Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:18 AM - Side-slipping the Europa? (clivesutton)
2. 02:03 AM - Re: Re: Fuel stabilising (Pete Jeffers)
3. 06:37 AM - Europa Kit for sale Additional info (Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden)
4. 07:29 AM - Re: Side-slipping the Europa? (Bud Yerly)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: Side-slipping the Europa? (D McFadyean)
6. 08:03 AM - Re: Side-slipping the Europa? (clivesutton)
7. 11:47 AM - Europa Club lauching "Tech Talks" (italianjon)
8. 12:45 PM - Re: Side-slipping the Europa? (rparigoris)
9. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: Side-slipping the Europa? (Bud Yerly)
10. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Side-slipping the Europa? (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
11. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: Side-slipping the Europa? (Pete Zut)
12. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Side-slipping the Europa? (Pete Zut)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Side-slipping the Europa? |
I use side-slipping occasionally on final approaches/flapped. It can be a very
useful way to lose altitude more quickly than usual.
But I can't find anything in the Mono owners manual on best practice/limits for
side-slipping - can anyone enlighten me? Specifically:
1) Could/should one side-slip right down to stall+5kts?
2) Are there side-slip performance differences between Mono and Tri-Gear?
3) Are there any side-slipping 'gotchas' that i should be aware of?
Clive Sutton
G-YETI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500721#500721
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Fuel stabilising |
Please anyone in the UK running their aircraft on a LAA permit do NOT add
additives as suggested below. It could invalidate your Permit and your
insurance company may also rebel, . It may work but is not approved for use
in the UK
Pete Jeffers LAA inspector rep to The Europa Club
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PCahill
Sent: 15 February 2021 23:51
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel stabilising
I add 2 grams of BHT (food grade butylated hydroxytoluene) anti-oxidant per
5 gallons ethanol-free mogas anytime I don't immediately use the fuel.
BHT is readily available on eBay (much cheaper than Sta-bil and possibly the
same stuff, but without all the petroleum distillates that I don't want).
BHT dissolves instantly in mogas.
This is about 2 grams per 2700 gm of fuel, or 0.07%, or about 0.7 ppt. Not
very much! Possibly not even enough anti-oxidant for all applications. My
goal is to mitigate the formation of gums or gummy deposits in the carbs.
Many years ago I used small amounts of BHT for the same purpose in a
hydrocarbon-based rocket fuel for the US Air Force.
stevenwpitt(at)me.com wrote:
> I know it may be a bit late this season but what do owners use to
stabilise their fuel during the winter?
> I know of Sta-bil in the USA for motor vehicles but not sure what to use
on my Rotax 912S here in the UK.
> Thanks in anticipation.
> Steve Pitt
> G-SMDH
>
> Sent from my iPad
--------
N914TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500716#500716
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Europa Kit for sale Additional info |
Sorry folks, I forgot to list my location in the details. I am located
in Bristol, Virginia.
Vaughn Teegarden
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Side-slipping the Europa? |
Clive,
1. It is never prudent to sideslip down to the stall as an obvious spin wi
ll result. Final approach for a fully flapped approach of 1.3 stall (nomin
ally 60 Knots IAS) would be the prudent limit of a side slip airspeed. In
flight testing of mono and trigear, I side slip at 60 knots with a great bo
ot of rudder, but there are limitations applicable to any aircraft. Operat
ionally there is no requirement to excessively side slip an aircraft below
final approach speed.
2. No figures have been published on the added rate of descent from a side
slip.
3. The Gotchas' are:
Side slips approaching the stall will cause the receding wi
ng to stall quickly leading to a rapid roll and if aft stick and rudder are
held as the aircraft departs, a spin will result. UNLOAD FOR CONTROL IMME
DIATELY ON DEPARTURE FROM CONTROLLED FLIGHT!
Most aircraft in level flight near approach speed can blank
the tail plane if full rudder is applied. Again, at a safe altitude (3 mi
stakes high) one can get the full effect by simply slowing to about 70 knot
s, maintain level flight and add rudder until the stop. Allow the
speed to bleed and as more up elevator/stabilator is added the rudder/fin a
nd fuselage blanks one of the stabs. The blanked stab will lose its downfo
rce causing a rapid unloading of the aircraft and nose down pitch atti
tude ensues. In some aircraft it is quite violent and unexpected (RV-8s wi
ll bounce your head off the canopy). In a side slip using full rudder the
aircraft is somewhat unloaded as level flight is not being maintained and l
arge amounts of up elevator/stab are not being used to maintain level
flight so this unloading due to stab blanking is not experienced.
(When talking airspeed control, one must have his airspeed indicating syste
m verified and calibrated. Flight test and corrections to the airspeed are
necessary or you are talking apples to oranges. The Europa pitot/static t
ube on the XS is quite accurate when coupled to a properly indicating airsp
eed indicator normally, but calibration is still required.)
In my experience, side slips are used to correct errors in judgement. Norm
ally due to my lax attention to airspeed sometimes I am forced to bleed off
the excess on final if I don't want to float excessively. If at 70 Knots
trying to get to 60, one must understand that the Europa is very clean and
additional side slip does not give me a gratifying immediate response to be
ing too fast while holding glide path. Also, if the pattern is tight, side
slipping while trying to maintain a steeper than normal (2.5-3 degree) gli
de path, I find speed and altitude reduction is not comfortably fast in a s
ideslip. When going into a field that is shorter and the approach is guard
ed by high trees, I do side slip as the Europa will build speed quickly if
quickly unloaded after crossing the trees to establish an aimpoint near the
threshold (especially with a course propeller pitch). I find a side slip
at 60 with about half rudder displacement gives a comfortable 5 degree glid
e slope if memory serves. It allows me to cross the threshold at a very co
ntrollable speed to allow me to establish the landing attitude with gratify
ing results.
The stabilized approach and adherence to airspeed control is a far better a
nswer than side slipping with reckless abandon ( as I am sometimes forced i
nto due to lack of attention). Personally, 80KIAS on downwind abeam touchd
own. Apply full flaps, maintain 75 KIAS during the base leg/turn to final.
Bleed off airspeed to 60KIAS during the rollout to final with pitch and p
ower set. Maintain 60 KIAS until passing the field boundary. Reduce power
, and adjust aimpoint and allow for a slight speed reduction to cross the t
hreshold a few feet high at 55KIAS and the float is easy to control while s
ettling into the ground effect area. Float is about 500 feet on a hot day
over a hard surface.
Power control is essential. I teach that if you lower the nose (push over
to shorten the aimpoint) one must pull the power back immediately or an ins
tant 5 knots is gained. "If you push over, pull the power" seems to work w
ell with my clients. On short field landings, I slow to cross the fence st
abilized at 55KIAS with power on and bleed the rate of descent and speed to
cross the threshold with a decreasing speed and a controllable rate of des
cent to a firm touchdown. I only float a couple hundred feet max past the
threshold and am stopping in 600 to a 1000 feet on a hard surface. If forc
ed to a steep approach over trees or dikes, to the landing zone, I find slo
wing a bit more to 55 gives a sink that is significantly greater than 60KIA
S, which allows me to concentrate on a wings level approach, but the 55 kno
t steep near idle power approach also limits the amount of time to arrest t
he sink rate, and establish the flare. On grass strips with trees or power
lines I tend to hold 60 until over the lines, then reduce power, lower the
nose, sideslip a bit to drop in a bit quicker and use the extra speed to a
rrest the steep descent which bleeds the speed to 55 knots anyway and then
go for the landing attitude.
When I really screw the approach I just go around and get my stuff together
. If I've never landed on a field before or the conditions are not favorab
le for mistakes, I tend to do a very low approach (drag the field in a slow
flight) sizing up the landing zone and wind conditions before making my ap
proach and landing for real. I look for a point where a safe go around can
be accomplished if I screw the approach to landing. That makes the final
a very comfortable skilled looking landing and uneventful roll out.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of clivesutton
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 4:18 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Side-slipping the Europa?
mailto:clive.maf@googlemail.com>>
I use side-slipping occasionally on final approaches/flapped. It can be a
very useful way to lose altitude more quickly than usual.
But I can't find anything in the Mono owners manual on best practice/limits
for side-slipping - can anyone enlighten me? Specifically:
1) Could/should one side-slip right down to stall+5kts?
2) Are there side-slip performance differences between Mono and Tri-Gear?
3) Are there any side-slipping 'gotchas' that i should be aware of?
Clive Sutton
G-YETI
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.ma
tronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D500721%23500721&data=04%7C01%7C%7C8
4e533f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%
7C637490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2
luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=oBzCUM8Inbe%2BPC58u
q%2B3jScWrfJoxLVufqk2wrgF0Rc%3D&reserved=0
%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e5
33f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
37490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=56a0uH04SXaCNvK6D8bFLd
3Crg9fv%2BEOqg%2B9PM6n0PE%3D&reserved=0
%2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8
d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7C
Unknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=QxBCFyXSrAeiWkXLU81om5sHLz5o%2B4yxfBvkHoog
3FE%3D&reserved=0
%2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8d2
5c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7CUn
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=wvvFgPj29ErlAi6y4i0rBkXjcLMHk9zLFbaWGWVR08g%
3D&reserved=0
%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3
931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151
030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6
Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata37wiklW59FtG%2FKGHAeC2BFWk4k3KV
N9K6gYbLvsfA%3D&reserved=0
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Side-slipping the Europa? |
Any views (anyone) of the differences of stall and/or spin behaviour in ground
effect (I.e. within one-wing span height of the ground)?
Either theoretical or actual.
Duncan McF
> On 16 February 2021 at 15:28 Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Clive,
>
> 1. It is never prudent to sideslip down to the stall as an obvious spin
will result. Final approach for a fully flapped approach of 1.3 stall (nominally
60 Knots IAS) would be the prudent limit of a side slip airspeed. In flight
testing of mono and trigear, I side slip at 60 knots with a great boot of rudder,
but there are limitations applicable to any aircraft. Operationally there
is no requirement to excessively side slip an aircraft below final approach
speed.
>
> 2. No figures have been published on the added rate of descent from a sideslip.
>
> 3. The Gotchas' are:
>
> Side slips approaching the stall will cause the receding
wing to stall quickly leading to a rapid roll and if aft stick and rudder are
held as the aircraft departs, a spin will result. UNLOAD FOR CONTROL IMMEDIATELY
ON DEPARTURE FROM CONTROLLED FLIGHT!
>
> Most aircraft in level flight near approach speed can blank
the tail plane if full rudder is applied. Again, at a safe altitude (3 mistakes
high) one can get the full effect by simply slowing to about 70 knots, maintain
level flight and add rudder until the stop. Allow the speed to
bleed and as more up elevator/stabilator is added the rudder/fin and fuselage
blanks one of the stabs. The blanked stab will lose its downforce causing a
rapid unloading of the aircraft and nose down pitch attitude ensues. In
some aircraft it is quite violent and unexpected (RV-8s will bounce your head
off the canopy). In a side slip using full rudder the aircraft is somewhat unloaded
as level flight is not being maintained and large amounts of up
elevator/stab are not being used to maintain level flight so this unloading due
to stab blanking is not experienced.
>
>
>
> (When talking airspeed control, one must have his airspeed indicating system
verified and calibrated. Flight test and corrections to the airspeed are
necessary or you are talking apples to oranges. The Europa pitot/static tube
on the XS is quite accurate when coupled to a properly indicating airspeed indicator
normally, but calibration is still required.)
>
>
>
> In my experience, side slips are used to correct errors in judgement. Normally
due to my lax attention to airspeed sometimes I am forced to bleed off
the excess on final if I don't want to float excessively. If at 70 Knots trying
to get to 60, one must understand that the Europa is very clean and additional
side slip does not give me a gratifying immediate response to being too fast
while holding glide path. Also, if the pattern is tight, side slipping while
trying to maintain a steeper than normal (2.5-3 degree) glide path, I find
speed and altitude reduction is not comfortably fast in a sideslip. When going
into a field that is shorter and the approach is guarded by high trees, I do
side slip as the Europa will build speed quickly if quickly unloaded after crossing
the trees to establish an aimpoint near the threshold (especially with
a course propeller pitch). I find a side slip at 60 with about half rudder displacement
gives a comfortable 5 degree glide slope i
f memory serves. It allows me to cross the threshold at a very controllable speed
to allow me to establish the landing attitude with gratifying results.
>
>
>
> The stabilized approach and adherence to airspeed control is a far better
answer than side slipping with reckless abandon ( as I am sometimes forced into
due to lack of attention). Personally, 80KIAS on downwind abeam touchdown.
Apply full flaps, maintain 75 KIAS during the base leg/turn to final. Bleed
off airspeed to 60KIAS during the rollout to final with pitch and power set.
Maintain 60 KIAS until passing the field boundary. Reduce power, and adjust
aimpoint and allow for a slight speed reduction to cross the threshold a few feet
high at 55KIAS and the float is easy to control while settling into the ground
effect area. Float is about 500 feet on a hot day over a hard surface.
>
>
>
> Power control is essential. I teach that if you lower the nose (push over
to shorten the aimpoint) one must pull the power back immediately or an instant
5 knots is gained. "If you push over, pull the power" seems to work well
with my clients. On short field landings, I slow to cross the fence stabilized
at 55KIAS with power on and bleed the rate of descent and speed to cross the
threshold with a decreasing speed and a controllable rate of descent to a firm
touchdown. I only float a couple hundred feet max past the threshold and am
stopping in 600 to a 1000 feet on a hard surface. If forced to a steep approach
over trees or dikes, to the landing zone, I find slowing a bit more to 55
gives a sink that is significantly greater than 60KIAS, which allows me to concentrate
on a wings level approach, but the 55 knot steep near idle power approach
also limits the amount of time to arrest the sink rate, and establish the
flare. On grass strips with trees or power lines I
tend to hold 60 until over the lines, then reduce power, lower the nose, sideslip
a bit to drop in a bit quicker and use the extra speed to arrest the steep
descent which bleeds the speed to 55 knots anyway and then go for the landing
attitude.
>
>
>
> When I really screw the approach I just go around and get my stuff together.
If I've never landed on a field before or the conditions are not favorable
for mistakes, I tend to do a very low approach (drag the field in a slow flight)
sizing up the landing zone and wind conditions before making my approach
and landing for real. I look for a point where a safe go around can be accomplished
if I screw the approach to landing. That makes the final a very comfortable
skilled looking landing and uneventful roll out.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bud Yerly
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of clivesutton
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 4:18 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Side-slipping the Europa?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I use side-slipping occasionally on final approaches/flapped. It can be
a very useful way to lose altitude more quickly than usual.
>
>
>
> But I can't find anything in the Mono owners manual on best practice/limits
for side-slipping - can anyone enlighten me? Specifically:
>
>
>
> 1) Could/should one side-slip right down to stall+5kts?
>
> 2) Are there side-slip performance differences between Mono and Tri-Gear?
>
> 3) Are there any side-slipping 'gotchas' that i should be aware of?
>
>
>
>
>
> Clive Sutton
>
> G-YETI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D500721%23500721&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=oBzCUM8Inbe%2BPC58uq%2B3jScWrfJoxLVufqk2wrgF0Rc%3D&reserved=0
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D500721%23500721&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=oBzCUM8Inbe%2BPC58uq%2B3jScWrfJoxLVufqk2wrgF0Rc%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
>
> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=56a0uH04SXaCNvK6D8bFLd3Crg9fv%2BEOqg%2B9PM6n0PE%3D&reserved=0 https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=56a0uH04SXaCNvK6D8bFLd3Crg9fv%2BEOqg%2B9PM6n0PE%3D&reserved=0
>
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=QxBCFyXSrAeiWkXLU81om5sHLz5o%2B4yxfBvkHoog3FE%3D&reserved=0
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=QxBCFyXSrAeiWkXLU81om5sHLz5o%2B4yxfBvkHoog3FE%3D&reserved=0
>
> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>
> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=wvvFgPj29ErlAi6y4i0rBkXjcLMHk9zLFbaWGWVR08g%3D&reserved=0
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=wvvFgPj29ErlAi6y4i0rBkXjcLMHk9zLFbaWGWVR08g%3D&reserved=0
>
> - List Contribution Web Site -
>
>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata37wiklW59FtG%2FKGHAeC2BFWk4k3KVN9K6gYbLvsfA%3D&reserved=0 https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C84e533f065974e3931d708d8d25c4ccd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637490641151030538%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata37wiklW59FtG%2FKGHAeC2BFWk4k3KVN9K6gYbLvsfA%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Side-slipping the Europa? |
Hi Bud,
As always, a full and easy-read answer, thanks and all your cautions acknowledged.
Ivan gave me a similar steer off-BB - suggesting about 1.3 x VSo which for
me would be ~56Kt with a proven flapped stall of 43Kt. So i will mentally note
the ideal to be ~60kt (so holding a bit of a margin for speed errors), and
not side-slip at speeds lower than that in the course of my handling practice.
I agree fully that they are a bit of a "correction maneuver" and whilst i don't
use them routinely, there are a few situations (like forced power-off landings
or where a go-around is especially tricky etc) where they could be very
helpful.
Best regards,
Clive.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500729#500729
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Europa Club lauching "Tech Talks" |
Dear Non-Europa Club Members in this group,
The Europa Club, on Thursday is launching a new regular event, our "Tech Talk"
series. Members are free to propose, prepare and present on interesting topics.
This Thursday 18th Feb, at 19:30 UTC on Zoom, two of our members will be presenting
Night and IFR Operations in the Europa.
A member based in the US will be talking about Night and IFR under the FAA Regulations,
and a UK based member, who was the first to obtain the LAA sign-off for
Night and IFR on a Europa, will be talking about the experience in gaining
the required sign-offs.
I have decided to offer this event to non-club members as a one-off gesture towards
showcasing some of the benefits of club membership. Our numbers are currently
at record high, and we'd love to welcome more members into the club and grow
the membership community further.
If you are interested, please email either, myself, at [b]chairman@theeuropaclub.org[/b],
or our club secretary, Bob Hitchcock, at [b]secretary@theeuropaclub.org[/b]
and we will forward the Zoom session details for you to join us.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500730#500730
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ifr_talk_screenshot_160221_135.jpg
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Side-slipping the Europa? |
Hi Bud Great info as always, thank you. Few more questions about slipping, specifically
on 914 Mono XS: Does airspeed work pretty good in both left and right
side slips with airspeed/pitot in factory position? Mono with gear and airbrake
slots not covered, what's the best way to get exhaust into the cockpit? As
far as power setting, left or right slip? Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500731#500731
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Side-slipping the Europa? |
Ron,
By the design of the static port on the XS a side slip has little effect on
the static like in many fuselage mounted static ports so the airspeed does
not jump around slipping right or left. Even on IFR aircraft I use the st
atic port but I also install a cabin alternate static when called for. As
I've said in other documents, in my experience the cockpit static is less t
han 2 knots and 25 feet from stall speed to cruise.
The best way to get exhaust smell into the cockpit is actually placing a ve
nt where shown on the side of the aircraft tunnel near the pilots knee. Mo
ve the air inlet up to near the bond line or leave the long tail pipe becau
se at speeds from 75 to 90 in a climb the exhaust comes right into mine due
to the short stack. I can even see a small amount of soot tracking from m
y exhaust pipe up over the wing and directly into my NACA. I am forced to
fly with my pilot side NACA vent closed all the time except at cruise. NAS
TY!
[cid:image001.png@01D70481.DF049230]
Mono exhaust with the 912/914 XS exhaust with the proper sized exhaust down
pipe seems to work fine avoiding any exhaust smell during pattern work and
side slips. The Jabiru and Classic aircraft exhaust is normally through t
he exit duct right down or nearly down the centerline and can enter the whe
el well. The Jabiru Trigear is not a problem. The 912 Classic with the ex
haust angled down and to the side seems to be OK also. At cruise there is
quite a bit of air that comes through the gear handle and brake during crui
se. But I have not seen the CO monitor ever alarm or smell exhaust. It ju
st gets cold on the hands at high cruise altitudes, but then again, I'm fro
m Florida. 72F is cold for me.
Hopefully, other mono owners will have other ideas on sealing the mono. A
small gap and a simple smoothing fairing around the wheel that laps the bel
ly would be enough I would think. However, one should use caution on insta
lling fairings on the gear as the fairing must not interfere with retractio
n or extension. I'd hate to fly in the winter with slush in my gear door f
reezing and locking my gear up. That's part of that 20,000 compromises we
make.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of rparigoris
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 3:45 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Side-slipping the Europa?
o:rparigor@hotmail.com>>
Hi Bud Great info as always, thank you. Few more questions about slipping,
specifically on 914 Mono XS: Does airspeed work pretty good in both left an
d right side slips with airspeed/pitot in factory position? Mono with gear
and airbrake slots not covered, what's the best way to get exhaust into the
cockpit? As far as power setting, left or right slip? Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.ma
tronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D500731%23500731&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd
9a4b28f3134488e603708d8d2bf56ec%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%
7C637491066553641061%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2
luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=8LaY3%2BHi35FZvpqDk
Ib%2B2JPMme2CyTL6KH%2FvjfgzIm0%3D&reserved=0
%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9a4
b28f3134488e603708d8d2bf56ec%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
37491066553641061%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=eB3yjBeVqFtgC2ruVuYwGF
QehiNSPVSqEXEldJlvRX8%3D&reserved=0
%2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9a4b28f3134488e603708d8
d2bf56ec%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637491066553641061%7C
Unknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=z5PudX%2FE3iyi5H9ZDOoL%2BhYNf2nPRrfmaU%2Fp
a6Fs32g%3D&reserved=0
%2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9a4b28f3134488e603708d8d2
bf56ec%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637491066553651055%7CUn
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=gbetY%2BHra4a%2B04FGQ3paoorfKyBgkQbNVWL%2FEn
Tsxb4%3D&reserved=0
%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9a4b28f3134488
e603708d8d2bf56ec%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637491066553
651055%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6
Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Y1TkG5Vl9US5jMrz5eFeIkpw4xC1MSXHd
m5kixBS9ho%3D&reserved=0
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Side-slipping the Europa? |
Ron and Clive, Bud has as ever given excellent answers, but perhaps I
can add a bit. Firstly I would always side slip with Right rudder in a
Europa as you then have excellent view ahead assuming you are in the
Left hand seat, whereas left rudder slips restrict your view
considerably. I find full right rudder side slipping at 60 kts very
stable, easy to control and easy to straighten and it will produce
1000fpm descent instead of the 550 fpm in a straight 60kt idling
approach. I personally deliberately approach high on a PFL and then burn
off the extra height by sideslipping to allow for the possibility that
you have hit a strong wind gradient and dropped well below your original
aiming point. - how often do you find yourself having to put in a burst
of power at around 200ft if you are aiming to touch down on the piano
keys?
Wouldn't it be great to be able to get our planes out and go flying?
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2021-02-16 20:45, rparigoris wrote:
>
> Hi Bud Great info as always, thank you. Few more questions about
> slipping, specifically on 914 Mono XS: Does airspeed work pretty good
> in both left and right side slips with airspeed/pitot in factory
> position? Mono with gear and airbrake slots not covered, what's the
> best way to get exhaust into the cockpit? As far as power setting, left
> or right slip? Ron P.
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500731#500731
>
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Side-slipping the Europa? |
as always, Bud's insights are great!
that said, FWIW, my classic's gear slot is absolutely, definitely negative
pressure wrt to the cabin, proved by repeated tests with paper and fabric
getting sucked onto the slots.
I believe most of the ingress of any exhaust in my ship is through the flap
drive slots, when they are extended.
Cheers,
Pete
On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 4:49 PM Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
> Ron,
>
> By the design of the static port on the XS a side slip has little effect
> on the static like in many fuselage mounted static ports so the airspeed
> does not jump around slipping right or left. Even on IFR aircraft I use
> the static port but I also install a cabin alternate static when called
> for. As I've said in other documents, in my experience the cockpit
> static is less than 2 knots and 25 feet from stall speed to cruise.
>
>
> The best way to get exhaust smell into the cockpit is actually placing a
> vent where shown on the side of the aircraft tunnel near the pilots knee.
> Move the air inlet up to near the bond line or leave the long tail pipe
> because at speeds from 75 to 90 in a climb the exhaust comes right into
> mine due to the short stack. I can even see a small amount of soot
> tracking from my exhaust pipe up over the wing and directly into my NACA.
> I am forced to fly with my pilot side NACA vent closed all the time excep
t
> at cruise. NASTY!
>
>
> Mono exhaust with the 912/914 XS exhaust with the proper sized exhaust
> down pipe seems to work fine avoiding any exhaust smell during pattern wo
rk
> and side slips. The Jabiru and Classic aircraft exhaust is normally
> through the exit duct right down or nearly down the centerline and can
> enter the wheel well. The Jabiru Trigear is not a problem. The 912
> Classic with the exhaust angled down and to the side seems to be OK also.
> At cruise there is quite a bit of air that comes through the gear handle
> and brake during cruise. But I have not seen the CO monitor ever alarm
> or smell exhaust. It just gets cold on the hands at high cruise
> altitudes, but then again, I'm from Florida. 72F is cold for me.
>
>
> Hopefully, other mono owners will have other ideas on sealing the mono.
A
> small gap and a simple smoothing fairing around the wheel that laps the
> belly would be enough I would think. However, one should use caution on
> installing fairings on the gear as the fairing must not interfere with
> retraction or extension. I'd hate to fly in the winter with slush in my
> gear door freezing and locking my gear up. That's part of that 20,000
> compromises we make.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bud Yerly
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of rparigoris
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 3:45 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Side-slipping the Europa?
>
>
>
>
> Hi Bud Great info as always, thank you. Few more questions about
> slipping, specifically on 914 Mono XS: Does airspeed work pretty good in
> both left and right side slips with airspeed/pitot in factory position?
> Mono with gear and airbrake slots not covered, what's the best way to get
> exhaust into the cockpit? As far as power setting, left or right slip? Ro
n
> P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.
matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D500731%23500731&data=04%7C01%7C%7
Cd9a4b28f3134488e603708d8d2bf56ec%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
0%7C637491066553641061%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoi
V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=8LaY3%2BHi35FZvpq
DkIb%2B2JPMme2CyTL6KH%2FvjfgzIm0%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
>
> -->
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mat
ronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9a4b28f313448
8e603708d8d2bf56ec%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63749106655
3641061%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI
6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=eB3yjBeVqFtgC2ruVuYwGFQehiNSPVSq
EXEldJlvRX8%3D&reserved=0
>
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
> -->
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.
matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9a4b28f3134488e603708d8d2bf56ec%7
C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637491066553641061%7CUnknown%7C
TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
%3D%7C1000&sdata=z5PudX%2FE3iyi5H9ZDOoL%2BhYNf2nPRrfmaU%2Fpa6Fs32g%3D
&reserved=0
>
> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>
> -->
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.ma
tronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9a4b28f3134488e603708d8d2bf56ec%7C8
4df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637491066553651055%7CUnknown%7CTW
FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3
D%7C1000&sdata=gbetY%2BHra4a%2B04FGQ3paoorfKyBgkQbNVWL%2FEnTsxb4%3D&a
mp;reserved=0
>
> - List Contribution Web Site -
>
>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
> -->
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mat
ronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9a4b28f3134488e603708d8d
2bf56ec%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637491066553651055%7CU
nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Y1TkG5Vl9US5jMrz5eFeIkpw4xC1MSXHdm5kixBS9ho
%3D&reserved=0
>
>
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Side-slipping the Europa? |
fwiw, I'm with David on this, my experience as well.
Cheers,
Pete
Mono Classic
On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 6:13 PM <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> wrote:
> Ron and Clive, Bud has as ever given excellent answers, but perhaps I can
> add a bit. Firstly I would always side slip with Right rudder in a Europa
> as you then have excellent view ahead assuming you are in the Left hand
> seat, whereas left rudder slips restrict your view considerably. I find
> full right rudder side slipping at 60 kts very stable, easy to control an
d
> easy to straighten and it will produce 1000fpm descent instead of the 550
> fpm in a straight 60kt idling approach. I personally deliberately approac
h
> high on a PFL and then burn off the extra height by sideslipping to allow
> for the possibility that you have hit a strong wind gradient and dropped
> well below your original aiming point. - how often do you find yourself
> having to put in a burst of power at around 200ft if you are aiming to
> touch down on the piano keys?
>
> Wouldn=99t it be great to be able to get our planes out and go flyi
ng?
>
> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
>
> On 2021-02-16 20:45, rparigoris wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bud Great info as always, thank you. Few more questions about slipping
,
> specifically on 914 Mono XS: Does airspeed work pretty good in both left
> and right side slips with airspeed/pitot in factory position? Mono with
> gear and airbrake slots not covered, what's the best way to get exhaust
> into the cockpit? As far as power setting, left or right slip? Ron P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500731#500731<; http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-L &nb//forums.matronics.com"
> target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http:wiki.matronics.com"
> target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://wisp; -
> List &nb --> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribut=============
=
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|