---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/23/20: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:06 AM - Prop dia. (Anthony Braun) 2. 03:45 AM - Re: Prop dia. (D McFadyean) 3. 04:03 AM - Re: Prop dia. (Pete Jeffers) 4. 06:37 AM - Re: Prop dia. (Wladimir Kummer) 5. 06:45 AM - Re: Prop dia. (Pete Jeffers) 6. 06:56 AM - FW: Prop dia. (Pete Jeffers) 7. 08:55 AM - Re: Prop dia. (Mike Christine Duane) 8. 09:46 AM - Re: Prop dia. (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 9. 10:36 AM - Re: Prop dia. (William Daniell) 10. 06:45 PM - B-nut loosening on oil fittings? (rparigoris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:26 AM PST US From: Anthony Braun Subject: Europa-List: Prop dia. Hi, New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a non standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle gear or conventional tail wheel setup? Regards, Tony Braun ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:12 AM PST US From: D McFadyean Subject: Re: Europa-List: Prop dia. 64" is the limit in the UK for trigear. Of course that's not necessarily "safe" (liability disclaimer!). Some (not all) conventional gear Europas have higher ground clearance than both the mono and tri, so larger prop diameters may be accepted, whilst still being compliant with CS-VLA. DMcF. > On 23 December 2020 at 11:05 Anthony Braun wrote: > > > > Hi, > New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a non standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle gear or conventional tail wheel setup? > Regards, > Tony Braun > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:35 AM PST US From: "Pete Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Prop dia. 1625mm or 64" dia. Pete Jeffers -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Braun Sent: 23 December 2020 11:05 Subject: Europa-List: Prop dia. Hi, New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a non standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle gear or conventional tail wheel setup? Regards, Tony Braun -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:06 AM PST US From: Wladimir Kummer Subject: Re: Europa-List: Prop dia. Hello Tony, What engine is being considered? I=C2=B4m building a Europa XS Long Wing an d intend to use a 0200 as an engine. To accomodate a longer prop will make the thrust line 2" higher. Best regards Wladimir Em qua., 23 de dez. de 2020 =C3-s 08:09, Anthony Braun escreveu: > > Hi, > New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a no n > standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle gear or > conventional tail wheel setup? > Regards, > Tony Braun =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:00 AM PST US From: "Pete Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Prop dia. Further to my previous comment ie 1625mm or 64 inches diameter, please go to the following link for all information about props certified in the UK for fitting to various engines on various types of Europa. http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/NewMods/Aircraft_Type_ Files/247%20-%20EUROPA.pdf Regards Pete Jeffers -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Braun Sent: 23 December 2020 11:05 Subject: Europa-List: Prop dia. Hi, New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a non standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle gear or conventional tail wheel setup? Regards, Tony Braun -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:47 AM PST US From: "Pete Jeffers" Subject: FW: Europa-List: Prop dia. -----Original Message----- From: Pete Jeffers [mailto:pjeffers@talktalk.net] Sent: 23 December 2020 14:44 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Prop dia. Further to my previous comment ie 1625mm or 64 inches diameter, please go to the following link for all information about props certified in the UK for fitting to various engines on various types of Europa. http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/NewMods/Aircraft_Type_ Files/247%20-%20EUROPA.pdf Regards Pete Jeffers -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Braun Sent: 23 December 2020 11:05 Subject: Europa-List: Prop dia. Hi, New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a non standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle gear or conventional tail wheel setup? Regards, Tony Braun -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:43 AM PST US From: Mike Christine Duane Subject: Re: Europa-List: Prop dia. Good morning Tony, does the engine manufacturer have any input as to which p rops they suggest? I used a Jabiru 3300 and they addressed the prop issue in their installation manual. Do you plan on a fixed pitch, ground adjustable, or constant speed prop? Wit h the constant speed prop being the heaviest, have you done the W&B to make s ure you stay inside the =9Cbox=9D? Just askin=99. LOL Mike Duane N377EA Europa XS Conventional gear Chandler, AZ Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 23, 2020, at 7:37 AM, Wladimir Kummer wr ote: > > =EF=BB > Hello Tony, > > What engine is being considered? I=C2=B4m building a Europa XS Long Wing a nd intend to use a 0200 as an engine. To accomodate a longer prop will make t he thrust line 2" higher. > > Best regards > > Wladimir > >> Em qua., 23 de dez. de 2020 =C3-s 08:09, Anthony Braun escreveu: >> >> Hi, >> New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a no n standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle gear o r conventional tail wheel setup? >> Regards, >> Tony Braun >> ========== >> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?Europa-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> ========== >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:01 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: Prop dia. Tony, If it is not too late I would suggest thinking very seriously about fitting any engine other than a Rotax. The plane was designed around the Rotax, it works superbly with the Rotax and if built carefully has an excellent load carrying capacity and excellent performance with a Rotax, particularly a 912S or 914. With my 914 and a Woodcomp CS prop I can exceed VNe on the flat at MAUW from 6500 ft upwards whilst having capacity for two good sized men, full fuel and luggage. Having been around the Europa scene for a couple of decades I have seen multiple episodes of folk regretting the decision to try some other sort of engine. I wouldn't knock the O-200 in airframes designed for it but it is appreciably heavier than the 912S or 914 and it is difficult to see any sensible advantage. When I analysed all the ditchings around the UK over a 20 yr period ( a few years back), of the 49 planes that went in the water, there were none powered by any Rotax 91variants, but quite a lot of Continentals. It is after all a much older design than the Rotax. Most people building carefully and fitting a Rotax will end up with an empty weight between 820 and 880 lbs (but totals well up in the 900s are not unknown). With a MAUW of 1370 lbs this gives a total useable weight or load capacity for crew and baggage of between 550 and 480lbs (that is 250 - 218kg). Baggage capacity is 80 lbs /36kg and if you are touring you may well find you need all of that. And if you are to take a couple of average chaps of 185lbs/85kg you are clearly left making compromises which will be quite restricting if your build is on the heavy side even before you fit a heavy engine. Best wishes, David Joyce On 2020-12-23 11:05, Anthony Braun wrote: > > > Hi, > New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a > non standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle > gear or conventional tail wheel setup? > Regards, > Tony Braun ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:36:58 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Prop dia. David I thoroughly endorse David's comment. It's hard enough to build a plane without the additional challenge of a non standard engine. I almost went down the Subaru route and so glad I didnt - I did a thing which I almost never do...I followed advice What MAP settings do you use on your 914 for max continuous and for cruise? Will William Daniell LONGPORT +1 786 878 0246 On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 12:49 PM wrote: > Tony, If it is not too late I would suggest thinking very seriously about > fitting any engine other than a Rotax. The plane was designed around the > Rotax, it works superbly with the Rotax and if built carefully has an > excellent load carrying capacity and excellent performance with a Rotax, > particularly a 912S or 914. With my 914 and a Woodcomp CS prop I can exceed > VNe on the flat at MAUW from 6500 ft upwards whilst having capacity for two > good sized men, full fuel and luggage. Having been around the Europa scene > for a couple of decades I have seen multiple episodes of folk regretting > the decision to try some other sort of engine. I wouldn't knock the O-200 > in airframes designed for it but it is appreciably heavier than the 912S > or 914 and it is difficult to see any sensible advantage. When I analysed > all the ditchings around the UK over a 20 yr period ( a few years back), of > the 49 planes that went in the water, there were none powered by any Rotax > 91variants, but quite a lot of Continentals. It is after all a much older > design than the Rotax. Most people building carefully and fitting a Rotax > will end up with an empty weight between 820 and 880 lbs (but totals well > up in the 900s are not unknown). With a MAUW of 1370 lbs this gives a > total useable weight or load capacity for crew and baggage of between 550 > and 480lbs (that is 250 - 218kg). Baggage capacity is 80 lbs /36kg and if > you are touring you may well find you need all of that. And if you are to > take a couple of average chaps of 185lbs/85kg you are clearly left making > compromises which will be quite restricting if your build is on the heavy > side even before you fit a heavy engine. > > Best wishes, David Joyce > > > On 2020-12-23 11:05, Anthony Braun wrote: > > > Hi, > New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a non > standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle gear or > conventional tail wheel setup? > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - > Mms.matronics.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://foru > ====================== > .matronics.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://wikisp; - > List &nb --> > http://www.matronics.com/contribut============== > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:36 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: B-nut loosening on oil fittings? From: "rparigoris" Hi Group Has anyone ever had a B-nut loosen on a Rotax oil system? I have some external retaining rings I can push onto the radiator and oil tank B-nuts and safety wire, but wondering if I need or want to do so? Thx. Ron P. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499789#499789 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.