Today's Message Index:
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1. 04:30 AM - Re: Jacking Mono (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
2. 08:40 AM - Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? (rparigoris)
3. 09:11 AM - Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? (fklein@orcasonline.com)
4. 09:41 AM - Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? (rparigoris)
5. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? (Robert Borger)
6. 11:50 AM - Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? (rparigoris)
7. 02:03 PM - Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines (budyerly@msn.com)
8. 03:36 PM - Re: Jacking Mono (budyerly@msn.com)
9. 05:10 PM - Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines (Griffo)
10. 05:39 PM - Jacking Mono (timward)
11. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines (Bud Yerly)
12. 06:15 PM - Re: Jacking Mono (Bud Yerly)
13. 08:56 PM - Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines (Griffo)
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Subject: | Re: Jacking Mono |
Peter, Lifting the plane via an engine hoist is a good solution if you
have one! Otherwise you can lift a Europa via its wings although you
need to be extremely careful that the load is well spread. Dealing with
a puncture on a trigear is relatively easy by getting someone to lift
the wing on the punctured side and putting a well padded trestle under
that wing to keep the punctured wheel off the ground. this technique
could be doubled up to get a mono off the ground, but there are better
methods. I would recommend making a jacking block as in the picture the
two sawn off coach bolts fit into two equivalent holes drilled in the
U/C arm and that gives a firm horizontal surface for putting any
conventional jack under. This was the only solution available when my
friend suffered a puncture on one of the Arran Islands. It is also worth
considering building a dolly, which makes all maintenance tasks very
much easier. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2021-06-17 23:03, Peter pender wrote:
>
> A question if I may, can you jack a mono off the wings or should it be
> lifted from the fuse/engine frame. Wishing to check flap/gear
> retraction.
> Cheers Peter
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502419#502419
>
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Subject: | Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? |
Hi Group
Curious, John Hurst spoke of saving ones-self with a Mono after a gear up landing
or flat if no tools were available.
He said you could remove right wing and stabilator, then put floor mats under fuse
and roll aeroplane with port wing sticking up in air.
Has anyone actually done this?
Thx. Ron P.
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Subject: | Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? |
> On Jun 19, 2021, at 8:40 AM, rparigoris <rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> He said you could remove right wing and stabilator, then put floor
mats under fuse and roll aeroplane with port wing sticking up in air.
And how many trusted bystanders would it take to keep that port wing
vertical?
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Subject: | Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? |
Hi Fred
Be interesting to hear from someone who has done this maneuver to know for sure
and know if rope on starboard side of aeroplane was part of it. A picture would
be great. A picture of long wing variant would be even more great!
To specifically answer your question, the best I can do is say it will probably
take less trusted bystanders than it did to actually lift a Cessna 310 by hand
that my friend had a gear collapse on, on a Sunday evening. It took a heard
and all the friends an entire skydiving gaggle! Ron P.
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Subject: | Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? |
Im curious to know how you handle the horizontal stab during this maneuver?
> On Jun 19, 2021, at 11:41 AM, rparigoris <rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Fred
> Be interesting to hear from someone who has done this maneuver to know for sure
and know if rope on starboard side of aeroplane was part of it. A picture would
be great. A picture of long wing variant would be even more great!
> To specifically answer your question, the best I can do is say it will probably
take less trusted bystanders than it did to actually lift a Cessna 310 by hand
that my friend had a gear collapse on, on a Sunday evening. It took a heard
and all the friends an entire skydiving gaggle! Ron P.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502452#502452
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? |
Hi Bob
John said he removes Starboard wing and Starboard horizontal stab, so you only
have a round spar to deal with?
Ron P.
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Subject: | Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines |
On the topic of hoses.
Gas lines:
Any of the new lined hose that is (R7 or better) EPA compliant seems to outlast
the 5 year time frame as a fuel line. So far at 7 years, with AvGas, my hoses
are in superb shape still. Those using auto fuel with ethanol seem to also
hold up well. And these lined hoses don't stick up the plane. See the hose manufacturers
recommended clamps.
As far as coolant hoses:
Silicone coolant hoses seem to hold up fantastic. I would consider going no longer
than 10 years with silicone personally. The failure areas of the silicone
hoses seem to be the clamping area as they are not as tough without an exterior
liner. Do your research.
The hose clamp area and the type of clamp is always a concern especially with silicone
coolant hose. HPS makes a nice lined hose, but find a 17mm hose size.
A Breeze clamp over tight tears through the hose as the thread cuts in the clamp
will tear up hose as will cheap thin clamps. Lined hose clamps are always
better. These type clamps are still a pain to get off, but they seal better
and they help the hose last. Spring clamps on the coolant hoses when properly
sized and fit hold up well with the silicone hoses. Be careful to use the properly
sized clamps.
Note the rubber coolant hoses hold up well on the top of the engine. The lower
hoses when exposed to reflective heat near the exhaust tend to show heat damage
and brittleness if exposed to the exhaust heat. I'm a fan of using heat reflective
sleeve over all the hoses on the bottom of the engine.
Oil Lines:
Pay particular attention to the oil line on the bottom banjo bolt as it can get
quite hot and I've seen them get brittle and crumble in only a few years (3 to
be exact). With heat sleeving completely covering the oil line and clamp, they
last a bit longer but bear watching. Do your research on hoses of choice.
Remember, barbed connectors tend to damage the liners of hoses, so if removing
a hose that is lined or silicone coolant hoses to facilitate other maintenance,
inspect them well for damage after removal. If they are damaged, of course,
replace them.
Just my thoughts.
Bud Yerly
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Subject: | Re: Jacking Mono |
I've had to help recover a couple of collapsed gear mono's and a couple of trigears
with destroyed nose gears.
In my opinion, the best and fastest way is get a mono up safely and off a runway
or out of a field is a wrecker with an extension hoist arm..
I prefer to pull the top of the cowl and attach a strap to the the gear frame.
Lift slightly with the extended arm of the crane and pull the plane to a safe
location. Get the main down when safe and stable and get it locked down. If
it won't lock down?
Remove the wings, tail planes if the crane can't handle much weight and simply
pull the fuselage to an area where you can safely pull the gear down. If the
gear is badly damaged and cannot be safely lowered and locked, use straps, foam,
shoring or padding to protect the fuselage from rolling around on the flatbed.
I have an electric winch on my flatbed so with some ply I can pull a mono
fuselage up onto my trailer even in the mud. Although in hind sight a tractor
would have been handy with a back hoe on it. You can get up to the axles in
mud in a field with a tow truck and trailer.
Normally the mono gear will extend and can be locked. A forward facing trolley
will hold even a damaged or unlocked gear. In my case I've used the trolley
confidently and using plywood rolled the aircraft out of the mud on ply sheets.
Egyptians used planks and rollers, and that will work also.
At KPCM, if on hard surface or blocking the runway, I just use the engine hoist
and jack the plane high enough to slide a 4 wheel automotive trolley under the
main and pull to the hangar to clear the runway quickly. Without a trolley,
It looks funny like the Keystone Cops as we have used an engine hoist attached
to the plane, and pulled the hoist using a rope and golf cart with two of us
standing on the engine hoist to keep the engine hoist from tipping aft and the
plane swinging forward where it may hit the hydraulic jack. You do what you
have to do when you have limited equipment. After that I found a single 4 wheel
trolley (the kind that fits under all four auto tires to allow the car to
be rolled around) and keep it handy at all times. We keep one at KPCM also for
flat tires. To change the tire in the hangar or if you have a spare wheel,
if it is just a mono flat tire, use a jack pad and practice its use and roll your
spare wheel into place. Most airports don't like the runway closed that long.
If you knock the nose gear off of a trigear. I have always been lucky and had
a spare nose gear from a kit, but if not, I jack with the wrecker or engine hoist
and pull to a safe area. Remove the nose gear (use a saws-all to cut the
springs off or the stub if you must. Next I make a short saw horse tripod and
put the assembly on my rolling wheel dolly to get it carefully on my flatbed
or if that it is not available; pull slowly to the hangar for proper work.
If time critical, I fashion a weight to the rear tie down or remove the stabs
and couple of ropes with weights attached to the stab tubes. Don't tow this way
carelessly. Pull the plane with great caution as it can tip up again on the
nose doing more damage.
If it is a trigear main wheel, simply put your back under the spar and have the
airport attendant or assistant slide your car wheel dolly under what is left
of the main. I've never seen a whole main gear leg ripped off from a bad landing.
Anyway, that is how I did it and no further damage occurred to the aircraft. I
don't think I would roll the plane on its side using one wing since every airport
I know has an engine hoist or we can get a wrecker there in a timely manner.
The problem is getting the airport authorities to comply with your request.
They can be quite a pain and use slings around the wings and destroy flaps
and leading edges. They don't care. And many not even listen to you as "They
have a procedure"!
Be prepared to foot the bill. A farmer who volunteers his tractor and plywood
deserves a good tip. Airport authorities and their crash recovery folks are another
story all together.
Just my experience,
Bud Yerly
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Subject: | Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines |
Great advise Bud -
I, always "as tight as a bulls arse in the fly season" , have come up with my own
heat shielding systems, that actually seem to work, as hoses removed/replaced
at 5 years, are still good enough to be recycled for use in ground based equipment.
Depending on location, I use a combination of malleable builders aluminium "flashing"
or very thin aluminum sheet (scraps of aircraft skin also). For hoses
that are exposed to very high heat, I supplemented with exhaust bandage, silicone
glued to inside of aluminium. I use safety wire to hold/clamp the insulation
in place.
For over-engine fuel lines - automotive corrugated sleeve, wrapped in air-conditioners
reflective foil.
For the most part , the shielding I have made up, can be reused at the 5 year interval.
Oh! and yes I appreciate that the automotive corrugated tubing is flammable and
would contribute to an engine fuel fire.
As far as weight goes - dont know, but would be minimal as shielding only used
where hoses may be exposed to significant radiant/convection heat.
--------
46
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=EF=BB=9CI've had to help recover a couple of collapsed gear mono's
and a couple of trigears with destroyed nose gears.=9D
Hi Bud,
=46rom experience and a good thing to know, the local airport fire service h
ave excellent huge inflatable bags of differing size they use for lifting he
avy things. Ideal for lifting Monowheel Europa aircraft! One under each wing
root/spar area and within 20 mins they had my machine lifted to enable the l
owering of the undercarriage. Very easy structurally sound. Saved the day! S
heepishly I pulled the aircraft into the hangar and lowered the doors. 2004.
Never again!
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPad
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
> On 20/06/2021, at 10:44 AM, budyerly@msn.com wrote:
> I've had to help recover a couple of collapsed gear mono's and a couple of
trigears with destroyed nose gears.
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Subject: | Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines |
Griffo,
I still use the red fire sleeve for fuel lines. I like Parker / Aeroquip 12 or
10 sized PN FBS2200 fire sleeve. I prefer Parker Stratoflex as it is more flexible.
Aeroquip is very stiff and is poor for anything under a 2 inch bend
radius. To seal the fuzzy cut ends use either Firewall 2000 or Permatex Red Silicone
RTV or it looks like hell .
Banding if desired is: 10781-4 clamp to secure fire sleeve material over the basic
fabricated hose assembly if desired.
For shielding for my coolant tubes and oil lines I use the expensive and somewhat
delicate Thermo-Tec sleeving. For lower engine coolant and oil lines I use:
Thermo-Tec Thermo-Sleeve P/N:14015 for 1 to 1.5 inch hoses, and P/N: 14011 for
5/8 to 3/4 It lasts 5 years but if it gets covered with coolant the darned
aluminum reflective material falls off. Very fire resistant. Nothing wrong with
the corrugated aluminum over the one inch lines, as it holds up and its tough.
Yea, I know what you mean about the stick on aluminum. I stay away from the aluminized
stick on tape because of the fire thing. Why they have a flammable glue,
I don't know why.
I'm not a fan of aluminum flashing because I leave far too much blood and stains
on the edges when working on or around the engine. Of course, I do my trigear
behind the gear firewall with .016 stainless, but I rivet or screw it down
and use the 3M Firebarrier firewall 2000 sealant. I really like that stuff.
Try it on holding the aluminum or stainless on. Works great and not that costly.
Silicone based, so it is fireproof and a "reasonable" glue and better sealant.
I like it for protecting the cowl where the exhaust is just a little too
close to the cowl, but not close enough to require a cut and reshape of the
cowl. I use that asbestos aluminum/stainless firewall material. It is great
stuff to experience the "die by a thousand cuts" torture. My fingers suffer as
I can't work the stuff with gloves on. I trim it so the stainless side folds
over the raw edge of asbestos side (or whatever that stuff inside is) and then
I just glue it in place with the sealant. It is like a razor blade though
and slow to work with to get it nice and neat. Really works well for both insulation
and fireproofing and I wouldn't do a trigear without it. I never use
it on a mono unless on the cowl which is just a left over scrap from another trigear
I finished. I put a torch to it and I felt nothing on the other side.
All the best,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Griffo
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 8:10 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines
Great advise Bud -
I, always "as tight as a bulls arse in the fly season" , have come up with my own
heat shielding systems, that actually seem to work, as hoses removed/replaced
at 5 years, are still good enough to be recycled for use in ground based equipment.
Depending on location, I use a combination of malleable builders aluminium "flashing"
or very thin aluminum sheet (scraps of aircraft skin also). For hoses
that are exposed to very high heat, I supplemented with exhaust bandage, silicone
glued to inside of aluminium. I use safety wire to hold/clamp the insulation
in place.
For over-engine fuel lines - automotive corrugated sleeve, wrapped in air-conditioners
reflective foil.
For the most part , the shielding I have made up, can be reused at the 5 year interval.
Oh! and yes I appreciate that the automotive corrugated tubing is flammable and
would contribute to an engine fuel fire.
As far as weight goes - dont know, but would be minimal as shielding only used
where hoses may be exposed to significant radiant/convection heat.
--------
46
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Subject: | Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines |
Bud - you made me laugh - I have been playing with machinery for 50 years or so
and have come to the conclusion - if you dont donate a bit of blood/skin you
havent sacrificed enough to the the job. :D
As always, a very informative & thought provoking reply - my thanks
--------
46
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