may have mi
ssed this part may have been damaged or assembled incorrectly. If the sock
et inner W26B failed, was the interior tube and attachments properly instal
led, checked and inspected is the question.
Loctite is between the barrel and that thin rectangular piece you call it s
o they operate as a unit. The wing pin goes into the fully assembled socke
t and allows it to move up and down just a bit. If not Loctited the barrel
can rotate and make pin insertion more difficult. (Frankly, during wing i
nstall, simply note the orientation of the barrel is all that is needed.) N
ote that the assembly thin side goes on the fuselage side. Don=92t get tha
t backwards as it builds up stress and may be a part of the failure you see
.
As far as the structural strength, the yoke piece 26A and the barrel 26C ca
rry the load of the wing pulling forward under max G load. This barrel is
designed to move up and down.
As for the Rotax 914:
There is a long and boring troubleshooting guide on my website on keeping t
he 914 running true. The carbs are easily rebuilt with proper attention to
detail. I find the Rotax engine forum informational, but doesn=92t cover
in enough detail. I do find the videos provided by Rotax to be quite compl
ete. The paper I did covers various phases and expands troubleshooting. S
ee the techniques section for an updated version since published in the Eur
opa Club magazine.
Bud Yerly
www.customflightcreations.com
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
s 10
From: Erik Dahlb=E4ck<mailto:erik@erikdahlbeck.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 5:18 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Rear wing root socket problems
Hello,
First time posting here, hoping my attached photos are small enough, etc...
I'm trying to get Europa SE-XRX airworthy again after being grounded for
two years. At first due to some hard-to-diagnose carburettor problems.
914 float bowls, enough said... If interested, I have a post about it
over at Rotax-Owners:
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rot
ax-owner.com%2Fen%2F912-914-technical-questions%2F6881-914ul-carburettor-gr
emlins%3Fstart%3D15&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8482b0ef213641821e7208d852aa5b7
2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637350238926500351&sdata
=pMvGV5%2BI41Zjnn3nQnSV8Wo37dGxDwnn9%2Ff%2Bu5P7T%2F0%3D&reserved=0
PROBLEM NO 1
Anyway, after fixing the engine and while doing the annual together with
the previous owner/builder, it was discovered that the rear wing socket
housing, part W26B, starboard side, was cracked in two parts. Further
inspection showed that also the port side was cracked, albeit not having
split in two just yet. Please see attached photos.
I've got the spares from the manufacturer however, I'm curious if this
is a known problem? Any thoughts on what could be the cause? Anything
further to look out for?
My local mechanic seemed just as puzzled as I was when looking at how
thin this part is. I mean what is it, 2 mm?
One thing to consider: The aircraft was built as a monowheel but crashed
on takeoff during flight testing, making a hard landing and a ground
loop. The incident was traced to a construction error in the control
line attachment to the rudder, causing alterations in the design (some
of might be familiar with this). The aircraft was then repaired (by some
sailplane workshop that seemed to know what they were doing, I've seen
the photos at least). Among other things it got a new tail, a CS prop
and was rebuilt as a trigear. Might this new discovery simply be residue
of that old incident?
Also, the builder's manual states that the W26B and C parts should be
loctited together. However, there was no trace of this. I'm not sure if
that instruction has been there since the beginning or if it could be a
later revision? However, I sort of have my doubts as to some loctite
being able to strenghten this construction enough to not break from
whatever broke this...?
Finally, any thoughts on how to reassemble these parts? Where does the
Loctite go? Just on the barrel and make sure the holes align before i
dries? How to you avoid getting loctite on the surfaces between the
barrel and the socket body (W26A)?
PROBLEM NO 2
Due to various reasons, I only got around to cleaning the grease off the
rear socket assemblies, in preparation for reassembly, but doing the
loctite-work in a cold hangar, etc, and also enlisting the help of the
very busy local mechanic, was more than I could get done before last winter
.
Now, on inspection, the W26A socket bodies show signs of corrosion.
Please see the other attached photos. Anyone have an opinion on just how
bad this is? Do they also need changing? And does that require
composite-work? I've been looking through the builder's manual but I'm
afraid I'm not quite up to understanding all of it.
Any thoughts on both of the above issues would be greatly appreciated!
Sincerely,
Erik Gunneland Dahlb=E4ck
Link=F6ping, Sweden
Europa SE-XRX
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Airbox for 912S |
Bud
Not just the accessories - I have a fuselage top with flaking =98gelco
at=99 which I am still trying to resolve.
Richard C-C
Sent from my iPad
> On 7 Sep 2020, at 13:30, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> David,
> And we thank you for the quality parts now manufactured.
> There was a time in the early 2000s that even the gelcoat was flaking and c
racking terribly on all the accessory parts like speed kits and cowls.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Bud Yerly
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: SwiftTG
> Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 7:32 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Airbox for 912S
>
>
>
> I just wanted to comment on a note in Buds reply regarding the "really che
ap polyester chop and glass bit from Europa". I do not know what part is bei
ng referred to but nothing is now supplied from Europa in chop strand. As a r
elevant example the Mod 42 airbox is manufactured from 92125 cloth.
>
> --------
> David Stanbridge
>
> Europa Aircraft (2004) Limited
> www.europa-aircraft.com
>
> technical@europa-aircraft.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498165#498165
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> st Email Forum -
> pa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> ==========
> p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> ums.matronics.com
> ==========
> p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> matronics.com
> ==========
> p; - List Contribution Web Site -
> p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | 914 Float Bowl Issues |
Hello Erik,
I just read your post on the Rotax-Owners site. The issue you described has
long plagued many 914 owners. Jim Butcher and I recently published an
article in the Europa Flyer addressing this issue (and others) as well as a
fix. If you aren't a member you might consider joining. Good information
specific to the Europa is disseminated. As a result of the COVID-19 the
Europa Club held its annual membership meeting virtually. I must say, using
ZOOM opened up the audience internationally with many USA builders able to
join, myself included.
Anyway, specific to the loose float bowl, I modified the float bowl to
accept the 912 spring clamp which provides the requisite pressure on the
gasket as it ages and shrinks. The bolt is still utilized, however, the
clamping pressure is provided by the spring clip. Pretty straight forward
modification requiring that the cast nub on the bottom of the float bowl,
adjacent to the bolt hole, be removed. This allows the spring clip to fully
seat. I used a Dremel, although, a file will do the trick.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Kind regards,
Erich
N28ET Classic Mono 914
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Rear wing root socket problems |
The (substantial) wear marks on W26A show that is was installed the correc
t way around.
The wear mark on the inside vertical surface of W26 just above the central
bolt indicate that at some point W26A was leaning heavily on W26 in a 'nega
tive g' direction of loading, which may explain how it then broke i.e. the
weight of the wing transmitted in bending through the lift pin caused W26A
to lever against W26.
That wouldn't occur during a normal flight maneuver and when properly rigge
d. Perhaps the downward leverage occurred during derigging after removing t
he spar pins, and assuming the spar cups were misplaced.
I'd check the lift pins for bending too and that these are not angled (or b
ent) above the centreline of the inboard spar projections (and/or that W26
has been set vertically).
Duncan Mcf.
> On 07 September 2020 at 14:31 Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sorry to hear of your issues.
>
>
>
> The failure of the socket indicates the crash may have been more seve
re than anticipated.
>
> In all my years, I=99ve seen corrosion on older socket parts th
at were not as well protected as the new bits are. I have never seen a fai
lure in the 26A as this was a well engineered and tested part by Europa. I
f installed backwards, this can happen.
>
>
>
> Please contact Europa Aircraft because the W26 part assembly has not
been an issue and replacement of the corroded items may be smart. This are
a is a critical flight component and the annual inspection and repair may h
ave missed this part may have been damaged or assembled incorrectly. If th
e socket inner W26B failed, was the interior tube and attachments properly
installed, checked and inspected is the question.
>
>
>
> Loctite is between the barrel and that thin rectangular piece you cal
l it so they operate as a unit. The wing pin goes into the fully assembled
socket and allows it to move up and down just a bit. If not Loctited the
barrel can rotate and make pin insertion more difficult. (Frankly, during
wing install, simply note the orientation of the barrel is all that is need
ed.) Note that the assembly thin side goes on the fuselage side. Don
=99t get that backwards as it builds up stress and may be a part of the fai
lure you see.
>
>
>
> As far as the structural strength, the yoke piece 26A and the barrel
26C carry the load of the wing pulling forward under max G load. This barr
el is designed to move up and down.
>
>
>
> As for the Rotax 914:
>
> There is a long and boring troubleshooting guide on my website on kee
ping the 914 running true. The carbs are easily rebuilt with proper attent
ion to detail. I find the Rotax engine forum informational, but doesn
=99t cover in enough detail. I do find the videos provided by Rotax to
be quite complete. The paper I did covers various phases and expands troub
leshooting. See the techniques section for an updated version since publis
hed in the Europa Club magazine.
>
>
>
> Bud Yerly
>
> www.customflightcreations.com
>
> Sent from Mail https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986 for W
indows 10
>
>
>
> From: Erik Dahlb=C3=A4ck mailto:erik@erikdahlbeck.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 5:18 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com mailto:europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Rear wing root socket problems
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> First time posting here, hoping my attached photos are small enough,
etc...
>
> I'm trying to get Europa SE-XRX airworthy again after being grounded
for
> two years. At first due to some hard-to-diagnose carburettor problems
.
> 914 float bowls, enough said... If interested, I have a post about it
> over at Rotax-Owners:
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw
ww.rotax-owner.com%2Fen%2F912-914-technical-questions%2F6881-914ul-carburet
tor-gremlins%3Fstart%3D15&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8482b0ef213641821e7208d85
2aa5b72%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637350238926500351&
;sdata=pMvGV5%2BI41Zjnn3nQnSV8Wo37dGxDwnn9%2Ff%2Bu5P7T%2F0%3D&reserve
d=0
>
>
> PROBLEM NO 1
>
> Anyway, after fixing the engine and while doing the annual together w
ith
> the previous owner/builder, it was discovered that the rear wing sock
et
> housing, part W26B, starboard side, was cracked in two parts. Further
> inspection showed that also the port side was cracked, albeit not hav
ing
> split in two just yet. Please see attached photos.
>
> I've got the spares from the manufacturer however, I'm curious if thi
s
> is a known problem? Any thoughts on what could be the cause? Anything
> further to look out for?
>
> My local mechanic seemed just as puzzled as I was when looking at how
> thin this part is. I mean what is it, 2 mm?
>
> One thing to consider: The aircraft was built as a monowheel but cras
hed
> on takeoff during flight testing, making a hard landing and a ground
> loop. The incident was traced to a construction error in the control
> line attachment to the rudder, causing alterations in the design (som
e
> of might be familiar with this). The aircraft was then repaired (by s
ome
> sailplane workshop that seemed to know what they were doing, I've see
n
> the photos at least). Among other things it got a new tail, a CS prop
> and was rebuilt as a trigear. Might this new discovery simply be resi
due
> of that old incident?
>
> Also, the builder's manual states that the W26B and C parts should be
> loctited together. However, there was no trace of this. I'm not sure
if
> that instruction has been there since the beginning or if it could be
a
> later revision? However, I sort of have my doubts as to some loctite
> being able to strenghten this construction enough to not break from
> whatever broke this...?
>
> Finally, any thoughts on how to reassemble these parts? Where does th
e
> Loctite go? Just on the barrel and make sure the holes align before i
> dries? How to you avoid getting loctite on the surfaces between the
> barrel and the socket body (W26A)?
>
>
> PROBLEM NO 2
>
> Due to various reasons, I only got around to cleaning the grease off
the
> rear socket assemblies, in preparation for reassembly, but doing the
> loctite-work in a cold hangar, etc, and also enlisting the help of th
e
> very busy local mechanic, was more than I could get done before last
winter.
>
> Now, on inspection, the W26A socket bodies show signs of corrosion.
> Please see the other attached photos. Anyone have an opinion on just
how
> bad this is? Do they also need changing? And does that require
> composite-work? I've been looking through the builder's manual but I'
m
> afraid I'm not quite up to understanding all of it.
>
>
> Any thoughts on both of the above issues would be greatly appreciated
!
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Erik Gunneland Dahlb=C3=A4ck
> Link=C3=B6ping, Sweden
> Europa SE-XRX
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Airbox for 912S |
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Message 8
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Anyone up for a DOTH in the southern half (England/Wales) of the UK this week?
Wednesday or Thursday, venue TBA but many places now open. Early mist/fog could
be an issue in some areas (Severn Valley for example) by then.
Duncan McF.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Float Bowl Issues |
I have a turbo 912 with the stock spring clips on the float bowl. The key
is to use nitrile or cork float bowl gaskets.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 10:58 AM <erichdtrombley@juno.com> wrote:
> Hello Erik,
>
>
> I just read your post on the Rotax-Owners site. The issue you described
> has long plagued many 914 owners. Jim Butcher and I recently published a
n
> article in the Europa Flyer addressing this issue (and others) as well as
a
> fix. If you aren=99t a member you might consider joining. Good in
formation
> specific to the Europa is disseminated. As a result of the COVID-19 the
> Europa Club held its annual membership meeting virtually. I must say,
> using ZOOM opened up the audience internationally with many USA builders
> able to join, myself included.
>
>
> Anyway, specific to the loose float bowl, I modified the float bowl to
> accept the 912 spring clamp which provides the requisite pressure on the
> gasket as it ages and shrinks. The bolt is still utilized, however, the
> clamping pressure is provided by the spring clip. Pretty straight forwar
d
> modification requiring that the cast nub on the bottom of the float bowl,
> adjacent to the bolt hole, be removed. This allows the spring clip to
> fully seat. I used a Dremel, although, a file will do the trick.
>
>
> Let me know if you have any questions.
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Erich
>
> N28ET Classic Mono 914
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Airbox for 912S |
Not flown yet but complete and paperwork at the LAA actually being worked ri
ght now.
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
> On 7 Sep 2020, at 16:14, Ian Cook <IanCook_1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB Richard how is the building going. With Bicester closing down I d
on=99t Alan Twigg has still not flown his MG yet. I now have about 70H
rs on mine,
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On 7 Sep 2020, at 15:38, Richard Churchill-Coleman <richard.churchill-co
leman@sky.com> wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BB Bud
>>
>> Not just the accessories - I have a fuselage top with flaking =98ge
lcoat=99 which I am still trying to resolve.
>>
>> Richard C-C
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On 7 Sep 2020, at 13:30, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> =EF=BB
>>> David,
>>> And we thank you for the quality parts now manufactured.
>>> There was a time in the early 2000s that even the gelcoat was flaking an
d cracking terribly on all the accessory parts like speed kits and cowls.
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>>
>>> Bud Yerly
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>
>>> From: SwiftTG
>>> Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 7:32 AM
>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Airbox for 912S
>>>
om>
>>>
>>> I just wanted to comment on a note in Buds reply regarding the "really c
heap polyester chop and glass bit from Europa". I do not know what part is b
eing referred to but nothing is now supplied from Europa in chop strand. As a
relevant example the Mod 42 airbox is manufactured from 92125 cloth.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> David Stanbridge
>>>
>>> Europa Aircraft (2004) Limited
>>> www.europa-aircraft.com
>>>
>>> technical@europa-aircraft.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498165#498165
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> st Email Forum -
>>> pa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>>> ==========
>>> p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>> ums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>> matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> p; - List Contribution Web Site -
>>> p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Airbox for 912S |
Ian, only the gliding club has closed. 6 gliders and a tug remain privately.
GA still active and busier than before. Visitors welcome.
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
> On 7 Sep 2020, at 17:01, Alan Twigg <alan.twigg775@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BBNot flown yet but complete and paperwork at the LAA actually bein
g worked right now.
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On 7 Sep 2020, at 16:14, Ian Cook <IanCook_1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BB Richard how is the building going. With Bicester closing down I
don=99t Alan Twigg has still not flown his MG yet. I now have about 7
0Hrs on mine,
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 7 Sep 2020, at 15:38, Richard Churchill-Coleman <richard.churchill-co
leman@sky.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> =EF=BB Bud
>>>
>>> Not just the accessories - I have a fuselage top with flaking =98g
elcoat=99 which I am still trying to resolve.
>>>
>>> Richard C-C
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On 7 Sep 2020, at 13:30, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> =EF=BB
>>>> David,
>>>> And we thank you for the quality parts now manufactured.
>>>> There was a time in the early 2000s that even the gelcoat was flaking a
nd cracking terribly on all the accessory parts like speed kits and cowls.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again,
>>>>
>>>> Bud Yerly
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>
>>>> From: SwiftTG
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 7:32 AM
>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Airbox for 912S
>>>>
com>
>>>>
>>>> I just wanted to comment on a note in Buds reply regarding the "really c
heap polyester chop and glass bit from Europa". I do not know what part is b
eing referred to but nothing is now supplied from Europa in chop strand. As a
relevant example the Mod 42 airbox is manufactured from 92125 cloth.
>>>>
>>>> --------
>>>> David Stanbridge
>>>>
>>>> Europa Aircraft (2004) Limited
>>>> www.europa-aircraft.com
>>>>
>>>> technical@europa-aircraft.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498165#498165
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ==========
>>>> st Email Forum -
>>>> pa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>>>> ==========
>>>> p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>>> ums.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>>> matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> p; - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>> p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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