---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/07/21: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:22 AM - Re: Airfoil Profiles (Area-51) 2. 01:01 AM - Re: Starter Diode (david park) 3. 01:31 AM - Re: Starter Diode (Alan Burrill) 4. 02:09 AM - Re: Starter Diode (david park) 5. 02:27 AM - XS Tail wheel assembly (flyingphil2) 6. 02:37 AM - Re: Starter Diode (Alan Burrill) 7. 02:42 AM - Re: Starter Diode (Kingsley Hurst) 8. 02:56 AM - Re: Starter Diode (Alan Burrill) 9. 03:30 AM - Re: Starter Diode (david park) 10. 04:03 AM - Re: Starter Diode (Kingsley Hurst) 11. 04:25 AM - Re: Starter Diode (Alan Burrill) 12. 04:55 AM - Re: Starter Diode (david park) 13. 04:07 PM - Re: XS Tail wheel assembly (Area-51) 14. 10:19 PM - Re: XS Tail wheel assembly (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:02 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Airfoil Profiles From: "Area-51" What an awesome looking europa!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502257#502257 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:05 AM PST US From: david park Subject: Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode Bud, Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not swi tch. Regards Dave Park > On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote: > > =EF=BB > Dave, > I didn't see anyone commented on your diode. > > Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving grace i s the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid must b e grounded. > Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on the d iode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of the d iode and it shorts. > > The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted prac tice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Europa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do. > > IN5404 > silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter switc h tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the sta rter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastening b olt to the main firewall ground. > > Best Regards, > Bud Yerly > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of david park > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode > > > I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as de scribed with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth? > Have I got wrong diode. > Any advice appreciated > > Dave Park G-LDVO > > > - The Europa-List Email Forum - > --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw ww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189a f0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375825 64812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJB TiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby9t6 u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0 > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ff orums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f 1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnknow n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6 Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3D&a mp;reserved=0 > - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw iki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c 0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnknown% 7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn 0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&r eserved=0 > - List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw ww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b61755 08d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692 %7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWw iLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4XO38 X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:13 AM PST US From: Alan Burrill Subject: Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode Are you sure the diode is not faulty? You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high resist ance one way and low the other. Have you tried connecting it the other way round? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote: > > =EF=BBBud, > Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not s witch. > Regards > Dave Park > > >>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote: >>> >> =EF=BB >> Dave, >> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode. >> >> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving grace is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid mus t be grounded. >> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on the diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of th e diode and it shorts. >> >> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted pra ctice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Europ a Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do. >> >> IN5404 >> >> >> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter swit ch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the st arter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastening bolt to the main firewall ground. >> >> Best Regards, >> Bud Yerly >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of david park >> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode >> >> >> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as d escribed with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth? >> Have I got wrong diode. >> Any advice appreciated >> >> Dave Park G-LDVO >> >> >> - The Europa-List Email Forum - >> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw ww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189a f0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375825 64812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJB TiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby9t6 u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0 >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ff orums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f 1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnknow n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6 Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3D&a mp;reserved=0 >> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw iki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c 0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnknown% 7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn 0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&r eserved=0 >> - List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw ww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b61755 08d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692 %7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWw iLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4XO38 X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0 >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:09:43 AM PST US From: david park Subject: Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode Allan have you put ANODE to switch contact? Dave Park > On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote: > > =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty? > > You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high resi stance one way and low the other. > > Have you tried connecting it the other way round? > > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote: >>> >> =EF=BBBud, >> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not s witch. >> Regards >> Dave Park >> >> >>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote: >>>> >>> =EF=BB >>> Dave, >>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode. >>> >>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving grac e is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid mu st be grounded. >>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on th e diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of t he diode and it shorts. >>> >>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted pr actice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Euro pa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do. >>> >>> IN5404 >>> >>> >>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter swi tch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the s tarter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastenin g bolt to the main firewall ground. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Bud Yerly >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of david park >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM >>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode >>> >>> >>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as d escribed with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth? >>> Have I got wrong diode. >>> Any advice appreciated >>> >>> Dave Park G-LDVO >>> >>> >>> - The Europa-List Email Forum - >>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a18 9af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63758 2564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLC JBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby9 t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0 >>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f 6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnkn own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC I6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3D &reserved=0 >>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f 1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnknow n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6 Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D& ;reserved=0 >>> - List Contribution Web Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b617 5508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375825648126306 92%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4XO 38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0 >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:59 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: XS Tail wheel assembly From: "flyingphil2" Hi, I'm looking for all the parts to make a complete XS tailwheel assembly. I ideally want new, unused parts - does anyone have any bits lying around that they'd like to sell? Thanks, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502262#502262 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:36 AM PST US From: Alan Burrill Subject: Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode I=99m asking if you did it by accident, I know what happens=F0=9F=98 Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:11, david park wrote: > > =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact? > > Dave Park > > >>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote: >>> >> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty? >> >> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high res istance one way and low the other. >> >> Have you tried connecting it the other way round? >> >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote: >>>> >>> =EF=BBBud, >>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not switch. >>> Regards >>> Dave Park >>> >>> >>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote: >>>>> >>>> =EF=BB >>>> Dave, >>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode. >>>> >>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving gra ce is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid m ust be grounded. >>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on t he diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of t he diode and it shorts. >>>> >>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted p ractice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Eur opa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do. >>>> >>>> IN5404 >>>> >>>> >>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter sw itch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the s tarter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastenin g bolt to the main firewall ground. >>>> >>>> Best Regards, >>>> Bud Yerly >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of david park >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM >>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode >>>> >>>> >>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth? >>>> Have I got wrong diode. >>>> Any advice appreciated >>>> >>>> Dave Park G-LDVO >>>> >>>> >>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum - >>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a1 89af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375 82564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby 9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0 >>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925 f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnk nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV CI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3 D&reserved=0 >>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6 f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnkno wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI 6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&am p;reserved=0 >>>> - List Contribution Web Site - >>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b61 75508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630 692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4X O38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0 >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:46 AM PST US From: Kingsley Hurst Subject: Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode Hello Dave, I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I assume you wa nt to put the diode across the starter solenoid. If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the starter mot or side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the positive (starter swi tch) side of the solenoid. If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting the eng ine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the full curre nt of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined. Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure it cond ucts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode. When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key switch), th e diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the current passes thro ugh the solenoid. On releasing the starter button (or key switch), the coll apsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid tries to induce a high voltage spike but this is swamped by the diode because the diode short circuits the current induced by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil. Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could and probab ly should have just said ..... connect it like the manual says. Best regards Kingsley in Oz. Sent from my iPhone > On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote: > > =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact? > > Dave Park > > >>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote: >>> >> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty? >> >> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high res istance one way and low the other. >> >> Have you tried connecting it the other way round? >> >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote: >>>> >>> =EF=BBBud, >>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not switch. >>> Regards >>> Dave Park >>> >>> >>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote: >>>>> >>>> =EF=BB >>>> Dave, >>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode. >>>> >>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving gra ce is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid m ust be grounded. >>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on t he diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of t he diode and it shorts. >>>> >>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted p ractice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Eur opa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do. >>>> >>>> IN5404 >>>> >>>> >>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter sw itch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the s tarter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastenin g bolt to the main firewall ground. >>>> >>>> Best Regards, >>>> Bud Yerly >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of david park >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM >>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode >>>> >>>> >>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth? >>>> Have I got wrong diode. >>>> Any advice appreciated >>>> >>>> Dave Park G-LDVO >>>> >>>> >>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum - >>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a1 89af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375 82564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby 9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0 >>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925 f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnk nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV CI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3 D&reserved=0 >>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6 f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnkno wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI 6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&am p;reserved=0 >>>> - List Contribution Web Site - >>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b61 75508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630 692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4X O38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0 >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:15 AM PST US From: Alan Burrill Subject: Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode The diode is connected across the starter solenoid coil not the contacts for the starter motor as per the extract from the build manual above. There is n o diode across the starter motor shown in the build manual diagram, at least not my version. With 12v positive on the starter contacter coil the diode, with the cathode o r marked end of the diode connected to positive terminal of the starter coil , is reverse biased and so will not conduct. When the starter button release the falling emf, magnetic field, produces an opposite voltage in the coil a nd can spark across the starter switch contacts eventually damaging the cont acts, the diode shorts out this so the spark does not happen. If the diode is shorted out, or the wrong way round, then solenoid will not w ork, assuming the solenoid will operate without diode connected as a test to ensure it=99s the wiring of the diode that=99s the problem of c ourse. Isn=99t explaining electrical problems by email fun .=F0=9F=A4=A9 Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:44, Kingsley Hurst wrote: > > =EF=BBHello Dave, > > I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I assume you w ant to put the diode across the starter solenoid. > > If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the starter m otor side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the positive (starter s witch) side of the solenoid. > > If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting the e ngine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the full cur rent of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined. > > Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure it co nducts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode. > > When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key switch), t he diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the current passes thr ough the solenoid. On releasing the starter button (or key switch), the col lapsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid tries to induce a high voltag e spike but this is swamped by the diode because the diode short circuits th e current induced by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil. > > Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could and prob ably should have just said ..... connect it like the manual says. > > Best regards > Kingsley in Oz. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote: >>> >> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact? >> >> Dave Park >> >> >>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote: >>>> >>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty? >>> >>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high re sistance one way and low the other. >>> >>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round? >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote: >>>>> >>>> =EF=BBBud, >>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? No t switch. >>>> Regards >>>> Dave Park >>>> >>>> >>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> =EF=BB >>>>> Dave, >>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode. >>>>> >>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving gr ace is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid m ust be grounded. >>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on t he diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of t he diode and it shorts. >>>>> >>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted p ractice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Eur opa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do. >>>>> >>>>> IN5404 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter s witch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the starter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fasten ing bolt to the main firewall ground. >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>> Bud Yerly >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of david park >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM >>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was a s described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth ? >>>>> Have I got wrong diode. >>>>> Any advice appreciated >>>>> >>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum - >>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a1 89af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375 82564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby 9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925 f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnk nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV CI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3 D&reserved=0 >>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6 f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnkno wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI 6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&am p;reserved=0 >>>>> - List Contribution Web Site - >>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b61 75508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630 692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4X O38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:56 AM PST US From: david park Subject: Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode Thanks everyone, happy now=F0=9F=98=84=F0=9F=98=84=F0=9F=98=84 Dave Park > On 7 Jun 2021, at 11:00, Alan Burrill wrote: > > =EF=BB > > The diode is connected across the starter solenoid coil not the contacts f or the starter motor as per the extract from the build manual above. There i s no diode across the starter motor shown in the build manual diagram, at le ast not my version. > > With 12v positive on the starter contacter coil the diode, with the cathod e or marked end of the diode connected to positive terminal of the starter c oil, is reverse biased and so will not conduct. When the starter button rele ase the falling emf, magnetic field, produces an opposite voltage in the coi l and can spark across the starter switch contacts eventually damaging the c ontacts, the diode shorts out this so the spark does not happen. > > If the diode is shorted out, or the wrong way round, then solenoid will no t work, assuming the solenoid will operate without diode connected as a test to ensure it=99s the wiring of the diode that=99s the problem o f course. > > Isn=99t explaining electrical problems by email fun .=F0=9F=A4=A9 > > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:44, Kingsley Hurst wrote : >>> >> =EF=BBHello Dave, >> >> I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I assume you want to put the diode across the starter solenoid. >> >> If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the starter m otor side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the positive (starter s witch) side of the solenoid. >> >> If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting the e ngine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the full cur rent of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined. >> >> Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure it c onducts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode. >> >> When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key switch), the diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the current passes t hrough the solenoid. On releasing the starter button (or key switch), the c ollapsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid tries to induce a high volt age spike but this is swamped by the diode because the diode short circuits t he current induced by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil. >> >> Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could and pro bably should have just said ..... connect it like the manual says. >> >> Best regards >> Kingsley in Oz. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote: >>>> >>> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact? >>> >>> Dave Park >>> >>> >>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote: >>>>> >>>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty? >>>> >>>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high r esistance one way and low the other. >>>> >>>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round? >>>> >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> =EF=BBBud, >>>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? N ot switch. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Dave Park >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> =EF=BB >>>>>> Dave, >>>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode. >>>>>> >>>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving g race is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid must be grounded. >>>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on the diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side o f the diode and it shorts. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted practice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The E uropa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do. >>>>>> >>>>>> IN5404 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter s witch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the starter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fasten ing bolt to the main firewall ground. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>> Bud Yerly >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of david park >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM >>>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was a s described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth ? >>>>>> Have I got wrong diode. >>>>>> Any advice appreciated >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum - >>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756 a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63 7582564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZ by9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d9 25f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CU nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM %3D&reserved=0 >>>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 F%2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925 f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnk nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV CI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D& amp;reserved=0 >>>>>> - List Contribution Web Site - >>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b 6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375825648126 30692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA 4XO38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:10 AM PST US From: Kingsley Hurst Subject: Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode =EF=BBHello Alan, I wasn=99t intending to infer the diode should be across the starter m otor as I clearly said starter solenoid in my opening paragraph. Without digging a deeper hole for myself, I offer no excuses for the errors i n my posting other than to say my brain was obviously not engaged properly a fter 8 hrs of driving today. Please accept my apology (and you too Dave) for my misdemeanour. Regards Kingsley. Sent from my iPhone > On 7 Jun 2021, at 8:19 pm, Alan Burrill wrote: > =EF=BB > > > The diode is connected across the starter solenoid coil not the contacts f or the starter motor as per the extract from the build manual above. There i s no diode across the starter motor shown in the build manual diagram, at le ast not my version. > > With 12v positive on the starter contacter coil the diode, with the cathod e or marked end of the diode connected to positive terminal of the starter c oil, is reverse biased and so will not conduct. When the starter button rele ase the falling emf, magnetic field, produces an opposite voltage in the coi l and can spark across the starter switch contacts eventually damaging the c ontacts, the diode shorts out this so the spark does not happen. > > If the diode is shorted out, or the wrong way round, then solenoid will no t work, assuming the solenoid will operate without diode connected as a test to ensure it=99s the wiring of the diode that=99s the problem o f course. > > Isn=99t explaining electrical problems by email fun .=F0=9F=A4=A9 > > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:44, Kingsley Hurst wrote: >> =EF=BBHello Dave, >> >> I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I assume you want to put the diode across the starter solenoid. >> >> If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the starter m otor side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the positive (starter s witch) side of the solenoid. >> >> If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting the e ngine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the full cur rent of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined. >> >> Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure it c onducts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode. >> >> When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key switch), the diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the current passes t hrough the solenoid. On releasing the starter button (or key switch), the c ollapsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid tries to induce a high volt age spike but this is swamped by the diode because the diode short circuits t he current induced by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil. >> >> Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could and pro bably should have just said ..... connect it like the manual says. >> >> Best regards >> Kingsley in Oz. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote: >>> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact? >>> >>> Dave Park >>> >>> >>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote: >>>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty? >>>> >>>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high r esistance one way and low the other. >>>> >>>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round? >>>> >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote: >>>>> =EF=BBBud, >>>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? N ot switch. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Dave Park >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote: >>>>>> =EF=BB >>>>>> Dave, >>>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode. >>>>>> >>>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving g race is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid must be grounded. >>>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on the diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side o f the diode and it shorts. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted practice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The E uropa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do. >>>>>> >>>>>> IN5404 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter s witch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the starter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fasten ing bolt to the main firewall ground. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>> Bud Yerly >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of david park >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM >>>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was a s described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth ? >>>>>> Have I got wrong diode. >>>>>> Any advice appreciated >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum - >>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756 a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63 7582564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZ by9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d9 25f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CU nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM %3D&reserved=0 >>>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 F%2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925 f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnk nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV CI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D& amp;reserved=0 >>>>>> - List Contribution Web Site - >>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b 6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375825648126 30692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA 4XO38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:28 AM PST US From: Alan Burrill Subject: Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode Kingsley, no problem here and I was just ensuring with the diagram that everyone contributing had access to the same info. I think Dave has indicated he has the answer - he might even share what was causing the problem. =F0=9F=98 Alan > On 7 Jun 2021, at 12:02, Kingsley Hurst wrote: > > =EF=BBHello Alan, > > I wasn=99t intending to infer the diode should be across the starter motor as I clearly said starter solenoid in my opening paragraph. > > Without digging a deeper hole for myself, I offer no excuses for the errors in my posting other than to say my brain was obviously not engaged properly after 8 hrs of driving today. > > Please accept my apology (and you too Dave) for my misdemeanour. > > Regards > Kingsley. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 7 Jun 2021, at 8:19 pm, Alan Burrill > wrote: >> >> =EF=BB >> >> >> The diode is connected across the starter solenoid coil not the contacts for the starter motor as per the extract from the build manual above. There is no diode across the starter motor shown in the build manual diagram, at least not my version. >> >> With 12v positive on the starter contacter coil the diode, with the cathode or marked end of the diode connected to positive terminal of the starter coil, is reverse biased and so will not conduct. When the starter button release the falling emf, magnetic field, produces an opposite voltage in the coil and can spark across the starter switch contacts eventually damaging the contacts, the diode shorts out this so the spark does not happen. >> >> If the diode is shorted out, or the wrong way round, then solenoid will not work, assuming the solenoid will operate without diode connected as a test to ensure it=99s the wiring of the diode that=99s the problem of course. >> >> Isn=99t explaining electrical problems by email fun.=F0=9F=A4=A9 >> >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:44, Kingsley Hurst wrote: >>> >>> =EF=BBHello Dave, >>> >>> I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I assume you want to put the diode across the starter solenoid. >>> >>> If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the starter motor side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the positive (starter switch) side of the solenoid. >>> >>> If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting the engine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the full current of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined. >>> >>> Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure it conducts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode. >>> >>> When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key switch), the diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the current passes through the solenoid. On releasing the starter button (or key switch), the collapsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid tries to induce a high voltage spike but this is swamped by the diode because the diode short circuits the current induced by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil. >>> >>> Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could and probably should have just said ..... connect it like the manual says. >>> >>> Best regards >>> Kingsley in Oz. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote: >>>> >>>> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact? >>>> >>>> Dave Park >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote: >>>>> >>>>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty? >>>>> >>>>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high resistance one way and low the other. >>>>> >>>>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round? >>>>> >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> =EF=BBBud, >>>>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not switch. >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Dave Park >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> =EF=BB >>>>>>> Dave, >>>>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving grace is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid must be grounded. >>>>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on the diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of the diode and it shorts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted practice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Europa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> IN5404 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter switch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the starter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastening bolt to the main firewall ground. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>> Bud Yerly >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of david park >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM >>>>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>>>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth? >>>>>>> Have I got wrong diode. >>>>>>> Any advice appreciated >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum - >>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matr onics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42 b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375825648 12620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby9t 6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m atronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7 C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnknown%7 CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M n0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3D& amp;reserved=0 >>>>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.mat ronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C8 4df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnknown%7CT WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0 %3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D& reserved=0 >>>>>>> - List Contribution Web Site - >>>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matr onics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d92 5f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7C Unknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwi LCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4XO3 8X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:20 AM PST US From: david park Subject: Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode Ptroblem started while rewiring a new panel and engine would not start due t o a different problem. When looking to replace diode I got confused with dif fering advice and written instructions, but was sure it should be as diagra m. All good now ready for continental adventures again?? Regards Dave Park > On 7 Jun 2021, at 12:29, Alan Burrill wrote: > > =EF=BBKingsley, no problem here and I was just ensuring with the diagra m that everyone contributing had access to the same info. > > I think Dave has indicated he has the answer - he might even share what wa s causing the problem. =F0=9F=98 > > Alan > >> On 7 Jun 2021, at 12:02, Kingsley Hurst wrote: >> >> =EF=BBHello Alan, >> >> I wasn=99t intending to infer the diode should be across the starte r motor as I clearly said starter solenoid in my opening paragraph. >> >> Without digging a deeper hole for myself, I offer no excuses for the erro rs in my posting other than to say my brain was obviously not engaged proper ly after 8 hrs of driving today. >> >> Please accept my apology (and you too Dave) for my misdemeanour. >> >> Regards >> Kingsley. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 8:19 pm, Alan Burrill wrote: >>>> >>> =EF=BB >>> >>> >>> The diode is connected across the starter solenoid coil not the contacts for the starter motor as per the extract from the build manual above. There is no diode across the starter motor shown in the build manual diagram, at l east not my version. >>> >>> With 12v positive on the starter contacter coil the diode, with the cath ode or marked end of the diode connected to positive terminal of the starter coil, is reverse biased and so will not conduct. When the starter button re lease the falling emf, magnetic field, produces an opposite voltage in the c oil and can spark across the starter switch contacts eventually damaging the contacts, the diode shorts out this so the spark does not happen. >>> >>> If the diode is shorted out, or the wrong way round, then solenoid will n ot work, assuming the solenoid will operate without diode connected as a tes t to ensure it=99s the wiring of the diode that=99s the problem o f course. >>> >>> Isn=99t explaining electrical problems by email fun .=F0=9F=A4=A9 >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:44, Kingsley Hurst wro te: >>>>> >>>> =EF=BBHello Dave, >>>> >>>> I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I assume y ou want to put the diode across the starter solenoid. >>>> >>>> If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the starte r motor side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the positive (starte r switch) side of the solenoid. >>>> >>>> If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting th e engine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the full c urrent of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined. >>>> >>>> Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure it conducts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode. >>>> >>>> When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key switch ), the diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the current passes through the solenoid. On releasing the starter button (or key switch), the collapsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid tries to induce a high vo ltage spike but this is swamped by the diode because the diode short circuit s the current induced by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil. >>>> >>>> Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could and p robably should have just said ..... connect it like the manual says. >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> Kingsley in Oz. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact? >>>>> >>>>> Dave Park >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty? >>>>>> >>>>>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high resistance one way and low the other. >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round? >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> =EF=BBBud, >>>>>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not switch. >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> Dave Park >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> =EF=BB >>>>>>>> Dave, >>>>>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving grace is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the soleno id must be grounded. >>>>>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting o n the diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side o f the diode and it shorts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accept ed practice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Europa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> IN5404 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starte r switch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on t he starter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fast ening bolt to the main firewall ground. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>>> Bud Yerly >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of david park >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation wa s as described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to ea rth? >>>>>>>> Have I got wrong diode. >>>>>>>> Any advice appreciated >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum - >>>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A %2F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C47 56a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C 637582564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUH kZby9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A %2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508 d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7 CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUh MM%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >>>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A %2F%2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d9 25f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CU nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3 D&reserved=0 >>>>>>>> - List Contribution Web Site - >>>>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A %2F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d4 2b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63758256481 2630692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2 FA4XO38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0 > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:45 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: XS Tail wheel assembly From: "Area-51" Make sure you apply Mod77 when you fit the tailwheel assembly; its made a huge difference to affective ground control on the aircraft... flew circuits for the first time yesterday after fitting the mod and found it more precise and responsive to minor rudder inputs and ability to maintain centerline... finding it no more challenging than a Motorfalke to handle on the ground. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502278#502278 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:55 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Tail wheel assembly PhilWhile I recognize you as a highly experienced Europa builder, I pass along two modifications to the stock Europa tailwheel which have been recommended to me by others. First, add a stop to prevent the tailwheel from rotating more than approximately 30 deg in either direction...shown below is a half inch thick aluminum stopmine came to me as part of the Singleton tail wheel mod. Second, I cut off the ears of the stock fitting and made up a bracket from 1/8=9D 4130 plate configured to a design suggested to me by William Mills, RIP, which has two beneficial attributes: there are 3 sets of holes which allow for adjusting the sensitivity of rudder pedal inputs(the outermost set of holes for the novice and allowing for less sensitivity, and by using the innermost sets of holes the result is less sensitivity and decreased turning radius) and the sets of holes are further forward than the holes in the stock =9Cears=9D so that string lines dropping thru the holes are perfectly aligned with the vertical tail wheel pivot rod which decreases the strain on the entire assembly. PS: Ignore the bronze split-bolts shown in lieu of the second set of nicopress sleeves. > On Jun 7, 2021, at 2:27 AM, flyingphil2 wrote: > I'm looking for all the parts to make a complete XS tailwheel assembly. > I ideally want new, unused parts - does anyone have any bits lying around that they'd like to sell? > > Thanks, > Phil > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502262#502262 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.