---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/14/21: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:09 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Griffo) 2. 01:40 AM - Re: Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Brian Davies) 3. 03:18 AM - Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic (spcialeffects) 4. 03:34 AM - Re: Water Drain (Kelvin Weston) 5. 04:36 AM - Re: Re: Water Drain (Pete) 6. 05:49 AM - Twisted fuselage, or? (John Kirkgaard) 7. 08:07 AM - testing my messages using a new email address. (Peter Jeffers) 8. 09:07 AM - Re: testing my messages using a new email address. (Alan Burrill) 9. 01:39 PM - Re: Twisted fuselage, or? (JonathanMilbank) 10. 02:28 PM - Re: Water Drain (Griffo) 11. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: Water Drain (William Daniell) 12. 03:05 PM - Re: testing my messages using a new email address. (D McFadyean) 13. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Water Drain (Bud Yerly) 14. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Water Drain (Mike Christine Duane) 15. 07:47 PM - Re: Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Bud Yerly) 16. 09:03 PM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Griffo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:09:18 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: where to put OAT sensor? From: "Griffo" I am with Kingsley - subject to you having a large/deep enough vent -------- 46 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501915#501915 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:52 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: where to put OAT sensor? I tried that location and the temperature went up significantly when I ran the engine. I switched to the side air vent and that was perfect. Brian Davies -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of trevord Sent: 14 May 2021 03:53 Subject: Europa-List: Re: where to put OAT sensor? Has anyone considered the wheel well ? This space is out of the sun, there is lots of room and the wall I have inserted to stop mud going into the lower fuselage is flat on my aircraft, so perfect for mounting things to it by simply drilling a hole. I have to install several OAT senders due to installing two uAvionix AV30s which each require a separate OAT sender. Plus there is a third OAT sender for the Kanardia Airspeed indicator to give TAS. Would stray exhaust really be a problem here ? Regards Trevor -------- Trevor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501910#501910 -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:34 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic From: "spcialeffects" The repositioning of the oil rad is called the tropical chin mod, heres the link for the UK LAA Mod http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Standard%20Mods/11362%20Chin.pdf Hope this helps Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501918#501918 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:22 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain From: "Kelvin Weston" Hi Griffo Im sure you did not mean to, but comments such as Oh well you can take a horse to water but cant make it drink" tend to come across as a bit of a put down because someone has failed to agree with you. It maybe you feel your own view / idea / suggestion is better than others, Im sure we all do from time to time which is why we all build our Europas slightly differently. But it is inappropriate to share that view on an open forum where the background of other contributors is unknown and all views should be welcomed. I hope we can avoid getting into my view is better than yours on this forum. Ultimately, it is for each reader to take away the information thats suits their preference and do what they will with it. There is a lot of knowledge and experience on this forum and as a novice flyer and builder, I have benefited enormously from people sharing their views and ideas without judgement. I would hate others to stop sharing for fear of having their views / ideas / and suggestions put down by inappropriate comments -------- Regards Kelv Weston Kit 497 kelv@kdweston.biz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501919#501919 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:35 AM PST US From: Pete Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain Fwiw, agree :-) PeteZ C-GNPZ > On May 14, 2021, at 6:41 AM, Kelvin Weston wrote: > > > Hi Griffo > Im sure you did not mean to, but comments such as Oh well you can take a horse to water but cant make it drink" tend to come across as a bit of a put down because someone has failed to agree with you. > It maybe you feel your own view / idea / suggestion is better than others, Im sure we all do from time to time which is why we all build our Europas slightly differently. > But it is inappropriate to share that view on an open forum where the background of other contributors is unknown and all views should be welcomed. > I hope we can avoid getting into my view is better than yours on this forum. Ultimately, it is for each reader to take away the information thats suits their preference and do what they will with it. > There is a lot of knowledge and experience on this forum and as a novice flyer and builder, I have benefited enormously from people sharing their views and ideas without judgement. > I would hate others to stop sharing for fear of having their views / ideas / and suggestions put down by inappropriate comments > > -------- > Regards > > Kelv Weston > Kit 497 > kelv@kdweston.biz > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501919#501919 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:02 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Twisted fuselage, or? From: "John Kirkgaard" It looks like I will need some very good advice from you fellow builders. I have measured the fixtures and torque tubes on my Europa a few times. Unfortunately I come to the same result in spite of using different methods. First I level up the fuselage making it 100% level in both directions. Then I measure down to the center of the pin hole forward wing pin bracket, on both sides. Using a horizontal laser-line. The elevation of the two wing fixings are found to be in exactly same level. Then measuring the level of the rear fixings shows that starboard wing pin socket is sitting 8 mm higher than the port one. The measuring the Flap tube I find that the Starboard side is also 9 mm higher than the port side. Going to the Tail plane Torque Tube I find the same picture there. And same for the foot wells. So the solution seems to be quite forward: change the position of the rear wing pin sockets, and ignore, that the fuselage will not be in level between the doors. But... During all measuring, the rudder is absolutely plumb. And my question to you guys: what will happen if I correct everything and leave the rudder approx. 10-11 mm out of plumb? Thanking in advance for any reply. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501923#501923 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5202_275.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:47 AM PST US From: "Peter Jeffers" Subject: Europa-List: testing my messages using a new email address. This message is sent to confirm or not if my messages are being received. I was advised that reliability of messages being sent and received depends on e-mail address. I was using talktalk but now am trying a g-mail address. Am I correct to assume that you should receive a copy of messages that you have sent yourself? After all we use a general e-mail address rather than our own specific one when we use the forum. Do not archive this message. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:45 AM PST US From: Alan Burrill Subject: Re: Europa-List: testing my messages using a new email address. Message received and yes you should get a copy from the Mailing List. Alan > On 14 May 2021, at 16:07, Peter Jeffers wrote: > > > This message is sent to confirm or not if my messages are being received. I > was advised that reliability of messages being sent and received depends on > e-mail address. I was using talktalk but now am trying a g-mail address. Am > I correct to assume that you should receive a copy of messages that you have > sent yourself? After all we use a general e-mail address rather than our own > specific one when we use the forum. > Do not archive this message. > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:44 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Twisted fuselage, or? From: "JonathanMilbank" Hello John, Presumably this is the aircraft which you first saw in Canada? You've told me about these problems before, if I remember correctly. Were it not for covid 19 considerations, it might be useful for me to come over and give you a hand. Failing that, all that I can suggest is that perhaps we could have a Skype type of discussion while you point a camera at the problems. I think I understand your drawings, but it would be useful for me to see the problem areas "in real time" which might be almost as good as being there in person. Best wishes, Jonathan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501936#501936 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:15 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain From: "Griffo" Hi Kelv/Peter Z, My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended. >From my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be put forward with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily received/adopted as the need/will to do so is not apparent. Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower fitting - put down? - possibly. -------- 46 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501939#501939 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:22 PM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain Bud is enormously helpful to all of us and very generous with his time and I very much respect his advice. He is the most experienced among us having built many aircraft and guided many builders through the process, myself included. Without the encouragement of the forum and especially Bud I would not have achieved my wonderful aircraft. Will William Daniell LONGPORT +1 786 878 0246 On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:31 PM Griffo wrote: > > Hi Kelv/Peter Z, > > My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended. > > >From my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be put > forward with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily > received/adopted as the need/will to do so is not apparent. > > Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower > fitting - put down? - possibly. > > -------- > 46 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501939#501939 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:44 PM PST US From: D McFadyean Subject: Re: Europa-List: testing my messages using a new email address. If I send a message I don't receive it back via the Forum (but I don't need to see it again!). This is also with TalkTalk. Get a lot of messages sent to SPAM too. Sometimes I don't receive some of the messages in a string, or any at all at times. DMcF. > On 14 May 2021 at 16:07 Peter Jeffers wrote: > > > > This message is sent to confirm or not if my messages are being received. I > was advised that reliability of messages being sent and received depends on > e-mail address. I was using talktalk but now am trying a g-mail address. Am > I correct to assume that you should receive a copy of messages that you have > sent yourself? After all we use a general e-mail address rather than our own > specific one when we use the forum. > Do not archive this message. > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:19 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain Oh, knock it off guys. Everyone has opinions, likes, wants and prejudices. My feelings don=92t ge t hurt and neither should anyone else=92s. However, as in kindergarten, I was taught to stay in line, be nice, keep your hands to yourself and wait y our turn until it is your turn. I, like some others, just aren=92t always good at it. We may have strayed from the teaching of our past and one must try to get what he/she/person/co mrade wants or needs, and we don=92t want to get it without offending or mi sleading someone. Opinions/wants/prejudices are like butt holes, everyone has one, just keep it clean and don=92t abuse anyone else=92s. Techniques are just that, some one=92s technique, not a procedure. Let=92s keep being cheerleaders for on e another. Criticizing should be constructive and taken without offense. Persistently pursue the optimum aircraft for you, and all the 20,000 compro mises one makes building an aircraft, not persistently press your opinions on to others as the only way. I try to speak my piece, and Griffo and I should have gone off line as we ( well I) wandered around the plumbing issues of the Europa just clogging up the forum. My apologies for dragging it out. Best Regards, Bud Yerly From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain Bud is enormously helpful to all of us and very generous with his time and I very much respect his advice. He is the most experienced among us having built many aircraft and guided many builders through the process, myself i ncluded. Without the encouragement of the forum and especially Bud I woul d not have achieved my wonderful aircraft. Will William Daniell LONGPORT +1 786 878 0246 On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:31 PM Griffo > wrote: lto:scangriffin@bigpond.com.au>> Hi Kelv/Peter Z, My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended. >From my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be put f orward with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily received/ adopted as the need/will to do so is not apparent. Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower fi tting - put down? - possibly. -------- 46 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501939#501939 pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Europa-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:43 PM PST US From: Mike Christine Duane Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain Well I for one like being the fly on the wall to people=99s conversati ons. Working months with Bud taught me a lot in the way of approaching a pro blem. But I still learn from other=99s conversations. You never know w hat you don=99t know until you know it. Mike Duane N377EA Europa XS conventional gear Jabiru 3300 powered Chandler, Arizona Sent from my iPhone > On May 14, 2021, at 4:49 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > > =EF=BB > Oh, knock it off guys. > > Everyone has opinions, likes, wants and prejudices. My feelings don =99t get hurt and neither should anyone else=99s. However, as in kind ergarten, I was taught to stay in line, be nice, keep your hands to yourself and wait your turn until it is your turn. > I, like some others, just aren=99t always good at it. We may have s trayed from the teaching of our past and one must try to get what he/she/per son/comrade wants or needs, and we don=99t want to get it without offe nding or misleading someone. > > Opinions/wants/prejudices are like butt holes, everyone has one, just keep it clean and don=99t abuse anyone else=99s. Techniques are jus t that, someone=99s technique, not a procedure. Let=99s keep be ing cheerleaders for one another. Criticizing should be constructive and ta ken without offense. Persistently pursue the optimum aircraft for you, and a ll the 20,000 compromises one makes building an aircraft, not persistently p ress your opinions on to others as the only way. > > I try to speak my piece, and Griffo and I should have gone off line as we ( well I) wandered around the plumbing issues of the Europa just clogging up t he forum. My apologies for dragging it out. > > Best Regards, > Bud Yerly > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of William Daniell > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 5:47 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain > > Bud is enormously helpful to all of us and very generous with his time and I very much respect his advice. He is the most experienced among us having built many aircraft and guided many builders through the process, myself in cluded. Without the encouragement of the forum and especially Bud I would n ot have achieved my wonderful aircraft. > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +1 786 878 0246 > > > On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:31 PM Griffo wrote: > > Hi Kelv/Peter Z, > > My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended. > > >=46rom my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be pu t forward with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily receive d/adopted as the need/will to do so is not apparent. > > Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower f itting - put down? - possibly. > > -------- > 46 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501939#501939 > > > > > > > ========== > pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Europa-List > ========== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:29 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: where to put OAT sensor? Trevor, My opinion is don't install it on the cowl itself as it is just another thing to slow down cowl removal. Keep it out of direct sunlight if you can. As for the wheel well: In the event of a tire failure or God Forbid a gear up landing, damage is done in the well. I tend to stay away from directly behind the XS cowl exit. Just avoiding the cowl exit air. The wheel well is a nasty hole for dirt and debris. In my opinion it will be slightly warmer than true outside air. (Disclaimer: I have no experience with the actual temperatures in the wheel well.) I've assisted clients in putting the OAT in several places. 1. My favorite is the inlet for the turbo duct. Radiator duct is a little too warm unless right up front. The inlet duct for the Turbo on the 914 metal shelf isn't bad. (Use caution and note on the ground it gets pretty warm. Works fine in flight provided it is on the outer most part of the duct and suspended in the stream.) I have 12AY's OAT in the 914 inlet suspended on a short bolt/spacer held by an Adel Clamp from the metal air dam. Works fine. (GRT and Blue Mtn.) 2. 912S located in the inlet attached to the airbox. (GRT) (Always make sure you mount it for an easy airbox removal or engine removal to facilitate maintenance.) 3. Cockpit inlet ducts of course if there is room as folks have said. Nice and close to the panel normally, so a short run. Dependent on inlet design. (Both Dynon's) 4. In the starboard wing root back before the flap tube just forward of the flap and behind the aft socket was popular for a while. We mounted it carefully to allow for the aux tank. (Dynon and GRT) 5. In the closeout for the Stabilator. (Caution not to impact the stab of course.) (Dynon) 6. Stuck out in the slipstream under the starboard seat was expedient for one client who insisted on it in the cockpit. He only had NACA inlets to the cockpit. Hard to wash the belly without hitting it though. (Dynon) 7. One guy has a ventilation tube plumbed from a NACA in the fin and piped into the overhead. He had his in the tube there just as the NACA entered the fin. (GRT) 8. Another was in the area below the starboard baggage bay inside but just aft of the flap tube where I didn't think it would work well, but air came in the flap slot and it actually worked OK. (GRT) It is an experimental. If it doesn't work, plug the hole and move it. The only way to tell is take separate temperatures. Use a handheld thermometer when in flight placed in your cockpit inlet to check your OAT placement for accuracy. Best Regards, Bud Yerly -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of trevord Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 10:53 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: where to put OAT sensor? Has anyone considered the wheel well ? This space is out of the sun, there is lots of room and the wall I have inserted to stop mud going into the lower fuselage is flat on my aircraft, so perfect for mounting things to it by simply drilling a hole. I have to install several OAT senders due to installing two uAvionix AV30s which each require a separate OAT sender. Plus there is a third OAT sender for the Kanardia Airspeed indicator to give TAS. Would stray exhaust really be a problem here ? Regards Trevor -------- Trevor Read this topic online here: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D501910%23501910&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ce3003334aa1248dbed7008d91684804c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637565580603988747%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dGb27WR7BkqmODhqndSgb9%2BTmGil%2FJR4XSUNg4s07Go%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:28 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: where to put OAT sensor? From: "Griffo" To check your OAT location/reading; try obtaining one of those self contained digital indoor/outdoor thermometers or a fridge one. They usually come with a long lead for the outdoor thermocouple. Use a bit of double sided tape, to mount the "head/readout end in the cockpit. Gap or 100 mph tape to temporarily secure the external lead and thermocouple in the desired position. Works a treat - have even used one to check carburettor inlet temperatures. -------- 46 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501951#501951 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.