---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/15/20: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:28 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (John Wighton) 2. 01:31 AM - Re: Lighter tailwheel (John Wighton) 3. 01:56 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (clivesutton) 4. 03:36 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (Remi Guerner) 5. 03:42 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (clivesutton) 6. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Lighter tailwheel (Richard Scanlan) 7. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (D McFadyean) 8. 09:53 AM - Classic (MikeP) 9. 10:19 AM - Re: Classic (david park) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:49 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying From: "John Wighton" Pete, The article is 10 years old -a period which represents approximately 1/12 (or 8% ish) since Wright Bros made their mark. Much can happen in a very short time, primarily due to the predictive tools we (as aeronautical engineers) have at our disposal. Jim's excellent article does, however, still contain good information. The key elements being that there is a significant factor between Vne and Vd (typically 1.3-1.4), and that flutter should not occur before 1.2Vd. Hence no sane pilot should get anywhere near. But that also assumes an aircraft is in tip-top condition. A simple route is to always fly using IAS. Ensure you have calibrated your ASI, hence you are effectively flying CAS. This actually ignites a pet subject of mine - the LAA permit renewal flight test, which requires us all to be Test Pilots for the day - reaching Vne. A little bit like cycling toward the edge of Beachy Head but (skillfully) avoiding plummeting over the edge. We congratulate ourselves we are still alive - and then have to go and do it again next year.......... -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498828#498828 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:09 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lighter tailwheel From: "John Wighton" Not cheap by any means but a Ti leg and wheel is about as light as you will get. -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498829#498829 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:55 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying From: "clivesutton" Hi Peter, thanks for posting this link to an excellent article - that explains more clearly than i've ever seen anywhere, how Flutter is initiated and influenced. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498830#498830 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:47 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying From: "Remi Guerner" Great article on this critical subject. It would be interesting to find out how the Europa has been evaluated during flight testing of the prototypes, especially at what max altitude the Vd testing has been actually performed. BTW it is always instructive to look at certificated aircraft manuals and see how they handle any issue. The attached page is from the Cirrus SR22T POH. It shows how they handle the VNE/flutter issue at high altitude. The VNE IAS is reduced linearly above 17500 ft. from 205 kts to 175 kts at 25000 ft. Very few Europas are operated at such high altitudes, but it may be advisable for their pilots to consider reducing their VNE as Cirrus do. Surprisingly Cirrus also reduce the VNO above 17500 ft: obviously this has nothing to do with flutter, so why? Remi Guerner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498831#498831 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/v_limits_sr22t_120.png ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:40 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying From: "clivesutton" Good points John. RE: the LAA annual VNe dive- what is your understanding of the reasoning behind this LAA (supported by the UK CAA), requirement? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498832#498832 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:29 AM PST US From: Richard Scanlan Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Lighter tailwheel Hi John, can you give more details on this? Ti leg? Sent from my iPad > On 15 Oct 2020, at 09:30, John Wighton wrote: > > > Not cheap by any means but a Ti leg and wheel is about as light as you will get. > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498829#498829 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:05 AM PST US From: D McFadyean Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying I'm happy that my Europa is only cleared to 1300lbs MTOWA and therefore I only have to Vne-dive to 150knts, leaving the XSs to explore the class-envelope at a much higher speed! Duncan McF do not archive > On 15 October 2020 at 09:28 John Wighton wrote: > > > > Pete, > > The article is 10 years old -a period which represents approximately 1/12 (or 8% ish) since Wright Bros made their mark. Much can happen in a very short time, primarily due to the predictive tools we (as aeronautical engineers) have at our disposal. > > Jim's excellent article does, however, still contain good information. The key elements being that there is a significant factor between Vne and Vd (typically 1.3-1.4), and that flutter should not occur before 1.2Vd. Hence no sane pilot should get anywhere near. But that also assumes an aircraft is in tip-top condition. > > A simple route is to always fly using IAS. Ensure you have calibrated your ASI, hence you are effectively flying CAS. > > This actually ignites a pet subject of mine - the LAA permit renewal flight test, which requires us all to be Test Pilots for the day - reaching Vne. A little bit like cycling toward the edge of Beachy Head but (skillfully) avoiding plummeting over the edge. We congratulate ourselves we are still alive - and then have to go and do it again next year.......... > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498828#498828 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:08 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Classic From: "MikeP" Have just had one of the outriggers break, fortunately no damage. Anyone in the UK got one or two after a tri-gear mod or just have a spare? Thanks Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498837#498837 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:57 AM PST US From: david park Subject: Re: Europa-List: Classic Will search garage tomo Dave Park G-LDVO > On 15 Oct 2020, at 18:07, MikeP wrote: > > > Have just had one of the outriggers break, fortunately no damage. > Anyone in the UK got one or two after a tri-gear mod or just have a spare? > > Thanks > Mike > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498837#498837 > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.