Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Griffo)
2. 01:40 AM - Re: Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Brian Davies)
3. 03:18 AM - Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic (spcialeffects)
4. 03:34 AM - Re: Water Drain (Kelvin Weston)
5. 04:36 AM - Re: Re: Water Drain (Pete)
6. 05:49 AM - Twisted fuselage, or? (John Kirkgaard)
7. 08:07 AM - testing my messages using a new email address. (Peter Jeffers)
8. 09:07 AM - Re: testing my messages using a new email address. (Alan Burrill)
9. 01:39 PM - Re: Twisted fuselage, or? (JonathanMilbank)
10. 02:28 PM - Re: Water Drain (Griffo)
11. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: Water Drain (William Daniell)
12. 03:05 PM - Re: testing my messages using a new email address. (D McFadyean)
13. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Water Drain (Bud Yerly)
14. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Water Drain (Mike Christine Duane)
15. 07:47 PM - Re: Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Bud Yerly)
16. 09:03 PM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Griffo)
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| Subject: | Re: where to put OAT sensor? |
I am with Kingsley - subject to you having a large/deep enough vent
--------
46
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| Subject: | Re: where to put OAT sensor? |
I tried that location and the temperature went up significantly when I ran
the engine. I switched to the side air vent and that was perfect.
Brian Davies
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of trevord
Sent: 14 May 2021 03:53
Subject: Europa-List: Re: where to put OAT sensor?
Has anyone considered the wheel well ?
This space is out of the sun, there is lots of room and the wall I have
inserted to stop mud going into the lower fuselage is flat on my aircraft,
so perfect for mounting things to it by simply drilling a hole.
I have to install several OAT senders due to installing two uAvionix AV30s
which each require a separate OAT sender. Plus there is a third OAT sender
for the Kanardia Airspeed indicator to give TAS.
Would stray exhaust really be a problem here ?
Regards
Trevor
--------
Trevor
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| Subject: | Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic |
The repositioning of the oil rad is called the tropical chin mod, heres the link
for the UK LAA Mod
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Standard%20Mods/11362%20Chin.pdf
Hope this helps
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Hi Griffo
Im sure you did not mean to, but comments such as Oh well you can take a horse
to water but cant make it drink" tend to come across as a bit of a put down because
someone has failed to agree with you.
It maybe you feel your own view / idea / suggestion is better than others, Im sure
we all do from time to time which is why we all build our Europas slightly
differently.
But it is inappropriate to share that view on an open forum where the background
of other contributors is unknown and all views should be welcomed.
I hope we can avoid getting into my view is better than yours on this forum. Ultimately,
it is for each reader to take away the information thats suits their
preference and do what they will with it.
There is a lot of knowledge and experience on this forum and as a novice flyer
and builder, I have benefited enormously from people sharing their views and ideas
without judgement.
I would hate others to stop sharing for fear of having their views / ideas / and
suggestions put down by inappropriate comments
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.biz
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Fwiw, agree :-)
PeteZ
C-GNPZ
> On May 14, 2021, at 6:41 AM, Kelvin Weston <kelv@kdweston.biz> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Griffo
> Im sure you did not mean to, but comments such as Oh well you can take a horse
to water but cant make it drink" tend to come across as a bit of a put down
because someone has failed to agree with you.
> It maybe you feel your own view / idea / suggestion is better than others, Im
sure we all do from time to time which is why we all build our Europas slightly
differently.
> But it is inappropriate to share that view on an open forum where the background
of other contributors is unknown and all views should be welcomed.
> I hope we can avoid getting into my view is better than yours on this forum.
Ultimately, it is for each reader to take away the information thats suits their
preference and do what they will with it.
> There is a lot of knowledge and experience on this forum and as a novice flyer
and builder, I have benefited enormously from people sharing their views and
ideas without judgement.
> I would hate others to stop sharing for fear of having their views / ideas /
and suggestions put down by inappropriate comments
>
> --------
> Regards
>
> Kelv Weston
> Kit 497
> kelv@kdweston.biz
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501919#501919
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Twisted fuselage, or? |
It looks like I will need some very good advice from you fellow builders.
I have measured the fixtures and torque tubes on my Europa a few times.
Unfortunately I come to the same result in spite of using different methods.
First I level up the fuselage making it 100% level in both directions.
Then I measure down to the center of the pin hole forward wing pin bracket,
on both sides. Using a horizontal laser-line.
The elevation of the two wing fixings are found to be in exactly same level.
Then measuring the level of the rear fixings shows that starboard wing pin
socket is sitting 8 mm higher than the port one.
The measuring the Flap tube I find that the Starboard side is also 9 mm
higher than the port side.
Going to the Tail plane Torque Tube I find the same picture there.
And same for the foot wells.
So the solution seems to be quite forward: change the position of the rear
wing pin sockets, and ignore, that the fuselage will not be in level between the
doors.
But... During all measuring, the rudder is absolutely plumb. And my question to
you guys: what will happen if I correct everything and leave the rudder approx.
10-11 mm out of plumb?
Thanking in advance for any reply.
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| Subject: | testing my messages using a new email address. |
This message is sent to confirm or not if my messages are being received. I
was advised that reliability of messages being sent and received depends on
e-mail address. I was using talktalk but now am trying a g-mail address. Am
I correct to assume that you should receive a copy of messages that you have
sent yourself? After all we use a general e-mail address rather than our own
specific one when we use the forum.
Do not archive this message.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: testing my messages using a new email address. |
Message received and yes you should get a copy from the Mailing List.
Alan
> On 14 May 2021, at 16:07, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers02@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> This message is sent to confirm or not if my messages are being received. I
> was advised that reliability of messages being sent and received depends on
> e-mail address. I was using talktalk but now am trying a g-mail address. Am
> I correct to assume that you should receive a copy of messages that you have
> sent yourself? After all we use a general e-mail address rather than our own
> specific one when we use the forum.
> Do not archive this message.
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Twisted fuselage, or? |
Hello John,
Presumably this is the aircraft which you first saw in Canada? You've told me about
these problems before, if I remember correctly. Were it not for covid 19
considerations, it might be useful for me to come over and give you a hand. Failing
that, all that I can suggest is that perhaps we could have a Skype type
of discussion while you point a camera at the problems. I think I understand your
drawings, but it would be useful for me to see the problem areas "in real
time" which might be almost as good as being there in person.
Best wishes,
Jonathan
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Hi Kelv/Peter Z,
My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended.
>From my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be put forward
with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily received/adopted
as the need/will to do so is not apparent.
Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower fitting
- put down? - possibly.
--------
46
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Bud is enormously helpful to all of us and very generous with his time and
I very much respect his advice. He is the most experienced among us having
built many aircraft and guided many builders through the process, myself
included. Without the encouragement of the forum and especially Bud I
would not have achieved my wonderful aircraft.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:31 PM Griffo <scangriffin@bigpond.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hi Kelv/Peter Z,
>
> My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended.
>
> >From my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be put
> forward with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily
> received/adopted as the need/will to do so is not apparent.
>
> Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower
> fitting - put down? - possibly.
>
> --------
> 46
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501939#501939
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: testing my messages using a new email address. |
If I send a message I don't receive it back via the Forum (but I don't need to
see it again!). This is also with TalkTalk.
Get a lot of messages sent to SPAM too. Sometimes I don't receive some of the messages
in a string, or any at all at times.
DMcF.
> On 14 May 2021 at 16:07 Peter Jeffers <pjeffers02@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> This message is sent to confirm or not if my messages are being received. I
> was advised that reliability of messages being sent and received depends on
> e-mail address. I was using talktalk but now am trying a g-mail address. Am
> I correct to assume that you should receive a copy of messages that you have
> sent yourself? After all we use a general e-mail address rather than our own
> specific one when we use the forum.
> Do not archive this message.
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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Oh, knock it off guys.
Everyone has opinions, likes, wants and prejudices. My feelings don=92t ge
t hurt and neither should anyone else=92s. However, as in kindergarten, I
was taught to stay in line, be nice, keep your hands to yourself and wait y
our turn until it is your turn.
I, like some others, just aren=92t always good at it. We may have strayed
from the teaching of our past and one must try to get what he/she/person/co
mrade wants or needs, and we don=92t want to get it without offending or mi
sleading someone.
Opinions/wants/prejudices are like butt holes, everyone has one, just keep
it clean and don=92t abuse anyone else=92s. Techniques are just that, some
one=92s technique, not a procedure. Let=92s keep being cheerleaders for on
e another. Criticizing should be constructive and taken without offense.
Persistently pursue the optimum aircraft for you, and all the 20,000 compro
mises one makes building an aircraft, not persistently press your opinions
on to others as the only way.
I try to speak my piece, and Griffo and I should have gone off line as we (
well I) wandered around the plumbing issues of the Europa just clogging up
the forum. My apologies for dragging it out.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain
Bud is enormously helpful to all of us and very generous with his time and
I very much respect his advice. He is the most experienced among us having
built many aircraft and guided many builders through the process, myself i
ncluded. Without the encouragement of the forum and especially Bud I woul
d not have achieved my wonderful aircraft.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:31 PM Griffo <scangriffin@bigpond.com.au<mailto:s
cangriffin@bigpond.com.au>> wrote:
lto:scangriffin@bigpond.com.au>>
Hi Kelv/Peter Z,
My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended.
>From my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be put f
orward with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily received/
adopted as the need/will to do so is not apparent.
Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower fi
tting - put down? - possibly.
--------
46
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pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?Europa-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 14
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Well I for one like being the fly on the wall to people=99s conversati
ons. Working months with Bud taught me a lot in the way of approaching a pro
blem. But I still learn from other=99s conversations. You never know w
hat you don=99t know until you know it.
Mike Duane
N377EA Europa XS conventional gear
Jabiru 3300 powered
Chandler, Arizona
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 14, 2021, at 4:49 PM, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Oh, knock it off guys.
>
> Everyone has opinions, likes, wants and prejudices. My feelings don
=99t get hurt and neither should anyone else=99s. However, as in kind
ergarten, I was taught to stay in line, be nice, keep your hands to yourself
and wait your turn until it is your turn.
> I, like some others, just aren=99t always good at it. We may have s
trayed from the teaching of our past and one must try to get what he/she/per
son/comrade wants or needs, and we don=99t want to get it without offe
nding or misleading someone.
>
> Opinions/wants/prejudices are like butt holes, everyone has one, just keep
it clean and don=99t abuse anyone else=99s. Techniques are jus
t that, someone=99s technique, not a procedure. Let=99s keep be
ing cheerleaders for one another. Criticizing should be constructive and ta
ken without offense. Persistently pursue the optimum aircraft for you, and a
ll the 20,000 compromises one makes building an aircraft, not persistently p
ress your opinions on to others as the only way.
>
> I try to speak my piece, and Griffo and I should have gone off line as we (
well I) wandered around the plumbing issues of the Europa just clogging up t
he forum. My apologies for dragging it out.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com> On Behalf Of William Daniell
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 5:47 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain
>
> Bud is enormously helpful to all of us and very generous with his time and
I very much respect his advice. He is the most experienced among us having
built many aircraft and guided many builders through the process, myself in
cluded. Without the encouragement of the forum and especially Bud I would n
ot have achieved my wonderful aircraft.
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +1 786 878 0246
>
>
> On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:31 PM Griffo <scangriffin@bigpond.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hi Kelv/Peter Z,
>
> My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended.
>
> >=46rom my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be pu
t forward with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily receive
d/adopted as the need/will to do so is not apparent.
>
> Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower f
itting - put down? - possibly.
>
> --------
> 46
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501939#501939
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: where to put OAT sensor? |
Trevor,
My opinion is don't install it on the cowl itself as it is just another thing to
slow down cowl removal. Keep it out of direct sunlight if you can.
As for the wheel well:
In the event of a tire failure or God Forbid a gear up landing, damage is done
in the well.
I tend to stay away from directly behind the XS cowl exit. Just avoiding the cowl
exit air.
The wheel well is a nasty hole for dirt and debris. In my opinion it will be slightly
warmer than true outside air. (Disclaimer: I have no experience with the
actual temperatures in the wheel well.)
I've assisted clients in putting the OAT in several places.
1. My favorite is the inlet for the turbo duct. Radiator duct is a little too
warm unless right up front.
The inlet duct for the Turbo on the 914 metal shelf isn't bad. (Use caution and
note on the ground it gets pretty warm. Works fine in flight provided it is
on the outer most part of the duct and suspended in the stream.)
I have 12AY's OAT in the 914 inlet suspended on a short bolt/spacer held by an
Adel Clamp from the metal air dam. Works fine. (GRT and Blue Mtn.)
2. 912S located in the inlet attached to the airbox. (GRT) (Always make sure
you mount it for an easy airbox removal or engine removal to facilitate maintenance.)
3. Cockpit inlet ducts of course if there is room as folks have said. Nice and
close to the panel normally, so a short run. Dependent on inlet design. (Both
Dynon's)
4. In the starboard wing root back before the flap tube just forward of the flap
and behind the aft socket was popular for a while. We mounted it carefully
to allow for the aux tank. (Dynon and GRT)
5. In the closeout for the Stabilator. (Caution not to impact the stab of course.)
(Dynon)
6. Stuck out in the slipstream under the starboard seat was expedient for one
client who insisted on it in the cockpit. He only had NACA inlets to the cockpit.
Hard to wash the belly without hitting it though. (Dynon)
7. One guy has a ventilation tube plumbed from a NACA in the fin and piped into
the overhead. He had his in the tube there just as the NACA entered the fin.
(GRT)
8. Another was in the area below the starboard baggage bay inside but just aft
of the flap tube where I didn't think it would work well, but air came in the
flap slot and it actually worked OK. (GRT)
It is an experimental. If it doesn't work, plug the hole and move it. The only
way to tell is take separate temperatures. Use a handheld thermometer when
in flight placed in your cockpit inlet to check your OAT placement for accuracy.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of trevord
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 10:53 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: where to put OAT sensor?
Has anyone considered the wheel well ?
This space is out of the sun, there is lots of room and the wall I have inserted
to stop mud going into the lower fuselage is flat on my aircraft, so perfect
for mounting things to it by simply drilling a hole.
I have to install several OAT senders due to installing two uAvionix AV30s which
each require a separate OAT sender. Plus there is a third OAT sender for the
Kanardia Airspeed indicator to give TAS.
Would stray exhaust really be a problem here ?
Regards
Trevor
--------
Trevor
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: where to put OAT sensor? |
To check your OAT location/reading; try obtaining one of those self contained digital
indoor/outdoor thermometers or a fridge one.
They usually come with a long lead for the outdoor thermocouple.
Use a bit of double sided tape, to mount the "head/readout end in the cockpit.
Gap or 100 mph tape to temporarily secure the external lead and thermocouple in
the desired position.
Works a treat - have even used one to check carburettor inlet temperatures.
--------
46
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