Europa-List Digest Archive

Fri 10/16/20


Total Messages Posted: 6



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:00 AM - Re: Lighter tailwheel (John Wighton)
     2. 01:04 AM - VNE annual demonstrations.  (Tony Renshaw)
     3. 04:12 AM - Nylon outrigger (MikeP)
     4. 04:29 AM - Re: Nylon outrigger (Roger Sheridan)
     5. 05:43 AM - Re: VNE annual demonstrations. (D McFadyean)
     6. 02:59 PM - Mark from SmartAss (rparigoris)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:00:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Lighter tailwheel
    From: "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net>
    No details to hand but it could be a new design and manufacture - is not impossible. It would also be possible to replace the (Mod 43) tailwheel spring with a carbon fibre version. This would require testing off aircraft (to match spring rate and test strength) but could save a considerable part of the 10.2 lbs of the total mass (which may include the additional reinforcements installed anyway). I would probably go with a moulded CF version myself - UD tows inside wrapped with woven. Using a Ti bush for the attachment bolt. A Ti tailwheel could be made using a copy CNC machine. -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498854#498854


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:04:24 AM PST US
    From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
    Subject: VNE annual demonstrations.
    Hi John, Are you or is anyone else familiar with the rationale why annual VNE dives are to be completed? I dont understand the motive. Thanks Tony Renshaw > On 16 Oct 2020, at 5:40 pm, Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list@matronics.com> wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 20-10-15&Archive=Europa > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 20-10-15&Archive=Europa > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Europa-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 10/15/20: 9 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 01:28 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (John Wighton) > 2. 01:31 AM - Re: Lighter tailwheel (John Wighton) > 3. 01:56 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (clivesutton) > 4. 03:36 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (Remi Guerner) > 5. 03:42 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (clivesutton) > 6. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Lighter tailwheel (Richard Scanlan) > 7. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (D McFadyean) > 8. 09:53 AM - Classic (MikeP) > 9. 10:19 AM - Re: Classic (david park) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:28:49 AM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying > From: "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net> > > > Pete, > > The article is 10 years old -a period which represents approximately 1/12 (or 8% > ish) since Wright Bros made their mark. Much can happen in a very short time, > primarily due to the predictive tools we (as aeronautical engineers) have at > our disposal. > > Jim's excellent article does, however, still contain good information. The key > elements being that there is a significant factor between Vne and Vd (typically > 1.3-1.4), and that flutter should not occur before 1.2Vd. Hence no sane pilot > should get anywhere near. But that also assumes an aircraft is in tip-top > condition. > > A simple route is to always fly using IAS. Ensure you have calibrated your ASI, > hence you are effectively flying CAS. > > This actually ignites a pet subject of mine - the LAA permit renewal flight test, > which requires us all to be Test Pilots for the day - reaching Vne. A little > bit like cycling toward the edge of Beachy Head but (skillfully) avoiding plummeting > over the edge. We congratulate ourselves we are still alive - and then > have to go and do it again next year.......... > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498828#498828 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:31:09 AM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lighter tailwheel > From: "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net> > > > Not cheap by any means but a Ti leg and wheel is about as light as you will get. > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498829#498829 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:56:55 AM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying > From: "clivesutton" <clive.maf@googlemail.com> > > > Hi Peter, thanks for posting this link to an excellent article - that explains > more clearly than i've ever seen anywhere, how Flutter is initiated and influenced. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498830#498830 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:36:47 AM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying > From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner@orange.fr> > > > Great article on this critical subject. It would be interesting to find out how > the Europa has been evaluated during flight testing of the prototypes, especially > at what max altitude the Vd testing has been actually performed. > BTW it is always instructive to look at certificated aircraft manuals and see how > they handle any issue. The attached page is from the Cirrus SR22T POH. It shows > how they handle the VNE/flutter issue at high altitude. The VNE IAS is reduced > linearly above 17500 ft. from 205 kts to 175 kts at 25000 ft. Very few Europas > are operated at such high altitudes, but it may be advisable for their > pilots to consider reducing their VNE as Cirrus do. > Surprisingly Cirrus also reduce the VNO above 17500 ft: obviously this has nothing > to do with flutter, so why? > > Remi Guerner > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498831#498831 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/v_limits_sr22t_120.png > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:42:40 AM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying > From: "clivesutton" <clive.maf@googlemail.com> > > > Good points John. > > RE: the LAA annual VNe dive- what is your understanding of the reasoning behind > this LAA (supported by the UK CAA), requirement? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498832#498832 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:29:29 AM PST US > From: Richard Scanlan <aspenbuild@me.com> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Lighter tailwheel > > > Hi John, can you give more details on this? Ti leg? > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 15 Oct 2020, at 09:30, John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote: >> >> >> Not cheap by any means but a Ti leg and wheel is about as light as you will get. >> >> -------- >> John Wighton >> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498829#498829 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:44:05 AM PST US > From: D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying > > > I'm happy that my Europa is only cleared to 1300lbs MTOWA and therefore I only > have to Vne-dive to 150knts, leaving the XSs to explore the class-envelope at > a much higher speed! > > Duncan McF > do not archive >> On 15 October 2020 at 09:28 John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> Pete, >> >> The article is 10 years old -a period which represents approximately 1/12 (or > 8% ish) since Wright Bros made their mark. Much can happen in a very short time, > primarily due to the predictive tools we (as aeronautical engineers) have > at our disposal. >> >> Jim's excellent article does, however, still contain good information. The key > elements being that there is a significant factor between Vne and Vd (typically > 1.3-1.4), and that flutter should not occur before 1.2Vd. Hence no sane > pilot should get anywhere near. But that also assumes an aircraft is in tip-top > condition. >> >> A simple route is to always fly using IAS. Ensure you have calibrated your ASI, > hence you are effectively flying CAS. >> >> This actually ignites a pet subject of mine - the LAA permit renewal flight test, > which requires us all to be Test Pilots for the day - reaching Vne. A little > bit like cycling toward the edge of Beachy Head but (skillfully) avoiding > plummeting over the edge. We congratulate ourselves we are still alive - and > then have to go and do it again next year.......... >> >> -------- >> John Wighton >> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498828#498828 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:53:08 AM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Classic > From: "MikeP" <mpotts@clara.net> > > > Have just had one of the outriggers break, fortunately no damage. > Anyone in the UK got one or two after a tri-gear mod or just have a spare? > > Thanks > Mike > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498837#498837 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:19:57 AM PST US > From: david park <dpark748@me.com> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Classic > > > Will search garage tomo > > Dave Park G-LDVO > > >> On 15 Oct 2020, at 18:07, MikeP <mpotts@clara.net> wrote: >> >> >> Have just had one of the outriggers break, fortunately no damage. >> Anyone in the UK got one or two after a tri-gear mod or just have a spare? >> >> Thanks >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498837#498837 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:12:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Nylon outrigger
    From: "MikeP" <mpotts@clara.net>
    Further to my previous post. Does anyone have experience of having to replace Classic outriggers or making their own. thanks MikeP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498856#498856


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:29:19 AM PST US
    From: Roger Sheridan <rogersheridan@mac.com>
    Subject: Re: Nylon outrigger
    Hi Mike, Yes, I have replaced outriggers with factory spares which were turned down slightly to fit the sockets. Recall using hot water to release the old legs. Nothing too difficult. Regards, Roger > On 16 Oct 2020, at 12:11, MikeP <mpotts@clara.net> wrote: > > > Further to my previous post. > Does anyone have experience of having to replace Classic outriggers or making their own. > > thanks > MikeP > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498856#498856 > > > > > > > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:43:38 AM PST US
    From: D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>
    Subject: Re: VNE annual demonstrations.
    To check there is no flutter? If there is, the test doesn't have to be done again. EVER! I suppose also to check that the controls haven't 'frozen' and that the aircraft can still be manoeuvred. Duncan McF do not archive > On 16 October 2020 at 09:03 Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi John, > Are you or is anyone else familiar with the rationale why annual VNE dives are to be completed? I dont understand the motive. > Thanks > Tony Renshaw > > > > On 16 Oct 2020, at 5:40 pm, Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list@matronics.com> wrote: > > > > * > > > > ================================================= > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > ================================================= > > > > Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > > of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > HTML Version: > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 20-10-15&Archive=Europa > > > > Text Version: > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 20-10-15&Archive=Europa > > > > > > =============================================== > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > =============================================== > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Europa-List Digest Archive > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Thu 10/15/20: 9 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > ---------------------- > > > > 1. 01:28 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (John Wighton) > > 2. 01:31 AM - Re: Lighter tailwheel (John Wighton) > > 3. 01:56 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (clivesutton) > > 4. 03:36 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (Remi Guerner) > > 5. 03:42 AM - Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (clivesutton) > > 6. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Lighter tailwheel (Richard Scanlan) > > 7. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying (D McFadyean) > > 8. 09:53 AM - Classic (MikeP) > > 9. 10:19 AM - Re: Classic (david park) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 01:28:49 AM PST US > > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying > > From: "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net> > > > > > > Pete, > > > > The article is 10 years old -a period which represents approximately 1/12 (or 8% > > ish) since Wright Bros made their mark. Much can happen in a very short time, > > primarily due to the predictive tools we (as aeronautical engineers) have at > > our disposal. > > > > Jim's excellent article does, however, still contain good information. The key > > elements being that there is a significant factor between Vne and Vd (typically > > 1.3-1.4), and that flutter should not occur before 1.2Vd. Hence no sane pilot > > should get anywhere near. But that also assumes an aircraft is in tip-top > > condition. > > > > A simple route is to always fly using IAS. Ensure you have calibrated your ASI, > > hence you are effectively flying CAS. > > > > This actually ignites a pet subject of mine - the LAA permit renewal flight test, > > which requires us all to be Test Pilots for the day - reaching Vne. A little > > bit like cycling toward the edge of Beachy Head but (skillfully) avoiding plummeting > > over the edge. We congratulate ourselves we are still alive - and then > > have to go and do it again next year.......... > > > > -------- > > John Wighton > > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498828#498828 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 01:31:09 AM PST US > > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lighter tailwheel > > From: "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net> > > > > > > Not cheap by any means but a Ti leg and wheel is about as light as you will get. > > > > -------- > > John Wighton > > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498829#498829 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 01:56:55 AM PST US > > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying > > From: "clivesutton" <clive.maf@googlemail.com> > > > > > > Hi Peter, thanks for posting this link to an excellent article - that explains > > more clearly than i've ever seen anywhere, how Flutter is initiated and influenced. > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498830#498830 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 03:36:47 AM PST US > > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying > > From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner@orange.fr> > > > > > > Great article on this critical subject. It would be interesting to find out how > > the Europa has been evaluated during flight testing of the prototypes, especially > > at what max altitude the Vd testing has been actually performed. > > BTW it is always instructive to look at certificated aircraft manuals and see how > > they handle any issue. The attached page is from the Cirrus SR22T POH. It shows > > how they handle the VNE/flutter issue at high altitude. The VNE IAS is reduced > > linearly above 17500 ft. from 205 kts to 175 kts at 25000 ft. Very few Europas > > are operated at such high altitudes, but it may be advisable for their > > pilots to consider reducing their VNE as Cirrus do. > > Surprisingly Cirrus also reduce the VNO above 17500 ft: obviously this has nothing > > to do with flutter, so why? > > > > Remi Guerner > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498831#498831 > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/v_limits_sr22t_120.png > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 03:42:40 AM PST US > > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying > > From: "clivesutton" <clive.maf@googlemail.com> > > > > > > Good points John. > > > > RE: the LAA annual VNe dive- what is your understanding of the reasoning behind > > this LAA (supported by the UK CAA), requirement? > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498832#498832 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 06:29:29 AM PST US > > From: Richard Scanlan <aspenbuild@me.com> > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Lighter tailwheel > > > > > > Hi John, can you give more details on this? Ti leg? > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On 15 Oct 2020, at 09:30, John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Not cheap by any means but a Ti leg and wheel is about as light as you will get. > >> > >> -------- > >> John Wighton > >> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498829#498829 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 07:44:05 AM PST US > > From: D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net> > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Vne and flutter explained - Australian Flying > > > > > > I'm happy that my Europa is only cleared to 1300lbs MTOWA and therefore I only > > have to Vne-dive to 150knts, leaving the XSs to explore the class-envelope at > > a much higher speed! > > > > Duncan McF > > do not archive > >> On 15 October 2020 at 09:28 John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> Pete, > >> > >> The article is 10 years old -a period which represents approximately 1/12 (or > > 8% ish) since Wright Bros made their mark. Much can happen in a very short time, > > primarily due to the predictive tools we (as aeronautical engineers) have > > at our disposal. > >> > >> Jim's excellent article does, however, still contain good information. The key > > elements being that there is a significant factor between Vne and Vd (typically > > 1.3-1.4), and that flutter should not occur before 1.2Vd. Hence no sane > > pilot should get anywhere near. But that also assumes an aircraft is in tip-top > > condition. > >> > >> A simple route is to always fly using IAS. Ensure you have calibrated your ASI, > > hence you are effectively flying CAS. > >> > >> This actually ignites a pet subject of mine - the LAA permit renewal flight test, > > which requires us all to be Test Pilots for the day - reaching Vne. A little > > bit like cycling toward the edge of Beachy Head but (skillfully) avoiding > > plummeting over the edge. We congratulate ourselves we are still alive - and > > then have to go and do it again next year.......... > >> > >> -------- > >> John Wighton > >> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498828#498828 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 09:53:08 AM PST US > > Subject: Europa-List: Classic > > From: "MikeP" <mpotts@clara.net> > > > > > > Have just had one of the outriggers break, fortunately no damage. > > Anyone in the UK got one or two after a tri-gear mod or just have a spare? > > > > Thanks > > Mike > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498837#498837 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 10:19:57 AM PST US > > From: david park <dpark748@me.com> > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Classic > > > > > > Will search garage tomo > > > > Dave Park G-LDVO > > > > > >> On 15 Oct 2020, at 18:07, MikeP <mpotts@clara.net> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Have just had one of the outriggers break, fortunately no damage. > >> Anyone in the UK got one or two after a tri-gear mod or just have a spare? > >> > >> Thanks > >> Mike > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498837#498837 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 02:59:16 PM PST US
    Subject: Mark from SmartAss
    From: "rparigoris" <rparigor@hotmail.com>
    Hi Group We are in process of installing SmartAss 2 and have a question. We E-Mailed a while back and go no reply to support@smartavionics.com. Anyone have a different E-mail address or suggestion? Thx. Ron Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498869#498869




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