Europa-List Digest Archive

Sun 10/04/20


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:42 AM - Re: W20 Bracket spec (Brian Phillips)
     2. 01:03 PM - Re: W20 Bracket spec (budyerly@msn.com)
     3. 02:15 PM - Re: How much to sand for filler (budyerly@msn.com)
     4. 02:19 PM - Stabilator play (=?UTF-8?Q?Erik_Dahlb=c3=a4ck?=)
     5. 04:35 PM - Re: Europa W20 Bracket spec (Brian Phillips)
     6. 04:45 PM - Re: Stabilator play (Pete)
     7. 06:52 PM - Re: Stabilator play (budyerly@msn.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:42:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: W20 Bracket spec
    From: Brian Phillips <barp99@gmail.com>
    William, I think its just the photo, I put a rule on the lower surface and checked the intersection, its hard to tell for sure but its very close to being laminar. Cheers, Brian. On 4/10/2020 12:36 pm, William Daniell wrote: > Brian > It looks to me as thought the lower surface of the flap is not aligned > with the lower surface of the wing...or is it just how it looks in the > photo? > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 19:49 Brian Phillips <barp99@gmail.com > <mailto:barp99@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > I am currently attaching the port flap to the wing on my trigear, I > find, for whatever reason, that the W20 bracket is too short by 12mm > when the flap is in its correct position. Rather than live with this > mismatch at the bolted joint, I will make up a new longer W20 > bracket. > Does anyone know what grade and temper these aluminium brackets > are made > from? > > Brian > Sydney, Aus. >


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:03:29 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: W20 Bracket spec
    From: "budyerly@msn.com" <budyerly@msn.com>
    Brian, You can never go wrong with 6061-T6 1/8 inch sheet. The advice given is quite good. 1. Be sure to make the flap fit on the left and right absolutely identical in gap between flap LE and closeout, dead level with the bottom of the wing. Make the line through the inboard and outboard flap eyes even and at the right point using the template. Middle flap bracket is set with string. IF THE FLAP W19 OR 20 IS TOO SHORT: Lay out your template and assure the wing flap is positioned per the manual using the incidence board and dead level with the bottom of the wing then clamp your W19/20 brackets. If too short, simply draw out a new one out of carboard for the outer shape and make another out of 1/8 6061-T6 After fab is complete, clamp in place and check operation. If off laterally due to a FL1 or 2 misalignment , you may either bend the W19/20 or use a spacer to displace the bracket to allow smooth operation. 2. I don't set my flap pins exactly like the manual. I use a compass (actually a 3/4 inch thick stick and pin/pen). Each flap drive pin needs to be set the same. I find that the swing of the flap tube and hinges is slightly off as indicated in the manual and by using a large "compass" I can set each flap pin so it is exactly in line with the hinges. It is not a big deal, but for those of you always having to lift or pull down on a flap to get the flap engaged with the wing pins in alignment, that is your problem or at least part of it. I've attached a picture for my shop technique on the compass concept. Best Regards, Bud Yerly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498661#498661 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/flap_pin_setting_131.png


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:15:48 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: How much to sand for filler
    From: "budyerly@msn.com" <budyerly@msn.com>
    Excellent discussion. Either building new or fabricating a new do-dad for the plane I do the following: After layup, I fill the surface with microballoons to fill the gaps. This leaves a filled weave (sort of) that can be easily scuffed for filler. Clean and wipe with acetone to get your dust and paw prints off. If not, I use 80-150 grit for a light scratch then use red or green Scotch-Brite to rough up the dimples in the surface to a sort of dull state. Clean. If using expand cell as a filler, I use a slightly wet fill then even out to a very thin layer. The extra epoxy is heavy but it sticks for sure. Allow to cure and sand with 80-150 grit and my DA sander to get back to near the glass. Refill one more time with a drier filler. The vibration of the pneumatic DA is higher than a hand sand, but it is faster and will tell you if you have an area that is not sticking well as you feel it and see the dry or not attached area to crumble away. At Scaled Composites in the dry heat of the dessert, once cleaned up, one worker would lay on a thin clear epoxy coat and allow it to tack, then put on their filler which was normally micro and epoxy as a paste (witch is really itchy and irritating when sanding) but I used Poly-Fiber SuperFil which is expensive, but nice to use and easy on the lungs and eyes. The reason the worker used for the clear epoxy was assured bonding in a dusty environment of the micro and the sticky epoxy allowed him to use a drier filler and get a smooth pull of the filler to a consistent, flat spread. Ideas are like butt holes, everybody's got one. That's mine. I did an article some time ago on finishing and painting, it is on my website https://www.customflightcreations.com. Bud Yerly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498662#498662


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:19:51 PM PST US
    From: =?UTF-8?Q?Erik_Dahlb=c3=a4ck?= <erik@erikdahlbeck.com>
    Subject: Stabilator play
    Hello again, Me and our local mechanic are still working on getting SE-XRX airworthy. During the process, I've spent some time reading up on modifications and service bulletins. After reading about the mod 73 and SB-15 issues I went to the hangar and found that the port side stabilator sure could be moved a little bit after the counterweight hit its stop. The starboard one is solid though. I put a short video of it on Youtube: https://youtu.be/_LzkvIJ9T5o The video shows the stabilator being held so that the couterweight is against the stop and then moving slightly when more force is applied. When measured using a metal measuring tape from the floor up to the trailing edge of the stabilator, the movement is somewhere around 6-8 mm, which is at least less than the 0.5 inch limit set forth by the PFA FSB006. Still a bit worrying though. SB-15 (the application of loctite) is supposed to have been done according to the builder and it also looks like there is loctite along the edges of the parts that should have it. Please see the attached photo taken through an inspection port, showing the stabilator drive train assembly. At least I suspect that the green-ish stuff around the edge of the TP 12 drive plate cylinder, sticking out of the TP 10 bushing, as well as what (from this angle) is visible on the left side of the control horn tube, should be the loctite. Also, what puzzles us is that we cannot actually see anything moving when looking through the inspection port when the stabilator is moved, as in the video. We even taped a marker pen onto a stick to let us draw, well, not a straight line, but at least some marks for visual reference on the parts (to the right in the image, which was taken before the drawing). Still, when externally looking down between the fuselage and the stabilator, onto what should be the TP 12 drive plate cylinder (if I've understood the design correctly), it looks like that "axis" is moving along with the stabilator. So we kind of fail to understand where this movement is happening. Weird...? Any thought on this would be greatly appreciated. / Erik


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:35:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Europa W20 Bracket spec
    From: Brian Phillips <barp99@gmail.com>
    Mike, you were absolutely right! Well spotted. I must have got the W19 & 20 brackets mixed up during alodyning, and have two W19 brackets on the other wing and two on this one. I feel like such a goose. Hopefully I can swap it over without any further issues. Sure am glad for all the folk that offered help on this list, invaluable. Cheers, Brian. On 4/10/2020 3:57 am, m.j.gregory@talk21.com wrote: > > Brian, > > From your photograph, it looks as though your short bracket is at > the root end of the flap, where the W19 bracket should be fitted. The > W20 bracket should go in the centre of the flap with a W21 pair at the > outboard end. > > Is it possible that you have selected both W20 brackets for this wing > and have both W19 brackets for the other wing, instead of a W19 and a > W20 per wing? This would explain why things do not align. > > Best regards, > > /Mike/ > > Dr Mike Gregory > > +44 1480 451655 > > +44 7885 355765 > > Brian Phillips <barp99@gmail.com> > > To: europa-list@matronics.com; > > 02/10/20 00:56 > > 11 > > 61.4 KB > > DSCN8674.jpg <https://email.bt.com/mail/index-rui.jsp?v=2.17.4> > > Save all as ZIP<https://email.bt.com/mail/index-rui.jsp?v=2.17.4> > > > I am currently attaching the port flap to the wing on my trigear, I > find, for whatever reason, that the W20 bracket is too short by 12mm > when the flap is in its correct position. Rather than live with this > mismatch at the bolted joint, I will make up a new longer W20 bracket. > Does anyone know what grade and temper these aluminium brackets are > made from? > > Brian > Sydney, Aus. >


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:45:49 PM PST US
    From: Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
    Subject: Re: Stabilator play
    Looks like the pins have been replaced by bolts? Likely in a vain attempt to remove play (not the way to do it)? Pete C-gnpz > On Oct 4, 2020, at 5:33 PM, Erik Dahlbck <erik@erikdahlbeck.com> wrote: > > Hello again, > > Me and our local mechanic are still working on getting SE-XRX airworthy. > > During the process, I've spent some time reading up on modifications and service bulletins. After reading about the mod 73 and SB-15 issues I went to the hangar and found that the port side stabilator sure could be moved a little bit after the counterweight hit its stop. The starboard one is solid though. > > I put a short video of it on Youtube: > > https://youtu.be/_LzkvIJ9T5o > > The video shows the stabilator being held so that the couterweight is against the stop and then moving slightly when more force is applied. > > When measured using a metal measuring tape from the floor up to the trailing edge of the stabilator, the movement is somewhere around 6-8 mm, which is at least less than the 0.5 inch limit set forth by the PFA FSB006. Still a bit worrying though. > > SB-15 (the application of loctite) is supposed to have been done according to the builder and it also looks like there is loctite along the edges of the parts that should have it. Please see the attached photo taken through an inspection port, showing the stabilator drive train assembly. At least I suspect that the green-ish stuff around the edge of the TP 12 drive plate cylinder, sticking out of the TP 10 bushing, as well as what (from this angle) is visible on the left side of the control horn tube, should be the loctite. > > Also, what puzzles us is that we cannot actually see anything moving when looking through the inspection port when the stabilator is moved, as in the video. We even taped a marker pen onto a stick to let us draw, well, not a straight line, but at least some marks for visual reference on the parts (to the right in the image, which was taken before the drawing). Still, when externally looking down between the fuselage and the stabilator, onto what should be the TP 12 drive plate cylinder (if I've understood the design correctly), it looks like that "axis" is moving along with the stabilator. So we kind of fail to understand where this movement is happening. Weird...? > > Any thought on this would be greatly appreciated. > > > / Erik > > > <DSC_1743.jpg>


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:52:47 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Stabilator play
    From: "budyerly@msn.com" <budyerly@msn.com>
    Pete, Please do not allow any play between the two stabilators. I personally remove my torque tube and machine replacement zero clearance pins that require freezing in dry ice and insertion when in place. They fit very tight, but require machining, exact measurement, and a generous access hole to work in. But it has held for 14 years. Because you are most likely in Europe (SE-xxx) simply go on the Europa Club website and have your mechanic look to the method he prefers for stabilator pin replacement. This site is a wealth of information and as an owner operator as well as maintainer, this is an excellent place to start to fix the woes of the aging aircraft, speed construction, and allow you to create a truly custom aircraft you can have confidence in. I personally like 11969 alternate modification. Even when confronted with the small access hole, it is possible to do. I built a similar fix in the US and found the method was acceptable, but I do prefer to do stab work on the bench rather than in the aircraft. Reason is, much measuring and sizing of the hole should be done to allow the bolt to pin as well as clamp. Fix it right and have a trouble free aircraft. Best Regards, Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations, Inc. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498674#498674




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