Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:26 AM - Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam (Michel AUVRAY)
2. 02:30 AM - Under cowl temperature data request (Andy Ringrose)
3. 03:39 AM - Re: Under cowl temperature data request (D McFadyean)
4. 04:08 AM - Re: Under cowl temperature data request (Christoph Both)
5. 04:17 AM - Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
6. 05:20 AM - Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam (Alain Chabert)
7. 05:31 AM - Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam (Pete)
8. 05:58 AM - Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam (William Daniell)
9. 06:10 AM - Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam (Pete)
10. 08:11 AM - Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam (Bud Yerly)
11. 08:50 AM - Buy (10Pieces) Apple iPhone 12 ProMax 128GB Unlocked $9,990 (matt63867)
12. 09:24 PM - Buy (20Pieces) Apple iPhone 12 128GB Mini Unlocked $11,580 (matt63867)
13. 10:11 PM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/02/21 (Michel AUVRAY)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam |
Hello Bud, I send to you my throttle cable solution operative since 1999
without problem.
When I was made my second or third fly with my europa 145, I have the same
problem, the cables bend into the box !
Also I applied this radical solution. And I used this solution on many
others rotax engines.
If the spring is broken or inoperative, the piano wire performs the
function with great reliability.
Le sam. 2 janv. 2021 =C3- 17:51, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> a =C3=A9cri
t :
> Ian,
> I believe the Europa Club has a paper I did on throttle cable installatio
n
> on their site, it is also at
> https://customflightcreations.com/techniques-articles/ (I don't pay
> google any longer so type in the https://... to find the site through all
> the paying ad customers.) If the cable bends in the throttle box, it is
> generally not a lubrication problem or even a sticky oil cable to sheath
> issue. It is a problem with the cable installation, most likely a kinked
> or bound cable. Maintainers unfamiliar with the Europa often look at the
> cables and are appalled that they are loose and not firmly bound all alon
g
> their route to the carb. In their attempt for neatness, they bind the
> cable(s) and cause them to bind. Builders also fail to get their initial
> throttle box alignment correct to prevent the cable(s) from cleanly
> entering the sheath from the throttle arm. I recently scolded one of my
> clients for allowing a well known Rotax repair facility touch his cable
> routing. The repairman kinked the cables and bound them tightly. It was
> an older Classic (20+ years old), so upon installation of his new cables,
> all worked flawlessly again.
>
> Cables must be anchored and aligned properly on both ends and frankly, th
e
> area in between must be loopy and only lightly affixed to prevent
> interference in the wheel well of the mono.
>
> A new set of cables can be purchased, but still, the running of the
> cables, the alignment in the home made throttle box and fixation to the
> carby must be addressed.
> To supplement my article on "Throttle and choke cable etiquette" attached
,
> please check the following:
>
> Prior to removing the cables to rebuild them to proper spec. one can chec
k
> that the cables are not kinked or tightly bound, the cable binding nuts o
n
> the throttles are lubricated and free to rotate, and the throttle box cab
le
> pivot points on the arm are free to operate. (The only two points
> requiring lubrication are this pivot on the throttle linkage and the box
> cable pivot attachment in my opinion.) Look into the throttle box for
> proper cable alignment. If issues are found, simply removing the
> cable/throttle box to your nice warm workbench and correcting issues is a
ll
> that is needed. I find that if the cable itself is kinked, or unraveled,
> it is best to replace the cables as it is not worth the time. If the cab
le
> will not operate laid out on the bench, it won't work in the plane. If y
ou
> have to tug on a cable in either direction to get it to move, you have a
> damaged sheath. Remember, cable sheaths are just a coil of wire wrapped
> around a nylon tube. If the winding is damaged, it squeezes the inner
> liner, and the cable will not operate freely in the sheath.
>
> For me, the nylon sheath lined cables require no lube over a lifetime.
> (Although I have used a graphite lube to ease customers fears from the
> constant complaints of club members/owners on this subject.) The sheath
is
> lined with nylon, coiled in stainless, then heat shrink over the top maki
ng
> a dirt resistant sheath for the twisted wire cable. My old original
> Classic cables from 1998 (I'm not sure if they were supplied by Europa)
> were damaged by the original builder and were shortened in length, but al
as
> his technique was poor as the cable sheaths were bent hard, the cable end
> cuts were smashed and the cable attachments were misaligned in the thrott
le
> box. So there was much to correct. Note that if supplied with an
> aftermarket or original non lined sheath, they are best replaced as
> stainless steel to stainless steel can lead to a corrosion problem
> eventually. My 2005 supplied Europa cables have been good now for 15+
> years with only a single light lube of a Teflon or graphite that was used
> during inspection (I can't remember what lube I used on the cloth as I wa
s
> more interested in corrosion of the cables here in Florida). The reason
I
> pulled my cables was for an experiment during my rubber replacement at th
e
> 10 year condition inspection, when I also chose to install a throttle
> friction.
>
> Some owner/builders have done solid cables of wire, model airplane nyrod
> push pull cables, and Zenith style solid rod to a welded arm on the
> firewall that allows both throttles to be actuated via a short push pull
> cable. All taking more time, money and effort than simply following cabl
e
> etiquette. Read over the attached paper and check your cables for
> yourself. Correct any issues, make sure it works on the bench with the
> cables straight, then make a large loop and check again. After install i
n
> the aircraft but not yet attached to the carb arm, the cables should mov
e
> freely. If the throttle cables worked on the bench and not in the
> aircraft, you've pinched something. I've found from winter to summer, fr
om
> minus 10C to plus 40C the cables work fine from Canada to Florida so they
> should work for you.
>
> Any cable of twisted wire, solid wire or plastic will do if you can get
> the fittings right on the ends and aligned properly. In experimentation,
> it takes a keen eye for detail, time, patience, analysis and money to
> correct our new designs/mods and get them working flawlessly.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of MEE
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 12:52 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
>
>
> I had to abort a take-off due to poor acceleration and low manifold
> pressure.
> Problem was caused by one throttle cable sticking at just above idle
> while the other at full throttle!
> Even when the cable was lubricated it was still has high friction. Looks
> like I need new cables. Think the cable system needs expandable rubber
> boots to reduce the amount of grit that must contaminate the cable runs.
> Anyone else had this problem?
>
> --------
> Ian McClelland
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.
matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D499940%23499940&data=04%7C01%7C%7
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Message 2
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Subject: | Under cowl temperature data request |
Wondered if anyone had recorded any under cowl temperature data with
particular reference to post engine shutdown. I believe the installation of
'soft start units' had a not to exceed limitation applied.
Many thanks in advance.
Andy Ringrose
--
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Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Under cowl temperature data request |
The temperature label on my Softstart has not registered its lowest indicat
ion i.e. the temp has been <72C. This is with blocked side gills (the side
vents at the back of the top cowl). However, there is no lip seal around th
e airbox, so hot air can vent through the NACA duct in the top cowl, after
shut down. Typically in flight, the temperatures in the proximity of the mo
dules is about +20C on ambient (OAT), or up to +30C differential in climbou
t.
I don't see much point of a temperature limitation for the softstart; it's
not flight-critical, although the boxes under it are, and aren't helped by
intimately sticking the softstart on top!
Duncan McF.
> On 03 January 2021 at 10:29 Andy Ringrose <andy_ringrose@onetel.com> wrot
e:
>
>
> Wondered if anyone had recorded any under cowl temperature data with
particular reference to post engine shutdown. I believe the installation of
=98soft start units=99 had a not to exceed limitation applied.
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> Andy Ringrose
>
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=l
ink&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium
=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclie
nt
>
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Subject: | Re: Under cowl temperature data request |
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Subject: | Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam |
Michel, I like your solution! Next time my cables give trouble I shall
replace them with piano wire 'facon Auvray'.
Bon Annee, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2021-01-03 10:25, Michel AUVRAY wrote:
> Hello Bud, I send to you my throttle cable solution operative since
> 1999 without problem.
> When I was made my second or third fly with my europa 145, I have the
> same problem, the cables bend into the box !
> Also I applied this radical solution. And I used this solution on many
> others rotax engines.
> If the spring is broken or inoperative, the piano wire performs the
> function with great reliability.
>
> Le sam. 2 janv. 2021 17:51, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> a crit :
>
>> Ian,
>> I believe the Europa Club has a paper I did on throttle cable
>> installation on their site, it is also at
>> https://customflightcreations.com/techniques-articles/ (I don't pay
>> google any longer so type in the https://... to find the site through
>> all the paying ad customers.) If the cable bends in the throttle box,
>> it is generally not a lubrication problem or even a sticky oil cable
>> to sheath issue. It is a problem with the cable installation, most
>> likely a kinked or bound cable. Maintainers unfamiliar with the
>> Europa often look at the cables and are appalled that they are loose
>> and not firmly bound all along their route to the carb. In their
>> attempt for neatness, they bind the cable(s) and cause them to bind.
>> Builders also fail to get their initial throttle box alignment correct
>> to prevent the cable(s) from cleanly entering the sheath from the
>> throttle arm. I recently scolded one of my clients for allowing a
>> well known Rotax repair facility touch his cable routing. The
>> repairman kinked the cables and bound them tightly. It was an older
>> Classic (20+ years old), so upon installation of his new cables, all
>> worked flawlessly again.
>>
>> Cables must be anchored and aligned properly on both ends and frankly,
>> the area in between must be loopy and only lightly affixed to prevent
>> interference in the wheel well of the mono.
>>
>> A new set of cables can be purchased, but still, the running of the
>> cables, the alignment in the home made throttle box and fixation to
>> the carby must be addressed.
>> To supplement my article on "Throttle and choke cable etiquette"
>> attached, please check the following:
>>
>> Prior to removing the cables to rebuild them to proper spec. one can
>> check that the cables are not kinked or tightly bound, the cable
>> binding nuts on the throttles are lubricated and free to rotate, and
>> the throttle box cable pivot points on the arm are free to operate.
>> (The only two points requiring lubrication are this pivot on the
>> throttle linkage and the box cable pivot attachment in my opinion.)
>> Look into the throttle box for proper cable alignment. If issues are
>> found, simply removing the cable/throttle box to your nice warm
>> workbench and correcting issues is all that is needed. I find that if
>> the cable itself is kinked, or unraveled, it is best to replace the
>> cables as it is not worth the time. If the cable will not operate
>> laid out on the bench, it won't work in the plane. If you have to tug
>> on a cable in either direction to get it to move, you have a damaged
>> sheath. Remember, cable sheaths are just a coil of wire wrapped
>> around a nylon tube. If the winding is damaged, it squeezes the inner
>> liner, and the cable will not operate freely in the sheath.
>>
>> For me, the nylon sheath lined cables require no lube over a lifetime.
>> (Although I have used a graphite lube to ease customers fears from
>> the constant complaints of club members/owners on this subject.) The
>> sheath is lined with nylon, coiled in stainless, then heat shrink over
>> the top making a dirt resistant sheath for the twisted wire cable. My
>> old original Classic cables from 1998 (I'm not sure if they were
>> supplied by Europa) were damaged by the original builder and were
>> shortened in length, but alas his technique was poor as the cable
>> sheaths were bent hard, the cable end cuts were smashed and the cable
>> attachments were misaligned in the throttle box. So there was much to
>> correct. Note that if supplied with an aftermarket or original non
>> lined sheath, they are best replaced as stainless steel to stainless
>> steel can lead to a corrosion problem eventually. My 2005 supplied
>> Europa cables have been good now for 15+ years with only a single
>> light lube of a Teflon or graphite that was used during inspection (I
>> can't remember what lube I used on the cloth as I was more interested
>> in corrosion of the cables here in Florida). The reason I pulled my
>> cables was for an experiment during my rubber replacement at the 10
>> year condition inspection, when I also chose to install a throttle
>> friction.
>>
>> Some owner/builders have done solid cables of wire, model airplane
>> nyrod push pull cables, and Zenith style solid rod to a welded arm on
>> the firewall that allows both throttles to be actuated via a short
>> push pull cable. All taking more time, money and effort than simply
>> following cable etiquette. Read over the attached paper and check
>> your cables for yourself. Correct any issues, make sure it works on
>> the bench with the cables straight, then make a large loop and check
>> again. After install in the aircraft but not yet attached to the carb
>> arm, the cables should move freely. If the throttle cables worked on
>> the bench and not in the aircraft, you've pinched something. I've
>> found from winter to summer, from minus 10C to plus 40C the cables
>> work fine from Canada to Florida so they should work for you.
>>
>> Any cable of twisted wire, solid wire or plastic will do if you can
>> get the fittings right on the ends and aligned properly. In
>> experimentation, it takes a keen eye for detail, time, patience,
>> analysis and money to correct our new designs/mods and get them
>> working flawlessly.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Bud Yerly
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of MEE
>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 12:52 AM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Europa-List: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
>>
>>
>> I had to abort a take-off due to poor acceleration and low manifold
>> pressure.
>> Problem was caused by one throttle cable sticking at just above idle
>> while the other at full throttle!
>> Even when the cable was lubricated it was still has high friction.
>> Looks like I need new cables. Think the cable system needs expandable
>> rubber boots to reduce the amount of grit that must contaminate the
>> cable runs.
>> Anyone else had this problem?
>>
>> --------
>> Ian McClelland
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D499940%23499940&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107968109%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dVOlPJhn9HUqIQ8ni9%2FoEbFFq1R1F9Onh1IQJEPA9fE%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> %2Fwww.matronics.com
>> [1]%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107968109%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=CDiwbu5VruzkTCMLOi7x4vD94Ep3uu%2BPuUZ78bHwgys%3D&reserved=0
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>> %2Fwiki.matronics.com
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>> %2Fwww.matronics.com
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Subject: | Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam |
For info, Michel gave me a pair, and since that works perfectly, and
moreover the balancing of the carburettors is much more stable.
Happy new year
*Alain CHABERT*
e-mail : _alainchabert@wanadoo.fr_
Le 03/01/2021 13:17, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk a crit:
>
> Michel, I like your solution! Next time my cables give trouble I shall
> replace them with piano wire facon Auvray.
>
> Bon Annee, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
>
> On 2021-01-03 10:25, Michel AUVRAY wrote:
>
>> Hello Bud, I send to you my throttle cable solution operative since
>> 1999 without problem.
>> When I was made my second or third fly with my europa 145, I have the
>> same problem, the cables bend into the box !
>> Also I applied this radical solution. And I used this solution on
>> many others rotax engines.
>> If the spring is broken or inoperative, the piano wire performs the
>> function with great reliability.
>>
>> Lesam. 2 janv. 2021 17:51, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com
>> <mailto:budyerly@msn.com>> a crit:
>>
>> Ian,
>> I believe the Europa Club has a paper I did on throttle cable
>> installation on their site, it is also at
>> https://customflightcreations.com/techniques-articles/
>> <https://customflightcreations.com/techniques-articles/> (I don't
>> pay google any longer so type in the https://... to find the site
>> through all the paying ad customers.) If the cable bends in the
>> throttle box, it is generally not a lubrication problem or even a
>> sticky oil cable to sheath issue. It is a problem with the cable
>> installation, most likely a kinked or bound cable. Maintainers
>> unfamiliar with the Europa often look at the cables and are
>> appalled that they are loose and not firmly bound all along their
>> route to the carb. In their attempt for neatness, they bind the
>> cable(s) and cause them to bind. Builders also fail to get their
>> initial throttle box alignment correct to prevent the cable(s)
>> from cleanly entering the sheath from the throttle arm. I
>> recently scolded one of my clients for allowing a well known
>> Rotax repair facility touch his cable routing. The repairman
>> kinked the cables and bound them tightly. It was an older
>> Classic (20+ years old), so upon installation of his new cables,
>> all worked flawlessly again.
>>
>> Cables must be anchored and aligned properly on both ends and
>> frankly, the area in between must be loopy and only lightly
>> affixed to prevent interference in the wheel well of the mono.
>>
>> A new set of cables can be purchased, but still, the running of
>> the cables, the alignment in the home made throttle box and
>> fixation to the carby must be addressed.
>> To supplement my article on "Throttle and choke cable etiquette"
>> attached, please check the following:
>>
>> Prior to removing the cables to rebuild them to proper spec. one
>> can check that the cables are not kinked or tightly bound, the
>> cable binding nuts on the throttles are lubricated and free to
>> rotate, and the throttle box cable pivot points on the arm are
>> free to operate. (The only two points requiring lubrication are
>> this pivot on the throttle linkage and the box cable pivot
>> attachment in my opinion.) Look into the throttle box for proper
>> cable alignment. If issues are found, simply removing the
>> cable/throttle box to your nice warm workbench and correcting
>> issues is all that is needed. I find that if the cable itself is
>> kinked, or unraveled, it is best to replace the cables as it is
>> not worth the time. If the cable will not operate laid out on
>> the bench, it won't work in the plane. If you have to tug on a
>> cable in either direction to get it to move, you have a damaged
>> sheath. Remember, cable sheaths are just a coil of wire wrapped
>> around a nylon tube. If the winding is damaged, it squeezes the
>> inner liner, and the cable will not operate freely in the sheath.
>>
>> For me, the nylon sheath lined cables require no lube over a
>> lifetime. (Although I have used a graphite lube to ease
>> customers fears from the constant complaints of club
>> members/owners on this subject.) The sheath is lined with nylon,
>> coiled in stainless, then heat shrink over the top making a dirt
>> resistant sheath for the twisted wire cable. My old original
>> Classic cables from 1998 (I'm not sure if they were supplied by
>> Europa) were damaged by the original builder and were shortened
>> in length, but alas his technique was poor as the cable sheaths
>> were bent hard, the cable end cuts were smashed and the cable
>> attachments were misaligned in the throttle box. So there was
>> much to correct. Note that if supplied with an aftermarket or
>> original non lined sheath, they are best replaced as stainless
>> steel to stainless steel can lead to a corrosion problem
>> eventually. My 2005 supplied Europa cables have been good now
>> for 15+ years with only a single light lube of a Teflon or
>> graphite that was used during inspection (I can't remember what
>> lube I used on the cloth as I was more interested in corrosion of
>> the cables here in Florida). The reason I pulled my cables was
>> for an experiment during my rubber replacement at the 10 year
>> condition inspection, when I also chose to install a throttle
>> friction.
>>
>> Some owner/builders have done solid cables of wire, model
>> airplane nyrod push pull cables, and Zenith style solid rod to a
>> welded arm on the firewall that allows both throttles to be
>> actuated via a short push pull cable. All taking more time,
>> money and effort than simply following cable etiquette. Read
>> over the attached paper and check your cables for yourself.
>> Correct any issues, make sure it works on the bench with the
>> cables straight, then make a large loop and check again. After
>> install in the aircraft but not yet attached to the carb arm, the
>> cables should move freely. If the throttle cables worked on the
>> bench and not in the aircraft, you've pinched something. I've
>> found from winter to summer, from minus 10C to plus 40C the
>> cables work fine from Canada to Florida so they should work for you.
>>
>> Any cable of twisted wire, solid wire or plastic will do if you
>> can get the fittings right on the ends and aligned properly. In
>> experimentation, it takes a keen eye for detail, time, patience,
>> analysis and money to correct our new designs/mods and get them
>> working flawlessly.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Bud Yerly
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>> On Behalf Of MEE
>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 12:52 AM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com <mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Europa-List: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
>>
>> <mailto:macstar1224@gmail.com>>
>>
>> I had to abort a take-off due to poor acceleration and low
>> manifold pressure.
>> Problem was caused by one throttle cable sticking at just above
>> idle while the other at full throttle!
>> Even when the cable was lubricated it was still has high
>> friction. Looks like I need new cables. Think the cable system
>> needs expandable rubber boots to reduce the amount of grit that
>> must contaminate the cable runs.
>> Anyone else had this problem?
>>
>> --------
>> Ian McClelland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D499940%23499940&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107968109%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dVOlPJhn9HUqIQ8ni9%2FoEbFFq1R1F9Onh1IQJEPA9fE%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D499940%23499940&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107968109%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dVOlPJhn9HUqIQ8ni9%2FoEbFFq1R1F9Onh1IQJEPA9fE%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> %2Fwww.matronics.com
>> <http://2Fwww.matronics.com>%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107968109%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=CDiwbu5VruzkTCMLOi7x4vD94Ep3uu%2BPuUZ78bHwgys%3D&reserved=0
>> %2Fforums.matronics.com
>> <http://2Fforums.matronics.com>%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107978103%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=VdEBmsKWLU7vG7zO5biEjCExlAfd2%2BpfWMwFaSCAdSk%3D&reserved=0
>> %2Fwiki.matronics.com
>> <http://2Fwiki.matronics.com>%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107978103%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=XtSTu8URTp98OB%2Br4dTj3eN0O1mV5kFj78dEKeJH9FM%3D&reserved=0
>> %2Fwww.matronics.com
>> <http://2Fwww.matronics.com>%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107978103%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=5fySIFZoU%2FNmCCvxvy0ZV%2FBdtgwP7SAaW%2BzujWxPiV0%3D&reserved=0
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Message 7
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|
Subject: | Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam |
Fwiw, my classic=99s piano wire broke from fatigue (luckily during run
up). I replaced with teflon coated bicycle brake wire, and its perfect, free
, and trouble free.
Pete
C-GNPZ
> On Jan 3, 2021, at 7:25 AM, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Michel, I like your solution! Next time my cables give trouble I shall rep
lace them with piano wire =98facon Auvray=99.
>
> Bon Annee, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
>
>
>
>> On 2021-01-03 10:25, Michel AUVRAY wrote:
>>
>> Hello Bud, I send to you my throttle cable solution operative since 1999 w
ithout problem.
>> When I was made my second or third fly with my europa 145, I have the sam
e problem, the cables bend into the box !
>> Also I applied this radical solution. And I used this solution on many ot
hers rotax engines.
>> If the spring is broken or inoperative, the piano wire performs the funct
ion with great reliability.
>>
>> Le sam. 2 janv. 2021 =C3- 17:51, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> a =C3=A9c
rit :
>> Ian,
>> I believe the Europa Club has a paper I did on throttle cable installatio
n on their site, it is also at https://customflightcreations.com/techniques-
articles/ (I don't pay google any longer so type in the https://... to find t
he site through all the paying ad customers.) If the cable bends in the thr
ottle box, it is generally not a lubrication problem or even a sticky oil ca
ble to sheath issue. It is a problem with the cable installation, most like
ly a kinked or bound cable. Maintainers unfamiliar with the Europa often lo
ok at the cables and are appalled that they are loose and not firmly bound a
ll along their route to the carb. In their attempt for neatness, they bind t
he cable(s) and cause them to bind. Builders also fail to get their initial
throttle box alignment correct to prevent the cable(s) from cleanly enterin
g the sheath from the throttle arm. I recently scolded one of my clients fo
r allowing a well known Rotax repair facility touch his cable routing. The r
epairman kinked the cables and bound them tightly. It was an older Classic (
20+ years old), so upon installation of his new cables, all worked flawlessl
y again.
>>
>> Cables must be anchored and aligned properly on both ends and frankly, th
e area in between must be loopy and only lightly affixed to prevent interfer
ence in the wheel well of the mono.
>>
>> A new set of cables can be purchased, but still, the running of the cable
s, the alignment in the home made throttle box and fixation to the carby mus
t be addressed.
>> To supplement my article on "Throttle and choke cable etiquette" attached
, please check the following:
>>
>> Prior to removing the cables to rebuild them to proper spec. one can chec
k that the cables are not kinked or tightly bound, the cable binding nuts on
the throttles are lubricated and free to rotate, and the throttle box cable
pivot points on the arm are free to operate. (The only two points requirin
g lubrication are this pivot on the throttle linkage and the box cable pivot
attachment in my opinion.) Look into the throttle box for proper cable ali
gnment. If issues are found, simply removing the cable/throttle box to your
nice warm workbench and correcting issues is all that is needed. I find th
at if the cable itself is kinked, or unraveled, it is best to replace the ca
bles as it is not worth the time. If the cable will not operate laid out on
the bench, it won't work in the plane. If you have to tug on a cable in ei
ther direction to get it to move, you have a damaged sheath. Remember, cabl
e sheaths are just a coil of wire wrapped around a nylon tube. If the windi
ng is damaged, it squeezes the inner liner, and the cable will not operate f
reely in the sheath.
>>
>> For me, the nylon sheath lined cables require no lube over a lifetime. (
Although I have used a graphite lube to ease customers fears from the consta
nt complaints of club members/owners on this subject.) The sheath is lined w
ith nylon, coiled in stainless, then heat shrink over the top making a dirt r
esistant sheath for the twisted wire cable. My old original Classic cables f
rom 1998 (I'm not sure if they were supplied by Europa) were damaged by the o
riginal builder and were shortened in length, but alas his technique was poo
r as the cable sheaths were bent hard, the cable end cuts were smashed and t
he cable attachments were misaligned in the throttle box. So there was much
to correct. Note that if supplied with an aftermarket or original non line
d sheath, they are best replaced as stainless steel to stainless steel can l
ead to a corrosion problem eventually. My 2005 supplied Europa cables have b
een good now for 15+ years with only a single light lube of a Teflon or grap
hite that was used during inspection (I can't remember what lube I used on t
he cloth as I was more interested in corrosion of the cables here in Florida
). The reason I pulled my cables was for an experiment during my rubber rep
lacement at the 10 year condition inspection, when I also chose to install a
throttle friction.
>>
>> Some owner/builders have done solid cables of wire, model airplane nyrod p
ush pull cables, and Zenith style solid rod to a welded arm on the firewall t
hat allows both throttles to be actuated via a short push pull cable. All t
aking more time, money and effort than simply following cable etiquette. Re
ad over the attached paper and check your cables for yourself. Correct any i
ssues, make sure it works on the bench with the cables straight, then make a
large loop and check again. After install in the aircraft but not yet atta
ched to the carb arm, the cables should move freely. If the throttle cable
s worked on the bench and not in the aircraft, you've pinched something. I'
ve found from winter to summer, from minus 10C to plus 40C the cables work f
ine from Canada to Florida so they should work for you.
>>
>> Any cable of twisted wire, solid wire or plastic will do if you can get t
he fittings right on the ends and aligned properly. In experimentation, it t
akes a keen eye for detail, time, patience, analysis and money to correct ou
r new designs/mods and get them working flawlessly.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Bud Yerly
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@ma
tronics.com> On Behalf Of MEE
>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 12:52 AM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Europa-List: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
>>
>>
>> I had to abort a take-off due to poor acceleration and low manifold press
ure.
>> Problem was caused by one throttle cable sticking at just above idle whi
le the other at full throttle!
>> Even when the cable was lubricated it was still has high friction. Looks l
ike I need new cables. Think the cable system needs expandable rubber boots t
o reduce the amount of grit that must contaminate the cable runs.
>> Anyone else had this problem?
>>
>> --------
>> Ian McClelland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.
matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D499940%23499940&data=04%7C01%7C%7C
49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%
7C637451639107968109%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l
uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dVOlPJhn9HUqIQ8ni9%2Fo
EbFFq1R1F9Onh1IQJEPA9fE%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> %2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49
e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
637451639107968109%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=CDiwbu5VruzkTCMLOi7x4vD
94Ep3uu%2BPuUZ78bHwgys%3D&reserved=0
>> %2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508
d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107978103%7
CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=VdEBmsKWLU7vG7zO5biEjCExlAfd2%2BpfWMwFaSCAd
Sk%3D&reserved=0
>> %2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508d8
aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107978103%7CU
nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=XtSTu8URTp98OB%2Br4dTj3eN0O1mV5kFj78dEKeJH9FM
%3D&reserved=0
>> %2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e7224047004
2cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63745163910
7978103%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6
Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=5fySIFZoU%2FNmCCvxvy0ZV%2FBdtgwP7S
AaW%2BzujWxPiV0%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
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|
Subject: | Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam |
Pete
How did you do the throttle lever end? Or did you find the right size item
?
Will
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 08:34 Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
> Fwiw, my classic=99s piano wire broke from fatigue (luckily during
runup). I
> replaced with teflon coated bicycle brake wire, and its perfect, free, an
d
> trouble free.
>
> Pete
> C-GNPZ
>
> On Jan 3, 2021, at 7:25 AM, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
>
> Michel, I like your solution! Next time my cables give trouble I shall
> replace them with piano wire =98facon Auvray=99.
>
> Bon Annee, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
>
> On 2021-01-03 10:25, Michel AUVRAY wrote:
>
> Hello Bud, I send to you my throttle cable solution operative since 1999
> without problem.
> When I was made my second or third fly with my europa 145, I have the sam
e
> problem, the cables bend into the box !
> Also I applied this radical solution. And I used this solution on many
> others rotax engines.
> If the spring is broken or inoperative, the piano wire performs the
> function with great reliability.
>
> Le sam. 2 janv. 2021 =C3- 17:51, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> a =C3=A9c
rit :
>
> Ian,
> I believe the Europa Club has a paper I did on throttle cable installatio
n
> on their site, it is also at
> https://customflightcreations.com/techniques-articles/ (I don't pay
> google any longer so type in the https://... to find the site through all
> the paying ad customers.) If the cable bends in the throttle box, it is
> generally not a lubrication problem or even a sticky oil cable to sheath
> issue. It is a problem with the cable installation, most likely a kinked
> or bound cable. Maintainers unfamiliar with the Europa often look at the
> cables and are appalled that they are loose and not firmly bound all alon
g
> their route to the carb. In their attempt for neatness, they bind the
> cable(s) and cause them to bind. Builders also fail to get their initial
> throttle box alignment correct to prevent the cable(s) from cleanly
> entering the sheath from the throttle arm. I recently scolded one of my
> clients for allowing a well known Rotax repair facility touch his cable
> routing. The repairman kinked the cables and bound them tightly. It was
> an older Classic (20+ years old), so upon installation of his new cables,
> all worked flawlessly again.
>
> Cables must be anchored and aligned properly on both ends and frankly, th
e
> area in between must be loopy and only lightly affixed to prevent
> interference in the wheel well of the mono.
>
> A new set of cables can be purchased, but still, the running of the
> cables, the alignment in the home made throttle box and fixation to the
> carby must be addressed.
> To supplement my article on "Throttle and choke cable etiquette" attached
,
> please check the following:
>
> Prior to removing the cables to rebuild them to proper spec. one can chec
k
> that the cables are not kinked or tightly bound, the cable binding nuts o
n
> the throttles are lubricated and free to rotate, and the throttle box cab
le
> pivot points on the arm are free to operate. (The only two points
> requiring lubrication are this pivot on the throttle linkage and the box
> cable pivot attachment in my opinion.) Look into the throttle box for
> proper cable alignment. If issues are found, simply removing the
> cable/throttle box to your nice warm workbench and correcting issues is a
ll
> that is needed. I find that if the cable itself is kinked, or unraveled,
> it is best to replace the cables as it is not worth the time. If the cab
le
> will not operate laid out on the bench, it won't work in the plane. If y
ou
> have to tug on a cable in either direction to get it to move, you have a
> damaged sheath. Remember, cable sheaths are just a coil of wire wrapped
> around a nylon tube. If the winding is damaged, it squeezes the inner
> liner, and the cable will not operate freely in the sheath.
>
> For me, the nylon sheath lined cables require no lube over a lifetime.
> (Although I have used a graphite lube to ease customers fears from the
> constant complaints of club members/owners on this subject.) The sheath
is
> lined with nylon, coiled in stainless, then heat shrink over the top maki
ng
> a dirt resistant sheath for the twisted wire cable. My old original
> Classic cables from 1998 (I'm not sure if they were supplied by Europa)
> were damaged by the original builder and were shortened in length, but al
as
> his technique was poor as the cable sheaths were bent hard, the cable end
> cuts were smashed and the cable attachments were misaligned in the thrott
le
> box. So there was much to correct. Note that if supplied with an
> aftermarket or original non lined sheath, they are best replaced as
> stainless steel to stainless steel can lead to a corrosion problem
> eventually. My 2005 supplied Europa cables have been good now for 15+
> years with only a single light lube of a Teflon or graphite that was used
> during inspection (I can't remember what lube I used on the cloth as I wa
s
> more interested in corrosion of the cables here in Florida). The reason
I
> pulled my cables was for an experiment during my rubber replacement at th
e
> 10 year condition inspection, when I also chose to install a throttle
> friction.
>
> Some owner/builders have done solid cables of wire, model airplane nyrod
> push pull cables, and Zenith style solid rod to a welded arm on the
> firewall that allows both throttles to be actuated via a short push pull
> cable. All taking more time, money and effort than simply following cabl
e
> etiquette. Read over the attached paper and check your cables for
> yourself. Correct any issues, make sure it works on the bench with the
> cables straight, then make a large loop and check again. After install i
n
> the aircraft but not yet attached to the carb arm, the cables should mov
e
> freely. If the throttle cables worked on the bench and not in the
> aircraft, you've pinched something. I've found from winter to summer, fr
om
> minus 10C to plus 40C the cables work fine from Canada to Florida so they
> should work for you.
>
> Any cable of twisted wire, solid wire or plastic will do if you can get
> the fittings right on the ends and aligned properly. In experimentation,
> it takes a keen eye for detail, time, patience, analysis and money to
> correct our new designs/mods and get them working flawlessly.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of MEE
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 12:52 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
>
>
> I had to abort a take-off due to poor acceleration and low manifold
> pressure.
> Problem was caused by one throttle cable sticking at just above idle
> while the other at full throttle!
> Even when the cable was lubricated it was still has high friction. Looks
> like I need new cables. Think the cable system needs expandable rubber
> boots to reduce the amount of grit that must contaminate the cable runs.
> Anyone else had this problem?
>
> --------
> Ian McClelland
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.
matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D499940%23499940&data=04%7C01%7C%7
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9%2FoEbFFq1R1F9Onh1IQJEPA9fE%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> %2Fwww.matronics.com
> %2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508
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> %2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%
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>
Message 9
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|
Subject: | Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam |
Troy Maynor built it with a nice SS throttle box end, with a setscrew hole f
or the stranded wire. Setscrew+loctite works a treat. Requires heat to remov
e.
> On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:06 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> w
rote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Pete
> How did you do the throttle lever end? Or did you find the right size ite
m?
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> +1 786 878 0246
>
>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 08:34 Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>> Fwiw, my classic=99s piano wire broke from fatigue (luckily during r
unup). I replaced with teflon coated bicycle brake wire, and its perfect, fr
ee, and trouble free.
>>
>> Pete
>> C-GNPZ
>>
>>>> On Jan 3, 2021, at 7:25 AM, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote:
>>>>
>>> =EF=BB
>>> Michel, I like your solution! Next time my cables give trouble I shall r
eplace them with piano wire =98facon Auvray=99.
>>>
>>> Bon Annee, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2021-01-03 10:25, Michel AUVRAY wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Bud, I send to you my throttle cable solution operative since 199
9 without problem.
>>>> When I was made my second or third fly with my europa 145, I have the s
ame problem, the cables bend into the box !
>>>> Also I applied this radical solution. And I used this solution on many o
thers rotax engines.
>>>> If the spring is broken or inoperative, the piano wire performs the fun
ction with great reliability.
>>>>
>>>> Le sam. 2 janv. 2021 =C3- 17:51, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> a =C3=A9
crit :
>>>> Ian,
>>>> I believe the Europa Club has a paper I did on throttle cable installat
ion on their site, it is also at https://customflightcreations.com/technique
s-articles/ (I don't pay google any longer so type in the https://... to fin
d the site through all the paying ad customers.) If the cable bends in the t
hrottle box, it is generally not a lubrication problem or even a sticky oil c
able to sheath issue. It is a problem with the cable installation, most lik
ely a kinked or bound cable. Maintainers unfamiliar with the Europa often l
ook at the cables and are appalled that they are loose and not firmly bound a
ll along their route to the carb. In their attempt for neatness, they bind t
he cable(s) and cause them to bind. Builders also fail to get their initial
throttle box alignment correct to prevent the cable(s) from cleanly enterin
g the sheath from the throttle arm. I recently scolded one of my clients fo
r allowing a well known Rotax repair facility touch his cable routing. The r
epairman kinked the cables and bound them tightly. It was an older Classic (
20+ years old), so upon installation of his new cables, all worked flawlessl
y again.
>>>>
>>>> Cables must be anchored and aligned properly on both ends and frankly, t
he area in between must be loopy and only lightly affixed to prevent interfe
rence in the wheel well of the mono.
>>>>
>>>> A new set of cables can be purchased, but still, the running of the cab
les, the alignment in the home made throttle box and fixation to the carby m
ust be addressed.
>>>> To supplement my article on "Throttle and choke cable etiquette" attach
ed, please check the following:
>>>>
>>>> Prior to removing the cables to rebuild them to proper spec. one can ch
eck that the cables are not kinked or tightly bound, the cable binding nuts o
n the throttles are lubricated and free to rotate, and the throttle box cabl
e pivot points on the arm are free to operate. (The only two points requiri
ng lubrication are this pivot on the throttle linkage and the box cable pivo
t attachment in my opinion.) Look into the throttle box for proper cable al
ignment. If issues are found, simply removing the cable/throttle box to you
r nice warm workbench and correcting issues is all that is needed. I find t
hat if the cable itself is kinked, or unraveled, it is best to replace the c
ables as it is not worth the time. If the cable will not operate laid out o
n the bench, it won't work in the plane. If you have to tug on a cable in e
ither direction to get it to move, you have a damaged sheath. Remember, cab
le sheaths are just a coil of wire wrapped around a nylon tube. If the wind
ing is damaged, it squeezes the inner liner, and the cable will not operate f
reely in the sheath.
>>>>
>>>> For me, the nylon sheath lined cables require no lube over a lifetime.
(Although I have used a graphite lube to ease customers fears from the cons
tant complaints of club members/owners on this subject.) The sheath is line
d with nylon, coiled in stainless, then heat shrink over the top making a di
rt resistant sheath for the twisted wire cable. My old original Classic cab
les from 1998 (I'm not sure if they were supplied by Europa) were damaged by
the original builder and were shortened in length, but alas his technique w
as poor as the cable sheaths were bent hard, the cable end cuts were smashed
and the cable attachments were misaligned in the throttle box. So there wa
s much to correct. Note that if supplied with an aftermarket or original no
n lined sheath, they are best replaced as stainless steel to stainless steel
can lead to a corrosion problem eventually. My 2005 supplied Europa cables
have been good now for 15+ years with only a single light lube of a Teflon o
r graphite that was used during inspection (I can't remember what lube I use
d on the cloth as I was more interested in corrosion of the cables here in Fl
orida). The reason I pulled my cables was for an experiment during my rubbe
r replacement at the 10 year condition inspection, when I also chose to inst
all a throttle friction.
>>>>
>>>> Some owner/builders have done solid cables of wire, model airplane nyro
d push pull cables, and Zenith style solid rod to a welded arm on the firewa
ll that allows both throttles to be actuated via a short push pull cable. A
ll taking more time, money and effort than simply following cable etiquette.
Read over the attached paper and check your cables for yourself. Correct a
ny issues, make sure it works on the bench with the cables straight, then ma
ke a large loop and check again. After install in the aircraft but not yet a
ttached to the carb arm, the cables should move freely. If the throttle ca
bles worked on the bench and not in the aircraft, you've pinched something.
I've found from winter to summer, from minus 10C to plus 40C the cables wor
k fine from Canada to Florida so they should work for you.
>>>>
>>>> Any cable of twisted wire, solid wire or plastic will do if you can get
the fittings right on the ends and aligned properly. In experimentation, i
t takes a keen eye for detail, time, patience, analysis and money to correct
our new designs/mods and get them working flawlessly.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Bud Yerly
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@
matronics.com> On Behalf Of MEE
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 12:52 AM
>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had to abort a take-off due to poor acceleration and low manifold pre
ssure.
>>>> Problem was caused by one throttle cable sticking at just above idle w
hile the other at full throttle!
>>>> Even when the cable was lubricated it was still has high friction. Look
s like I need new cables. Think the cable system needs expandable rubber boo
ts to reduce the amount of grit that must contaminate the cable runs.
>>>> Anyone else had this problem?
>>>>
>>>> --------
>>>> Ian McClelland
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum
s.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D499940%23499940&data=04%7C01%7C%
7C49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
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2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dVOlPJhn9HUqIQ8ni9%
2FoEbFFq1R1F9Onh1IQJEPA9fE%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> %2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C
49e72240470042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%
7C637451639107968109%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l
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vD94Ep3uu%2BPuUZ78bHwgys%3D&reserved=0
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08d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107978103
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AdSk%3D&reserved=0
>>>> %2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470042cfdcd508
d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639107978103%7
CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=XtSTu8URTp98OB%2Br4dTj3eN0O1mV5kFj78dEKeJH9
FM%3D&reserved=0
>>>> %2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e72240470
042cfdcd508d8aee36e03%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637451639
107978103%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi
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7SAaW%2BzujWxPiV0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
Message 10
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Subject: | Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam |
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MA0KDQoNCg=
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/02/21 |
Following the information of a fatigue rupture on a 1.2 or 1.5 mm piano
wire there was an external damage on the piano wire itself because it is so
strong that pushing and pulling actions cannot not create a break. The
resistance of a CAP is 120 kg per mm=C2=B2 ie 135 kg for a diameter of 1.2
mm
and 212 kg for 1.5 mm=C2=B2. Even if the steel was of poor quality, for exa
mple
60 kg, the actions of pushing and pulling are not sufficient to cause it to
break, on top of that the piano wire is double! can be shear by a bolt ?
Le dim. 3 janv. 2021 =C3- 08:39, Europa-List Digest Server <
europa-list@matronics.com> a =C3=A9crit :
> *
>
> ========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
>
> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&
Chapter 21-01-02&Archive=Europa
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C
hapter 21-01-02&Archive=Europa
>
>
> ========================
=======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
=======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Europa-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 01/02/21: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:53 AM - Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
> (Richard Wheelwright)
> 2. 08:46 AM - Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
> (Bud Yerly)
> 3. 01:25 PM - Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
> (MEE)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:53:49 AM PST US
> From: Richard Wheelwright <rpwheelwright@yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
>
> I had a similar problem. If cables are oil/greased in time the lubricant
> eve
> ntually drys out and also picks up dust. And then will stick.
> To solve the problem I changed to solid cables. I sent my old cable to
> https
> ://www.cable-tec.co.uk/ who made me the new cables to the length
> required.
> There is s heat resistant grease that does not dry out, sorry I cannot
> reme
> mber what it was. But it has worked perfectly for about 4 years with no
> prob
> lems.
>
> Richard
>
> > On 2 Jan 2021, at 05:52, MEE <macstar1224@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I had to abort a take-off due to poor acceleration and low manifold
> pressu
> re.
> > Problem was caused by one throttle cable sticking at just above idle
> whil
> e the other at full throttle!
> > Even when the cable was lubricated it was still has high friction. Look
s
> l
> ike I need new cables. Think the cable system needs expandable rubber
> boots t
> o reduce the amount of grit that must contaminate the cable runs.
> > Anyone else had this problem?
> >
> > --------
> > Ian McClelland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499940#499940
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ========================
=
> ========
> ========================
=
> ========
> ========================
=
> ========
> ========================
=
> ========
> ========================
=
> ========
> >
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:46:12 AM PST US
> From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
>
> Ian,
> I believe the Europa Club has a paper I did on throttle cable installatio
n
> on their site, it is also at
> https://customflightcreations.com/techniques-a
> rticles/ <https://customflightcreations.com/techniques-articles/> (I
> don't pay google any longer so type in the https://... to find
> the site through all the paying ad customers.) If the cable bends in the
t
> hrottle box, it is generally not a lubrication problem or even a sticky o
il
> cable to sheath issue. It is a problem with the cable installation, mos
t
> likely a kinked or bound cable. Maintainers unfamiliar with the Europa o
ft
> en look at the cables and are appalled that they are loose and not firmly
b
> ound all along their route to the carb. In their attempt for neatness, t
he
> y bind the cable(s) and cause them to bind. Builders also fail to get th
ei
> r initial throttle box alignment correct to prevent the cable(s) from cle
an
> ly entering the sheath from the throttle arm. I recently scolded one of
my
> clients for allowing a well known Rotax repair facility touch his cable
ro
> uting. The repairman kinked the cables and bound them tightly. It was a
n
> older Classic (20+ years old), so upon installation of his new cables, al
l
> worked flawlessly again.
>
> Cables must be anchored and aligned properly on both ends and frankly, th
e
> area in between must be loopy and only lightly affixed to prevent interfe
re
> nce in the wheel well of the mono.
>
> A new set of cables can be purchased, but still, the running of the cable
s,
> the alignment in the home made throttle box and fixation to the carby mu
st
> be addressed.
> To supplement my article on "Throttle and choke cable etiquette" attached
,
> please check the following:
>
> Prior to removing the cables to rebuild them to proper spec. one can chec
k
> that the cables are not kinked or tightly bound, the cable binding nuts o
n
> the throttles are lubricated and free to rotate, and the throttle box cab
le
> pivot points on the arm are free to operate. (The only two points requi
ri
> ng lubrication are this pivot on the throttle linkage and the box cable p
iv
> ot attachment in my opinion.) Look into the throttle box for proper cabl
e
> alignment. If issues are found, simply removing the cable/throttle box t
o
> your nice warm workbench and correcting issues is all that is needed. I
fi
> nd that if the cable itself is kinked, or unraveled, it is best to replac
e
> the cables as it is not worth the time. If the cable will not operate la
id
> out on the bench, it won't work in the plane. If you have to tug on a c
ab
> le in either direction to get it to move, you have a damaged sheath. Rem
em
> ber, cable sheaths are just a coil of wire wrapped around a nylon tube.
If
> the winding is damaged, it squeezes the inner liner, and the cable will
no
> t operate freely in the sheath.
>
> For me, the nylon sheath lined cables require no lube over a lifetime. (
Al
> though I have used a graphite lube to ease customers fears from the const
an
> t complaints of club members/owners on this subject.) The sheath is line
d
> with nylon, coiled in stainless, then heat shrink over the top making a d
ir
> t resistant sheath for the twisted wire cable. My old original Classic c
ab
> les from 1998 (I'm not sure if they were supplied by Europa) were damaged
b
> y the original builder and were shortened in length, but alas his techniq
ue
> was poor as the cable sheaths were bent hard, the cable end cuts were sm
as
> hed and the cable attachments were misaligned in the throttle box. So th
er
> e was much to correct. Note that if supplied with an aftermarket or orig
in
> al non lined sheath, they are best replaced as stainless steel to stainle
ss
> steel can lead to a corrosion problem eventually. My 2005 supplied Euro
pa
> cables have been good now for 15+ years with only a single light lube of
a
> Teflon or graphite that was used during inspection (I can't remember wha
t
> lube I used on the cloth as I was more interested in corrosion of the cab
le
> s here in Florida). The reason I pulled my cables was for an experiment
du
> ring my rubber replacement at the 10 year condition inspection, when I al
so
> chose to install a throttle friction.
>
> Some owner/builders have done solid cables of wire, model airplane nyrod
pu
> sh pull cables, and Zenith style solid rod to a welded arm on the firewal
l
> that allows both throttles to be actuated via a short push pull cable. A
ll
> taking more time, money and effort than simply following cable etiquette
.
> Read over the attached paper and check your cables for yourself. Correc
t
> any issues, make sure it works on the bench with the cables straight, the
n
> make a large loop and check again. After install in the aircraft but not
y
> et attached to the carb arm, the cables should move freely. If the thro
tt
> le cables worked on the bench and not in the aircraft, you've pinched som
et
> hing. I've found from winter to summer, from minus 10C to plus 40C the c
ab
> les work fine from Canada to Florida so they should work for you.
>
> Any cable of twisted wire, solid wire or plastic will do if you can get t
he
> fittings right on the ends and aligned properly. In experimentation, it
t
> akes a keen eye for detail, time, patience, analysis and money to correct
o
> ur new designs/mods and get them working flawlessly.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> <owner-europa-list-server@matr
> onics.com> On Behalf Of MEE
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 12:52 AM
> Subject: Europa-List: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
>
>
> I had to abort a take-off due to poor acceleration and low manifold press
ur
> e.
> Problem was caused by one throttle cable sticking at just above idle whi
le
> the other at full throttle!
> Even when the cable was lubricated it was still has high friction. Looks
li
> ke I need new cables. Think the cable system needs expandable rubber boot
s
> to reduce the amount of grit that must contaminate the cable runs.
> Anyone else had this problem?
>
> --------
> Ian McClelland
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.
ma
> tronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D499940%23499940&data=04%7C01%7C%7
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>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:25:05 PM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa XS Mono Throttle cable friction and jam
> From: "MEE" <macstar1224@gmail.com>
>
>
> That's really helpful information.
> Thanks Bud
>
> --------
> Ian McClelland
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499943#499943
>
>
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