Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:00 AM - Re: Lighter tailwheel (John Wighton)
2. 01:04 AM - VNE annual demonstrations. (Tony Renshaw)
3. 04:12 AM - Nylon outrigger (MikeP)
4. 04:29 AM - Re: Nylon outrigger (Roger Sheridan)
5. 05:43 AM - Re: VNE annual demonstrations. (D McFadyean)
6. 02:59 PM - Mark from SmartAss (rparigoris)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Lighter tailwheel |
No details to hand but it could be a new design and manufacture - is not impossible.
It would also be possible to replace the (Mod 43) tailwheel spring with a carbon
fibre version. This would require testing off aircraft (to match spring rate
and test strength) but could save a considerable part of the 10.2 lbs of the
total mass (which may include the additional reinforcements installed anyway).
I would probably go with a moulded CF version myself - UD tows inside wrapped with
woven. Using a Ti bush for the attachment bolt.
A Ti tailwheel could be made using a copy CNC machine.
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498854#498854
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Subject: | VNE annual demonstrations. |
Hi John,
Are you or is anyone else familiar with the rationale why annual VNE dives are
to be completed? I dont understand the motive.
Thanks
Tony Renshaw
> On 16 Oct 2020, at 5:40 pm, Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 20-10-15&Archive=Europa
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 20-10-15&Archive=Europa
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Europa-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 10/15/20: 9
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 01:28 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (John Wighton)
> 2. 01:31 AM - Re: Lighter tailwheel (John Wighton)
> 3. 01:56 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (clivesutton)
> 4. 03:36 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (Remi Guerner)
> 5. 03:42 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (clivesutton)
> 6. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Lighter tailwheel (Richard Scanlan)
> 7. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (D McFadyean)
> 8. 09:53 AM - Classic (MikeP)
> 9. 10:19 AM - Re: Classic (david park)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:28:49 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying
> From: "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net>
>
>
> Pete,
>
> The article is 10 years old -a period which represents approximately 1/12 (or
8%
> ish) since Wright Bros made their mark. Much can happen in a very short time,
> primarily due to the predictive tools we (as aeronautical engineers) have at
> our disposal.
>
> Jim's excellent article does, however, still contain good information. The key
> elements being that there is a significant factor between Vne and Vd (typically
> 1.3-1.4), and that flutter should not occur before 1.2Vd. Hence no sane pilot
> should get anywhere near. But that also assumes an aircraft is in tip-top
> condition.
>
> A simple route is to always fly using IAS. Ensure you have calibrated your ASI,
> hence you are effectively flying CAS.
>
> This actually ignites a pet subject of mine - the LAA permit renewal flight test,
> which requires us all to be Test Pilots for the day - reaching Vne. A little
> bit like cycling toward the edge of Beachy Head but (skillfully) avoiding plummeting
> over the edge. We congratulate ourselves we are still alive - and then
> have to go and do it again next year..........
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498828#498828
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:31:09 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lighter tailwheel
> From: "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net>
>
>
> Not cheap by any means but a Ti leg and wheel is about as light as you will get.
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498829#498829
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:56:55 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying
> From: "clivesutton" <clive.maf@googlemail.com>
>
>
> Hi Peter, thanks for posting this link to an excellent article - that explains
> more clearly than i've ever seen anywhere, how Flutter is initiated and influenced.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498830#498830
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:36:47 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying
> From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner@orange.fr>
>
>
> Great article on this critical subject. It would be interesting to find out how
> the Europa has been evaluated during flight testing of the prototypes, especially
> at what max altitude the Vd testing has been actually performed.
> BTW it is always instructive to look at certificated aircraft manuals and see
how
> they handle any issue. The attached page is from the Cirrus SR22T POH. It shows
> how they handle the VNE/flutter issue at high altitude. The VNE IAS is reduced
> linearly above 17500 ft. from 205 kts to 175 kts at 25000 ft. Very few Europas
> are operated at such high altitudes, but it may be advisable for their
> pilots to consider reducing their VNE as Cirrus do.
> Surprisingly Cirrus also reduce the VNO above 17500 ft: obviously this has nothing
> to do with flutter, so why?
>
> Remi Guerner
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498831#498831
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/v_limits_sr22t_120.png
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:42:40 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying
> From: "clivesutton" <clive.maf@googlemail.com>
>
>
> Good points John.
>
> RE: the LAA annual VNe dive- what is your understanding of the reasoning behind
> this LAA (supported by the UK CAA), requirement?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498832#498832
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:29:29 AM PST US
> From: Richard Scanlan <aspenbuild@me.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Lighter tailwheel
>
>
> Hi John, can you give more details on this? Ti leg?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 15 Oct 2020, at 09:30, John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Not cheap by any means but a Ti leg and wheel is about as light as you will
get.
>>
>> --------
>> John Wighton
>> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498829#498829
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:44:05 AM PST US
> From: D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying
>
>
> I'm happy that my Europa is only cleared to 1300lbs MTOWA and therefore I only
> have to Vne-dive to 150knts, leaving the XSs to explore the class-envelope at
> a much higher speed!
>
> Duncan McF
> do not archive
>> On 15 October 2020 at 09:28 John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Pete,
>>
>> The article is 10 years old -a period which represents approximately 1/12 (or
> 8% ish) since Wright Bros made their mark. Much can happen in a very short time,
> primarily due to the predictive tools we (as aeronautical engineers) have
> at our disposal.
>>
>> Jim's excellent article does, however, still contain good information. The
key
> elements being that there is a significant factor between Vne and Vd (typically
> 1.3-1.4), and that flutter should not occur before 1.2Vd. Hence no sane
> pilot should get anywhere near. But that also assumes an aircraft is in tip-top
> condition.
>>
>> A simple route is to always fly using IAS. Ensure you have calibrated your
ASI,
> hence you are effectively flying CAS.
>>
>> This actually ignites a pet subject of mine - the LAA permit renewal flight
test,
> which requires us all to be Test Pilots for the day - reaching Vne. A little
> bit like cycling toward the edge of Beachy Head but (skillfully) avoiding
> plummeting over the edge. We congratulate ourselves we are still alive - and
> then have to go and do it again next year..........
>>
>> --------
>> John Wighton
>> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498828#498828
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:53:08 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Classic
> From: "MikeP" <mpotts@clara.net>
>
>
> Have just had one of the outriggers break, fortunately no damage.
> Anyone in the UK got one or two after a tri-gear mod or just have a spare?
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498837#498837
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:19:57 AM PST US
> From: david park <dpark748@me.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Classic
>
>
> Will search garage tomo
>
> Dave Park G-LDVO
>
>
>> On 15 Oct 2020, at 18:07, MikeP <mpotts@clara.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Have just had one of the outriggers break, fortunately no damage.
>> Anyone in the UK got one or two after a tri-gear mod or just have a spare?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498837#498837
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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|
Further to my previous post.
Does anyone have experience of having to replace Classic outriggers or making their
own.
thanks
MikeP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498856#498856
Message 4
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|
Subject: | Re: Nylon outrigger |
Hi Mike,
Yes, I have replaced outriggers with factory spares which were turned down slightly
to fit the sockets.
Recall using hot water to release the old legs.
Nothing too difficult.
Regards,
Roger
> On 16 Oct 2020, at 12:11, MikeP <mpotts@clara.net> wrote:
>
>
> Further to my previous post.
> Does anyone have experience of having to replace Classic outriggers or making
their own.
>
> thanks
> MikeP
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498856#498856
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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|
Subject: | Re: VNE annual demonstrations. |
To check there is no flutter?
If there is, the test doesn't have to be done again. EVER!
I suppose also to check that the controls haven't 'frozen' and that the aircraft
can still be manoeuvred.
Duncan McF
do not archive
> On 16 October 2020 at 09:03 Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi John,
> Are you or is anyone else familiar with the rationale why annual VNE dives are
to be completed? I dont understand the motive.
> Thanks
> Tony Renshaw
>
>
> > On 16 Oct 2020, at 5:40 pm, Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
> >
> > *
> >
> > =================================================
> > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > =================================================
> >
> > Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> > of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> > such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> >
> > HTML Version:
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 20-10-15&Archive=Europa
> >
> > Text Version:
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 20-10-15&Archive=Europa
> >
> >
> > ===============================================
> > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ===============================================
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > Europa-List Digest Archive
> > ---
> > Total Messages Posted Thu 10/15/20: 9
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Today's Message Index:
> > ----------------------
> >
> > 1. 01:28 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (John
Wighton)
> > 2. 01:31 AM - Re: Lighter tailwheel (John Wighton)
> > 3. 01:56 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (clivesutton)
> > 4. 03:36 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (Remi
Guerner)
> > 5. 03:42 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (clivesutton)
> > 6. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Lighter tailwheel (Richard Scanlan)
> > 7. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (D
McFadyean)
> > 8. 09:53 AM - Classic (MikeP)
> > 9. 10:19 AM - Re: Classic (david park)
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 01:28:49 AM PST US
> > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying
> > From: "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net>
> >
> >
> > Pete,
> >
> > The article is 10 years old -a period which represents approximately 1/12 (or
8%
> > ish) since Wright Bros made their mark. Much can happen in a very short time,
> > primarily due to the predictive tools we (as aeronautical engineers) have at
> > our disposal.
> >
> > Jim's excellent article does, however, still contain good information. The
key
> > elements being that there is a significant factor between Vne and Vd (typically
> > 1.3-1.4), and that flutter should not occur before 1.2Vd. Hence no sane pilot
> > should get anywhere near. But that also assumes an aircraft is in tip-top
> > condition.
> >
> > A simple route is to always fly using IAS. Ensure you have calibrated your
ASI,
> > hence you are effectively flying CAS.
> >
> > This actually ignites a pet subject of mine - the LAA permit renewal flight
test,
> > which requires us all to be Test Pilots for the day - reaching Vne. A little
> > bit like cycling toward the edge of Beachy Head but (skillfully) avoiding plummeting
> > over the edge. We congratulate ourselves we are still alive - and then
> > have to go and do it again next year..........
> >
> > --------
> > John Wighton
> > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498828#498828
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 01:31:09 AM PST US
> > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lighter tailwheel
> > From: "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net>
> >
> >
> > Not cheap by any means but a Ti leg and wheel is about as light as you will
get.
> >
> > --------
> > John Wighton
> > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498829#498829
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 01:56:55 AM PST US
> > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying
> > From: "clivesutton" <clive.maf@googlemail.com>
> >
> >
> > Hi Peter, thanks for posting this link to an excellent article - that explains
> > more clearly than i've ever seen anywhere, how Flutter is initiated and influenced.
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498830#498830
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 03:36:47 AM PST US
> > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying
> > From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner@orange.fr>
> >
> >
> > Great article on this critical subject. It would be interesting to find out
how
> > the Europa has been evaluated during flight testing of the prototypes, especially
> > at what max altitude the Vd testing has been actually performed.
> > BTW it is always instructive to look at certificated aircraft manuals and see
how
> > they handle any issue. The attached page is from the Cirrus SR22T POH. It shows
> > how they handle the VNE/flutter issue at high altitude. The VNE IAS is reduced
> > linearly above 17500 ft. from 205 kts to 175 kts at 25000 ft. Very few Europas
> > are operated at such high altitudes, but it may be advisable for their
> > pilots to consider reducing their VNE as Cirrus do.
> > Surprisingly Cirrus also reduce the VNO above 17500 ft: obviously this has
nothing
> > to do with flutter, so why?
> >
> > Remi Guerner
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498831#498831
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/v_limits_sr22t_120.png
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 03:42:40 AM PST US
> > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying
> > From: "clivesutton" <clive.maf@googlemail.com>
> >
> >
> > Good points John.
> >
> > RE: the LAA annual VNe dive- what is your understanding of the reasoning behind
> > this LAA (supported by the UK CAA), requirement?
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498832#498832
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 06:29:29 AM PST US
> > From: Richard Scanlan <aspenbuild@me.com>
> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Lighter tailwheel
> >
> >
> > Hi John, can you give more details on this? Ti leg?
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On 15 Oct 2020, at 09:30, John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Not cheap by any means but a Ti leg and wheel is about as light as you will
get.
> >>
> >> --------
> >> John Wighton
> >> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498829#498829
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 07:44:05 AM PST US
> > From: D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>
> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying
> >
> >
> > I'm happy that my Europa is only cleared to 1300lbs MTOWA and therefore I only
> > have to Vne-dive to 150knts, leaving the XSs to explore the class-envelope
at
> > a much higher speed!
> >
> > Duncan McF
> > do not archive
> >> On 15 October 2020 at 09:28 John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Pete,
> >>
> >> The article is 10 years old -a period which represents approximately 1/12
(or
> > 8% ish) since Wright Bros made their mark. Much can happen in a very short
time,
> > primarily due to the predictive tools we (as aeronautical engineers) have
> > at our disposal.
> >>
> >> Jim's excellent article does, however, still contain good information. The
key
> > elements being that there is a significant factor between Vne and Vd (typically
> > 1.3-1.4), and that flutter should not occur before 1.2Vd. Hence no sane
> > pilot should get anywhere near. But that also assumes an aircraft is in tip-top
> > condition.
> >>
> >> A simple route is to always fly using IAS. Ensure you have calibrated your
ASI,
> > hence you are effectively flying CAS.
> >>
> >> This actually ignites a pet subject of mine - the LAA permit renewal flight
test,
> > which requires us all to be Test Pilots for the day - reaching Vne. A little
> > bit like cycling toward the edge of Beachy Head but (skillfully) avoiding
> > plummeting over the edge. We congratulate ourselves we are still alive - and
> > then have to go and do it again next year..........
> >>
> >> --------
> >> John Wighton
> >> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498828#498828
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 09:53:08 AM PST US
> > Subject: Europa-List: Classic
> > From: "MikeP" <mpotts@clara.net>
> >
> >
> > Have just had one of the outriggers break, fortunately no damage.
> > Anyone in the UK got one or two after a tri-gear mod or just have a spare?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498837#498837
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 10:19:57 AM PST US
> > From: david park <dpark748@me.com>
> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Classic
> >
> >
> > Will search garage tomo
> >
> > Dave Park G-LDVO
> >
> >
> >> On 15 Oct 2020, at 18:07, MikeP <mpotts@clara.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Have just had one of the outriggers break, fortunately no damage.
> >> Anyone in the UK got one or two after a tri-gear mod or just have a spare?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498837#498837
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Message 6
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Subject: | Mark from SmartAss |
Hi Group We are in process of installing SmartAss 2 and have a question. We E-Mailed
a while back and go no reply to support@smartavionics.com. Anyone have a
different E-mail address or suggestion? Thx. Ron
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498869#498869
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