Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:12 AM - Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded (John Wighton)
2. 01:24 AM - Re: Airfoil Profiles (John Wighton)
3. 02:56 AM - Re: 3D Printer (Areba21)
4. 07:33 AM - Re: Airfoil Profiles (Area-51)
5. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: Airfoil Profiles (Rowland Carson)
6. 08:42 AM - Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine (Erich Trombley)
7. 09:21 AM - Re: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine (Pete Zut)
8. 10:31 AM - Re: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine (D McFadyean)
9. 12:56 PM - Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded (JonathanMilbank)
10. 05:03 PM - Re: Airfoil Profiles (Area-51)
11. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: Airfoil Profiles (Pete Zut)
12. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded (Bud Yerly)
13. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: Airfoil Profiles (Fred Klein)
14. 07:36 PM - Re: Re: Airfoil Profiles (Pete)
15. 11:09 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
16. 11:19 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
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Subject: | Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded |
Jonathan,
Well done for 'coming out' over an overspeed occurrence - we have all done it to
a larger or lesser extent and the questions you pose are very relevant.
I am not speaking for Europa Aircraft (current or past) or for the Club, however,
generally, the flap limiting speed is determined having conducted a stress
analysis of the whole system. The failure mode that causes the first failure
or lowest reserve factor (RF) is associated with a speed within the V-N envelope.
A suitable factor is applied (which in any case will include at least 1.5
for LIMIT to ULTIMATE and, most likely, additional factors such as 1.15 fitting
factor (at joints) or even 1.33 (for regularly dismantled items). For composite
structure failures, there are yet more factors that take into account the
environmental influences (e.g. temperature, humidity) and variability of build
standard.
Regarding loads, as air pressure is proportional to the square of the airspeed
the loads can rise very quickly. For your overspeed occurrence, the flaps would
have seen a dynamic pressure of approx 1.45 (i.e. 100^2/83^2 = 1.45, hence
45% overload). By definition this is somewhere between LIMIT and ULTIMATE load
levels, hence some detrimental deformation may have occurred.
The tg Owners Manual states "Vfe Maximum flap extended speed is the highest speed
permissible with the flaps in the prescribed extended position".
PoH states Vfe as 83kts. Vfe (max speed for extending/retracting flaps) implies
the actuator is the weak link. Vf would be a flap limiting speed.
You have done exactly the right thing, you have inspected the system for deformation.
It is likely that no damage has occurred at all.
If damage has occurred, the Europa actuator end attachment holes may have ovalised
very slightly (rattle tested?) but I suspect the flap end-pin and bearing
(and the attachment into the flap) are
over-engineered and will be unaffected.
Maybe you could add an additional disassembly/inspection to the flap actuator end
fittings when the aircraft is under it's next scheduled maintenance.
I suspect Bud may also have some useful input!
Regards
John
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502172#502172
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Subject: | Re: Airfoil Profiles |
The aerofoils are hybrid, derived from first principles and hence unique. If you
wish to do your own analysis I suggest you ask Europa Aircraft for the external
profile - David Stanbridge recently made an offer to share their 3D scanned
data of the Europa OML.
Please bear in mind that the section changes root to tip, hence intermediate wing
rib coordinate stations are needed to correctly simulate the wing.
Some online CAD models of the Europa exists, however, I would be cautious of using
them as their accuracy is quite poor.
FYI
I was fortunate to work at BAe Hatfield under Don Dykins for a short time during
my apprenticeship (moving on to the stress office as a career). The only other
claim I have to have known him personally was that he had the same preference
for cars as myself - he brought a Ford Capri 2.8i I had owned.
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502173#502173
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When I say, you'll agree with me. Adhesive printers make your life much easier
when you have to print a large number of adhesives or labels Stickers from our
shops are often difficult to get.
You're not going to find them in shops if you're searching for the sticker for
your preferred TV shows the just visit https://printerhow.com, your favorite anime,
work-related issues, ID text, massages or even decorating your home using
colorful and light sticks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502174#502174
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Subject: | Re: Airfoil Profiles |
Thanks for the insight there John! Have got todays results into CAD already. Your
right on the hybrid stance; looks a little like an Eppler or Boeing profile
(stable up to 400kt cruise)... which doesnt surprise me given the performance
envelope... Will see if the factory are willing to supply any data. My experience
on this level of study generally ends up with reverse engineering with laser
scanning due to highly guarded secret squirrel bunker information that can
be measured off any particular given factory part purchased... will just have
to use the sunlight to tell me where those stations are and plot out the whole
wing accordingly...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502178#502178
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Subject: | Re: Airfoil Profiles |
On 2021-06-01, at 15:33, Area-51 <goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com> wrote:
> My experience on this level of study generally ends up with reverse engineering
with laser scanning due to highly guarded secret squirrel bunker information
that can be measured off any particular given factory part purchased... will
just have to use the sunlight to tell me where those stations are and plot out
the whole wing accordingly...
Area-51 - not sure if I missed something earlier in this thread, but just out of
idle curiosity, what is your intended use of the data once captured?
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
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Subject: | Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine |
Chris,
Glad to hear you had a nice cross country. While it is true I have the ability
to choose something less than full flaps for landing, I make all my landings
full flaps, even in windy/gusty conditions. The view over the nose is better,
plus a lower touchdown speed and less float. As mentioned in my original post
I do, however, use partial flaps for takeoff.
With your fly off almost complete, hopefully you are able to make OSH.
Regards,
Erich
N28ET Classic Mono 914
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Subject: | Re: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine |
Further to Erich's excellent comments, fwiw, in the std mono, if full flaps
is causing issues on a short strip, I pull the flaps up partially once
airborne (my speed builds quickly once off the ground), allowing for better
climb. I have not yet found it to be limiting, other than it pops off a
bumpy strip prematurely.
On a typical longer runway, I simply let the speed build to Vx before
stowing the flaps all the way in one motion - typically at 2/3's runway.
In my XS "dream" build, I am leaving them coupled. I like keeping things
simple :)
Cheers
PeteZ
On Tue., Jun. 1, 2021, 11:50 a.m. Erich Trombley, <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
wrote:
> >
>
> Chris,
>
> Glad to hear you had a nice cross country. While it is true I have the
> ability to choose something less than full flaps for landing, I make all my
> landings full flaps, even in windy/gusty conditions. The view over the
> nose is better, plus a lower touchdown speed and less float. As mentioned
> in my original post I do, however, use partial flaps for takeoff.
>
> With your fly off almost complete, hopefully you are able to make OSH.
>
> Regards,
> Erich
> N28ET Classic Mono 914
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Sponsored by
> https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more
>
> On Punishments for Church Sex Abuse, a 'Significant Rewrite'
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b655246175d551840d9st02duc1
> Supreme Court Move Means J&J Owes Women $2B
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b6552485a29551840d9st02duc2
> After Osaka's Surprise Withdrawal, a Lively Debate
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b65524a912a551840d9st02duc3
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine |
<<typically at 2/3's runway.>>
How long is the runway and what surface/condition?
I'm 'struggling' with the acceleration of a new prop I'm trying and would like
a comparison.
Duncan McF.
> On 01 June 2021 at 17:20 Pete Zut <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
> Further to Erich's excellent comments, fwiw, in the std mono, if full flaps
is causing issues on a short strip, I pull the flaps up partially once airborne
(my speed builds quickly once off the ground), allowing for better climb.
I have not yet found it to be limiting, other than it pops off a bumpy strip
prematurely.
>
> On a typical longer runway, I simply let the speed build to Vx before stowing
the flaps all the way in one motion - typically at 2/3's runway.
>
> In my XS "dream" build, I am leaving them coupled. I like keeping things
simple :)
>
> Cheers
> PeteZ
>
> On Tue., Jun. 1, 2021, 11:50 a.m. Erich Trombley, <erichdtrombley@juno.com mailto:erichdtrombley@juno.com > wrote:
>
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > Glad to hear you had a nice cross country. While it is true I have
the ability to choose something less than full flaps for landing, I make all
my landings full flaps, even in windy/gusty conditions. The view over the nose
is better, plus a lower touchdown speed and less float. As mentioned in my
original post I do, however, use partial flaps for takeoff.
> >
> > With your fly off almost complete, hopefully you are able to make OSH.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Erich
> > N28ET Classic Mono 914
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more
> >
> > On Punishments for Church Sex Abuse, a 'Significant Rewrite'
> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b655246175d551840d9st02duc1
> > Supreme Court Move Means J&J Owes Women $2B
> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b6552485a29551840d9st02duc2
> > After Osaka's Surprise Withdrawal, a Lively Debate
> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b65524a912a551840d9st02duc3
> >
> > ==========
> > pa-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> > ==========
> > FORUMS -
> > eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > WIKI -
> > errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > b Site -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
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Subject: | Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded |
John,
Thanks for your prompt response. If by "actuator" you're referring to the electric
motor which I believe was originally from a Ford car window motor, I'm happy
to report that I don't have one. My aircraft was converted by the late great
Neville Eyre from monowheel to tri-gear. I took his good advice and retained
the cockpit lever which is now only connected to the flaps; this also saves weight
and complication.
So having checked everything very carefully and also the flap push-pull rod connected
to the lever, I'm quite confident that no damage seems to have occurred.
Thanks again.
Jonathan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502193#502193
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Subject: | Re: Airfoil Profiles |
Hi Rowland, basic CFD studies of complete airframe model using OpenFoam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502194#502194
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Subject: | Re: Airfoil Profiles |
Please let us know what the ideal drag-minimizing wing/fuse fairing looks
like! ;-)
PeteZ
On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 7:09 PM Area-51 <goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com>
wrote:
> goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com>
>
> Hi Rowland, basic CFD studies of complete airframe model using OpenFoam
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502194#502194
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded |
Jonathan,
I'm tied up at the moment and you will all be relieved for a short and fati
gue influenced answer on flap over speeds.
John W gives some sage advice. Inspection after any overspeed or overstres
s is the key to continued airworthiness. Pull the bracket covers, open up
the fuselage D tube and inspect all attachments. Look for cracked glass, d
elamination, and bolts that have elongated.
Some analysis from the top of my very tired head.
In the US the Vfe is supposed to be the speed at which maximum design G can
be loaded momentarily with the flaps extended. This is an iterative probl
em. Once Vfe is set or calculated, then there is another requirement that
the V speed must allow for a 1.3 times overspeed (per se) without exceeding
design structural limits. That was always concerning to me in my studies.
The flap is an airfoil that is fixed to the wing of course and the maximu
m speed of a flap setting has to be at the limit times the safety factors.
Therefore, we see in many aircraft a Vf1, 2 etc. based on the increment of
flap extension speed limits to address the process. So, we see Vf1 of 10
degrees is highest and 20 degrees a little slower, and 30 degrees is quite
low. The Europa was designed for one flap setting.
It is interesting that the flap drive of the Airbus style externally hinged
flap, that our little Europa has, actually takes very little force to exte
nd and retract. (The plain flap extension load is horrendously large in co
mparison.)
These hinged flap designs were brilliant and worth the drag of the brackets
. This extension /retraction force is evident in the mono where extension
and retraction between 60-90 KIAS has virtually no difference in gear exten
sion effort. Yes, the brackets are draggy, but the loads are low and the f
lap efficiency is quite good. One builder even installed a manual flap ext
ension handle (although I don't know who it was, he was a Flight Crafters
client.) Aerodynamically, the pitching moment, lift and drag of the flap i
s calculated and the hinge point of the flap and the drive pin are set to r
educe the load on the drive mechanism, simplify the gap flow accomplishment
, and simplify construction. All brilliantly executed. As a result, I don
't worry as much about the flap drive, I worry more about the flap attach b
rackets in an overspeed.
Looking at the flap sum of forces for this type flap, The force on the fla
ps when extended to nominally 27 degrees is basically a slotted flap with a
lift coefficient of somewhere around 2.0 assumed.
So, the force of lift vertically on the flap is Cl*1/2* (density)* V square
d in fps nominally at 83knots and a roughly 7.5 square foot flap is (2x1/
2x.00237x19643x7.5)=348 pounds of force upwards. The drag on the flap wi
ll be roughly 7 pounds. The pitching moment of the flap will be another co
uple of pounds. The moments are summed through the flap mechanism attach p
oint and the resultant flap drive pin position load is a small number. Sor
ry, I=92m not going to do actual calculations. In a picture it kind of loo
ks like this picture attached. More math in public to follow:
The load at say 1.3 times 83 knot Vfe is nominally 108 knots. Re-plugging
numbers the forces go up significantly: 2x1/2 x.00237x33269x7.5 +590 pound
s of force upwards. If I load the aircraft to full G (3.8 Gs) at 108 knots
, that 590 pounds times 3.8 or 2240 pounds.
So, some poor engineer will calculate all this out for the structural load.
Figuring 50,000 psi (working hand laid glass strength) with a glass thick
ness of .009, 4 layers, the glass to flox gap load bearing area of about 1.
5 square inches (that flox hole in the bracket), and a one foot hinge momen
t arm in a shear mode (roughly half the tensile strength) means, in extrem
ely rough numbers a single bracket will hold 1300 pounds of force times thr
ee brackets or 3900 pounds. Hence the flap attachment is in very rough ter
ms (non exactly measured) about 3900/2240 or 1.74 times stronger than I nee
d, which is greater than my safety factor of 1.5 over the 1.3 V of 108 knot
s (figuring it very roughly) in a max overspeed. Again, very rough numbers
.
If I simply up the load the flap area and stuff and multiply by 1.5 times 1
.5 (the super factor the Europa is designed to) based on the normal 83 knot
forces I'm sure it will come out similarly .
So, the extremely rough numbers give me a ball park confidence that althoug
h I am over speeding my flaps, and must inspect my aircraft attachment poin
ts I will concentrate my inspection on the flap bracket attachment to the f
lap and the wing attach points first. Then I will do a retract test and ma
ke sure my flap rig is correct (bent flap tube is a possibility), then insp
ect my flap drive attachments/welds/glass supports to assure that they are
still sound.
Just my thoughts. Don=92t overspeed the flaps if you can help it. I have
had a number of demo/checkout flights inadvertently extend flaps in the 90
Knot range for the last 15 years on poor old N12AY because they just don=92
t realize how clean the plane is. In a 914 if you don=92t make a very larg
e power reduction from the climbing crosswind to downwind level off, you hi
t 90 Knots pretty quick. Failure to monitor airspeed in the final turn can
build speed rapidly also even with full flaps. I can=92t tell you how many
secondhand owners end up crossing the threshold still doing over 83 Knots.
If you make the speed offender do the inspection panel and cover open up
and then put it back together, they pay attention to the airspeed more clos
ely.
Stay within the limits. IF you exceed them, inspect and repair as necessar
y. Don=92t just rattle the flaps and blow it off.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of John Wighton
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2021 4:12 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
john@wighton.net>>
Jonathan,
Well done for 'coming out' over an overspeed occurrence - we have all done
it to a larger or lesser extent and the questions you pose are very relevan
t.
I am not speaking for Europa Aircraft (current or past) or for the Club, ho
wever, generally, the flap limiting speed is determined having conducted a
stress analysis of the whole system. The failure mode that causes the firs
t failure or lowest reserve factor (RF) is associated with a speed within t
he V-N envelope. A suitable factor is applied (which in any case will incl
ude at least 1.5 for LIMIT to ULTIMATE and, most likely, additional factors
such as 1.15 fitting factor (at joints) or even 1.33 (for regularly disman
tled items). For composite structure failures, there are yet more factors
that take into account the environmental influences (e.g. temperature, humi
dity) and variability of build standard.
Regarding loads, as air pressure is proportional to the square of the airsp
eed the loads can rise very quickly. For your overspeed occurrence, the fl
aps would have seen a dynamic pressure of approx 1.45 (i.e. 100^2/83^2 =
1.45, hence 45% overload). By definition this is somewhere between LIMIT a
nd ULTIMATE load levels, hence some detrimental deformation may have occurr
ed.
The tg Owners Manual states "Vfe Maximum flap extended speed is the highest
speed permissible with the flaps in the prescribed extended position".
PoH states Vfe as 83kts. Vfe (max speed for extending/retracting flaps) im
plies the actuator is the weak link. Vf would be a flap limiting speed.
You have done exactly the right thing, you have inspected the system for d
eformation.
It is likely that no damage has occurred at all.
If damage has occurred, the Europa actuator end attachment holes may have o
valised very slightly (rattle tested?) but I suspect the flap end-pin and b
earing (and the attachment into the flap) are
over-engineered and will be unaffected.
Maybe you could add an additional disassembly/inspection to the flap actuat
or end fittings when the aircraft is under it's next scheduled maintenance.
I suspect Bud may also have some useful input!
Regards
John
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
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F5PGxnVTH4Tmi0%3D&reserved=0
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Re: Airfoil Profiles |
Petebelow are my best efforts in that regardI too am
very curious as to what a rigorous analysis will show...Fred
> On Jun 1, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Pete Zut <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
> Please let us know what the ideal drag-minimizing wing/fuse fairing
looks like! ;-)
>
> PeteZ
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 7:09 PM Area-51 <goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com
<mailto:goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com>> wrote:
<goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com <mailto:goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com>>
>
> Hi Rowland, basic CFD studies of complete airframe model using
OpenFoam
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502194#502194
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502194#502194>
>
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: Airfoil Profiles |
Indeed Fred, yours looks =9Cspitfire perfect=9D. Gorgeous!
-PeteZ
> On Jun 1, 2021, at 10:31 PM, Fred Klein <freddythek10@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BBPetebelow are my best efforts in that regardI t
oo am very curious as to what a rigorous analysis will show...Fred
>
>> On Jun 1, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Pete Zut <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> Please let us know what the ideal drag-minimizing wing/fuse fairing looks
like! ;-)
>>
>> PeteZ
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 7:09 PM Area-51 <goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com> wr
ote:
com>
>>>
>>> Hi Rowland, basic CFD studies of complete airframe model using OpenFoam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502194#502194
>>>
>
> <DSCN0009.jpeg>
>
> <DSCN0008.jpeg>
>
> <DSCN0913.jpeg>
>
> <DSCN0914.jpeg>
>
> <DSCN6945.jpeg>
>
> <DSCN6947.jpeg>
Message 15
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|
Subject: | Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Europa-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Europa-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Europa-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
europa-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "europa-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Europa-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Europa-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/europa-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Europa-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Europa-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Europa-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Europa-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Europa-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Europa-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Europa
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 16
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|
Subject: | Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
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-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
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