Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:32 AM - Re: arplast pv 50 (Pete Jeffers)
2. 01:46 AM - Re: Re: Acceptable prop strike damage? (Pete Jeffers)
3. 03:00 AM - Re: arplast pv 50 (Richard Scanlan)
4. 05:44 AM - Re: Acceptable prop strike damage? (Bud Yerly)
5. 10:44 AM - Re: Acceptable prop strike damage? (Matt Dovey)
6. 10:49 AM - Re: arplast pv 50 (Matt Dovey)
7. 02:29 PM - Re: arplast pv 50 (Ken Atkinson)
8. 03:29 PM - Re: Wobbly altimeter and ASI (Griffo)
9. 03:57 PM - Re: Wobbly altimeter and ASI (n7188u)
10. 03:58 PM - Re: N11EU (kit A291) Flies (n7188u)
11. 05:16 PM - Re: Wobbly altimeter and ASI (Griffo)
12. 06:15 PM - Re: Re: N11EU (kit A291) Flies (Bud Yerly)
13. 10:08 PM - Re: Wobbly altimeter and ASI (Peter pender)
14. 10:38 PM - Re: Wobbly altimeter and ASI (Griffo)
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Hi Matt,
No there is nothing recommended in the manual but I have always used a water
resistant grease which is more usually recommended for outboard motors.
Trouble is that if you are not careful rain water can run down up pointing
bldes mand get into the hub and cause corrosion of the main blade thrust
bearings. Water tolerant grease tends to ease this problem. I am afraid
that Arplast were never very good at maintenance practices!!
Pete J
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dovey
Sent: 02 April 2021 21:58
Subject: Europa-List: arplast pv 50
Does anyone know what grease is used on the Arplast PV50 propeller hub? I've
had a look through the manual but cant find anything.
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501212#501212
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| Subject: | Re: Acceptable prop strike damage? |
Hi Matt,
When I answered your request re grease for Arplast PV50 I was unaware of the
prop strike. Whilst a PV 50 prop is not in any way related to Lycoming
engines or associated props a lot of the advice given in the linked article
is entirely relevant and should be taken notice of. I have seen PV50 hubs
cracked by prop strikes without significant damage to blades. So beware.
Pete J
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dovey
Sent: 02 April 2021 21:35
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Acceptable prop strike damage?
There is no rule of thumb. He's had a prop strike. Perform the inspection
https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/SB533C%20Recommended%20Action%2
0for%20sudden%20Engine%20Stoppage%2C%20Propeller_Rotor%20Strike%20or%20Loss%
20of%20Propeller_Rotor%20Blade%20or%20Ti%20%281%29.pdf
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| Subject: | Re: arplast pv 50 |
Molybdenum from Wurth is recommended for the Woodcomp gearbox
Sent from my iPad
> On 2 Apr 2021, at 21:58, Matt Dovey <mattdovey@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know what grease is used on the Arplast PV50 propeller hub? I've
had a look through the manual but cant find anything.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501212#501212
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Acceptable prop strike damage? |
Jonathan,
Any propeller contact is a shock to the engine and prop.
Hollow or foam filled composite props made from carbon fiber tend to crack and
tear inside and there is hidden damage. As a rule, I replace damaged carbon fiber
blades.
Solid Carbon fiber is only a bit tougher. Even Warp Drive prefers to just throw
away the blades and replace them. Their ground adjustable hubs are prone to
cracking on sudden stoppage but the cracks only show on NDI testing. The low
power hubs cand bend slightly out of shape on "the minor prop strike". This
is standard for aluminum. Always have the hub mic checked and I prefer to let
the factory do that now as I have made mistakes and missed things that the factory
would have caught.
Metal fixed pitch propellers, I recommend shipping back to the factory for redo
and static rebalance. The slight brrrt can twist the tip making for unusual
harmonics in the prop and eventual problems. Beware of the used aircraft with
a minor prop strike. It reeks of cheap owner, lax maintainer, and eventual vibrational
issues.
Wood props are a mixed bag, but normally the glue joints fail and the prop is toast.
Ultrasound and X rays don't work well with wood props.
Constant speed props are a mixed bag. Any prop strike should be sent to the factory.
The bearing surface at the collar and down in the hub can be distorted
with any shock load. The bearings are designed for rotational loads not bending
loads. As stated above, only through de-painting and NDI inspection can a
hub be returned to service. Hence, I believe in sending the hub back and have
it rebuilt.
Engine damage is also a mixed bag. Slipper clutches, types of gearboxes, crank
shafts, depend on the engine. I personally take a day and pull the engine, run
it to the facility and have the inspection done. It takes about 3-4 hours
to do it by the book.
No matter what, the pilot owner needs to pay the "dumb tax" if he made the mistake.
We all do and we also know that flying is not cheap. Bad maintenance will
degrade an aircraft into a flying heap. Pilot wise, if it was necessary to
ground loop to prevent destruction of the aircraft, insurance will pay for it.
One thing I know for sure is, aircraft damage is easy to repair. It will be time
consuming, inconvenient, and destroy the pocket book and pride but we own our
mistakes. If done right, the plane is as good or better than new. Cut corners
and it will bite you eventually.
Prop rebuilds on an Airmaster average is about $3-4000. Gearbox teardown/rebuild
and engine inspection is in $2-3000 range for a Rotax. Lycoming/Continental
I don't have as much experience with.
Treat any prop strike as serious. I have yet to find a simple one.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of JonathanMilbank
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2021 3:50 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Acceptable prop strike damage?
Getting straight to the point, is there a "rule of thumb" for how much damage a
propeller can sustain before a shock load engine strip-down is necessary? I suspect
that the decision lies with the engineer making the assessment.
Today a friend was flying his tail wheel RV6 in a strong crosswind on a tarred
runway and while landing he was dumped by a gust while attempting to go around,
perhaps over-rotated when pushing the stick forward and heard a sound like kerbing
a car's wheels, as he described it. He didn't really feel a vibration,
nor did he hear the engine note change. So it was a fleeting "brrrrt" on the tar
and following the go around pattern flown, a later inspection showing no evidence
on the runway surface.
The engine is an IO320 (I think), the propeller is fixed pitch metal and last 3
to 4 inches of the tips are now curled forward through a full 90 degrees. My
instinct is that a shock load engine strip-down isn't necessary in the circumstances,
but what do I know? Very little indeed, apart from a slight recollection
that damage like minor nicks in prop leading edges can be dressed out provided
that they're not along the 1/3 nearest the hub.
I look forward to your replies, thanks.
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| Subject: | Re: Acceptable prop strike damage? |
Peter I havent had a prop strike!!! Jonathan, the guy who started the thread his
buddy has pranged his RV.
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| Subject: | Re: arplast pv 50 |
Cheers Peter,
I've had the aircraft a few years now. I've kept it inside for that time. But I
dont know what happened before that. Its about time I had the hub apart and give
it a good looking at.
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| Subject: | Re: arplast pv 50 |
Hi Matt, I use JCB special HP GREASE high performance lithium complex
extreme pressure grease part no 4003/2017 This grease is blue as the
original and seems to fit the job. I live next door to a John Deere
agent so it is handy for me to obtain! I use the Quicksilver Marine
Lubricants 2-4-C Extremely water resistant grease for the outrigger
wheels and tailwheel bearings. This could also be used in the PV50 hub
or some other marine grease as Peter says.
You will probably be dismantling your hub anyway to set up the
mechanical fine stop? LAA require a check of the static rpm and a
mechanical fine stop setting to prevent over revving.
It is also worth considering new bearings.They are standard items,cheap
and can be obtained from Bearing Boys or Simply Bearings.
Chees Ken.
On 02/04/2021 21:58, Matt Dovey wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what grease is used on the Arplast PV50 propeller hub? I've
had a look through the manual but cant find anything.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501212#501212
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Wobbly altimeter and ASI |
Hi Chris,
I assume your engine is a Rorax 91
If your quoted take-off RPM 5300 is correct, be advised that Rotax recommend static
RPM to be no less than 5200. This should easily give you over 5500 + RPM
on climb out.
--------
46
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| Subject: | Re: Wobbly altimeter and ASI |
Griffo,
The static rpm is 5300. But during climb out it's about the same (which surprised
me too). I am planning to reduce the pitch slightly but after I have a chance
to let the airplane get up to cruise speed at a higher altitude and check the
RPM/MP numbers.
Chris
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| Subject: | Re: N11EU (kit A291) Flies |
Martin,
I have the wing mounted pitot/static.
Chris
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| Subject: | Re: Wobbly altimeter and ASI |
My ATEC Zephyr/912 ULS, 2 blade ground adjustable Fiti prop, with static 5200 rpm,
goes to well over 5500 within its 100 m ground role and is doing its rated
5700-5800 on climb out @70 knots / 1500+ ft/min (one pilot full fuel).
Hoping to purchase a Europa Classic/912 ULS in very near future. As Europa considerably
heavier with shorter wing span - expecting longer ground run and slower
climb out but much higher economy cruise (wanted for long trips way)
--------
46
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| Subject: | Re: N11EU (kit A291) Flies |
Chris,
You have gotten many good pieces of advice on your oscillating A/S and Alti
meter.
There are three things that Jeff MacDonald of Mac Avionics told me long ago
and has born out in my research on line as well as my own hard learned les
sons.
General:
The Europa XS underwing pitot and static tube is excellent and is within a
couple knots and 50 feet when installed as directed.
Cockpit static as a source is also quite close to the wing mounted static.
Installation errors are normally the instrument calibration itself. It has
been my observation that the airspeed indicators I've installed all read w
ithin their tolerance during in flight and ground certification checks usin
g the XS underwing pitot/static. Instruments errors must be tested for. I
don't use manometers in my garage and the standard atmospheric tables, I h
ire an avionics guy to check my instruments if I don=92t see the 1000 foot
check.
Specific to the Europa:
The wing to fuselage connection is a pair of Colder Products Company (CPC)
PMC 2202 and 1702 quick disconnects. These 1/8 barbed and 1/8 inch flow co
nnectors are excellent but the O ring on the PMC2202 can be cut very easily
. Also, the O ring will deteriorate with age. Look over the O ring carefu
lly, if it is rough feeling or you can see a crack in the surface, change t
he O ring. Part number from CPC is 730800. Get 10 if you used a number of
them in the panel also as I have. They last about 5 years. It is common
after a build to see a leak in these due to O ring age when left out of the
package.
A new aircraft with no wing to fuselage gap seals will have prop blast and
wind induced oscillations at the root. On a two blade you can almost count
the pulses. Any leak in your fitting at the root will cause errors in the
instruments using either pitot or static.
I am not afraid of using cockpit static during tests. This limits the stat
ic problems to the cockpit and panel. It makes sorting out issues in fligh
t easier in my opinion.
Specific to instrumentation:
Altimeters that fluctuate have an aneroid that is failing normally. Jeff c
aught it on my pitot static certification check. My Kollsman altimeter wou
ld catch and hang up is what I thought and Jeff found that the aneroid was
the most likely cause. It was, and the rebuild of this used certified alti
meter was ugly. A bad altimeter or airspeed indicator internal leak will c
ause errors.
EFIS and Autopilots can cause fluctuations that are cyclical. I found this
out with a TruTrack some years ago. Typically, it is the diaphragm on the
board mounted pressure indicator. It vibrates as it begins to fail causin
g fluctuation. Then it dies. I have never had an EFIS fail, but Jeff MacD
onald has had it happen in Garmins and Dynons.
Servo altimeters are not used in light aircraft but they are a very common
cause in fluctuations.
Airspeed indicators are a combo of pitot and static of course. I had a win
ter A/S indicator fail internally. Bouncy Altimeter and fairly steady airs
peed was noted. Winter fixed it for free plus shipping. But then again, I
really like my wind around airspeed indicator and the repair was great unti
l the needle fell off and I had to send it back again. I have paid more in
shipping than for my airspeed indicator. But I like what I like.
Testing or How to tell quickly (well sort of quickly):
We talked about the 1000 foot check on the ground by pulling by mouth one i
nch of mercury then capping off the tube. Altimeter climbs and holds 1000
feet, and the airspeed reads 135 Knots.
Vertical speed indicators climb during this and a good VSI normally goes ba
ck to zero with only about 50 foot loss and then stabilizes out at a very s
low bleed. Cheap VSIs will bleed nearly 300 feet per minute. Leaky A/S in
dicators begin to fall off speed and so one may have to test each instrumen
t separately.
I will normally begin inspection by pulling off the pitot/static tube from
the wing first and inspect.
Is the W33 plastic tip intact and secure.
Are the two 1/8 OD nipples inserted into the tube going into the wing secur
e.
If so, remove the pitot/static tubes from the wing pull the static and pito
t lines off (mark them) and using the same 1/8 ID polyurethane tubing that
comes in the kit, attach about 10 feet of the 1/8 inch hose used in the ki
t to the static line with a barb to barb fitting and go to the cockpit and
pull a small vacuum to raise the altimeter to 1000 feet. If it leaks. The
n pull the wing first and check the wing connection or any other connection
in the wing to the pitot/static tube. Yes, you will have to pull both the
wings on a mono. Always fun.
If the coupling or something in the wing connection leaks, fix it.
If the wing to pitot/Static is good, it is in the fuselage/panel. Hopefull
y, your panel rear access is convenient.
If the panel is suspect:
When using 1/4 inch Nylaflow and compression fittings rather than the 1/8 p
olyurethane hose and barbs, you have to check the compression fittings. Th
ese fittings and the 1/8 NPT screw in fittings are prone to leaks if not in
stalled properly. NPT threads must have the proper tape/sealant prescribed
by the manufacturer. The compression fittings must be snug but not over t
orqued to failure. Do not deviate from the manufacturer's fittings and ti
ghtening techniques/procedure.
I must confess on my Winter A/S indicator which has 4mm barbs, I heated the
tube to stretch it over the barb and some cheap plastic Tees when upgradin
g my panel to the Winter. Three years later, I found a static and pitot le
ak at the A/S indicator as the heated polyurethane took a set and without a
clamp simply sagged and started leaking. Use the proper tube for the barb
or pay the price. Good solid brass tees are better for longevity than pla
stic barbed tees in a panel.
No more stories of my screw ups.
Pull a vacuum again on the static connection in the panel/fuselage. Then a
bit of pressure on the pitot. If all seems stable. You must isolate inst
ruments.
I start by pulling the static line loose in the panel. If you have roaring
inlet air coming into your panel this will disturb the static. You will n
eed to plumb the static to the cockpit (near your feet normally is fine or
face of the panel). I personally disconnect any instrument that uses pitot
and static. So, the altimeter and altitude encoder (if you have a separat
e one) are one static source. The airspeed is static open alone as are the
EFIS and Autopilot.
Go Fly. Observe and land.
If the altimeter, transponder altitude (if you have a window for that), and
VSI seem to steady out. Look to the A/S indicator and EFIS and see how t
hey perform. He which is in error is the bad component. Autopilots are sn
eaky as they show and tell nothing usually.
I don't worry about massive errors in using cockpit static nor do I worry a
bout compromising my flight safety in a light airplane at low altitude. Th
ere are no pressurization worries only fittings and leaky fittings/instrume
nts.
With complete pitot/static failure, we are now in the age of redundant redu
ndancy.
Everyone seems to have an aviation AP on their phone with maps, ground spee
d distance to here and there and they are neat. We also have in panel GPS
information. So, loosing the pitot/static is a no brainer any longer, but,
you must note that GPS gives ground speed only.
For me (and you will develop your own feel) I use:
Look at the wind sock, listen to ATIS or watch the ripples on the lakes and
leaves in the trees and estimate the wind. Calculate your final ground sp
eed.
Throw out the gear/flaps at 80 ground speed and fly the turn at 75 or so, t
hen settle on your calculated final ground speed.
(Flaps and gear have been ops checked well over 90 KIAS by a number of pros
pective buyers.)
Proper contact flying tells us to memorize pitch and power settings. I use
4000 RPM/22 inches power, the horizon is 3-4 fingers from the panel top, a
nd that is about 80 knots on downwind. Trim the plane for that.
Drop the flaps and 5 clicks of down trim and fly around the corner at 75 in
a smooth turn. If the stick is heavy you are too slow, if you must push y
ou are too fast. Fly with your fingers and Europa acts like Goldilocks "ju
st right on the stick pressure ".
Roll out slowing to computed speed plus a little and add back 5 clicks of u
p trim and look at the aimpoint and use the VASI/PAPI lights and/or note yo
ur aim point comfortably above the nose a finger or two and I'm on speed (i
sh). The rest is sight picture.
Trigears are easy to get the approach on speed, Monos are a bit trickier bu
t similar techniques can be observed. Long runways and slow flight practic
e down the runway will put me down safely without incident. Practice, prac
tice, practice.
Good night.
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of n7188u
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2021 6:58 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: N11EU (kit A291) Flies
rb@gmail.com>>
Martin,
I have the wing mounted pitot/static.
Chris
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| Subject: | Re: Wobbly altimeter and ASI |
Griffo, suggest you look at SL-912-016R1 and report back on the recommended revs.
cheers Peter
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| Subject: | Re: Wobbly altimeter and ASI |
Hi Peter,
Which part of SL - 912 - 016R1 do you feel I should take note of ?
3.1.2 Performance Recommendations - seems to support my (above reported) setting.
As does
3.1.3 Fixed Pitch and Ground Adjustable Propellers - relevant to Chris's aircraft
- also supports my observations in my Zephyr
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46
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