---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/19/21: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:30 AM - Re: Jacking Mono (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 2. 08:40 AM - Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? (rparigoris) 3. 09:11 AM - Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? (fklein@orcasonline.com) 4. 09:41 AM - Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? (rparigoris) 5. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? (Robert Borger) 6. 11:50 AM - Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? (rparigoris) 7. 02:03 PM - Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines (budyerly@msn.com) 8. 03:36 PM - Re: Jacking Mono (budyerly@msn.com) 9. 05:10 PM - Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines (Griffo) 10. 05:39 PM - Jacking Mono (timward) 11. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines (Bud Yerly) 12. 06:15 PM - Re: Jacking Mono (Bud Yerly) 13. 08:56 PM - Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines (Griffo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:31 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jacking Mono Peter, Lifting the plane via an engine hoist is a good solution if you have one! Otherwise you can lift a Europa via its wings although you need to be extremely careful that the load is well spread. Dealing with a puncture on a trigear is relatively easy by getting someone to lift the wing on the punctured side and putting a well padded trestle under that wing to keep the punctured wheel off the ground. this technique could be doubled up to get a mono off the ground, but there are better methods. I would recommend making a jacking block as in the picture the two sawn off coach bolts fit into two equivalent holes drilled in the U/C arm and that gives a firm horizontal surface for putting any conventional jack under. This was the only solution available when my friend suffered a puncture on one of the Arran Islands. It is also worth considering building a dolly, which makes all maintenance tasks very much easier. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2021-06-17 23:03, Peter pender wrote: > > A question if I may, can you jack a mono off the wings or should it be > lifted from the fuse/engine frame. Wishing to check flap/gear > retraction. > Cheers Peter > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502419#502419 > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:48 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? From: "rparigoris" Hi Group Curious, John Hurst spoke of saving ones-self with a Mono after a gear up landing or flat if no tools were available. He said you could remove right wing and stabilator, then put floor mats under fuse and roll aeroplane with port wing sticking up in air. Has anyone actually done this? Thx. Ron P. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502449#502449 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:54 AM PST US From: "fklein@orcasonline.com" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? > On Jun 19, 2021, at 8:40 AM, rparigoris wrote: > > He said you could remove right wing and stabilator, then put floor mats under fuse and roll aeroplane with port wing sticking up in air. And how many trusted bystanders would it take to keep that port wing vertical? ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:33 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? From: "rparigoris" Hi Fred Be interesting to hear from someone who has done this maneuver to know for sure and know if rope on starboard side of aeroplane was part of it. A picture would be great. A picture of long wing variant would be even more great! To specifically answer your question, the best I can do is say it will probably take less trusted bystanders than it did to actually lift a Cessna 310 by hand that my friend had a gear collapse on, on a Sunday evening. It took a heard and all the friends an entire skydiving gaggle! Ron P. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502452#502452 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:23:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? From: Robert Borger Im curious to know how you handle the horizontal stab during this maneuver? > On Jun 19, 2021, at 11:41 AM, rparigoris wrote: > > > Hi Fred > Be interesting to hear from someone who has done this maneuver to know for sure and know if rope on starboard side of aeroplane was part of it. A picture would be great. A picture of long wing variant would be even more great! > To specifically answer your question, the best I can do is say it will probably take less trusted bystanders than it did to actually lift a Cessna 310 by hand that my friend had a gear collapse on, on a Sunday evening. It took a heard and all the friends an entire skydiving gaggle! Ron P. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502452#502452 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:57 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Jacking up Mono after gear up or flat? From: "rparigoris" Hi Bob John said he removes Starboard wing and Starboard horizontal stab, so you only have a round spar to deal with? Ron P. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502455#502455 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:12 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines From: "budyerly@msn.com" On the topic of hoses. Gas lines: Any of the new lined hose that is (R7 or better) EPA compliant seems to outlast the 5 year time frame as a fuel line. So far at 7 years, with AvGas, my hoses are in superb shape still. Those using auto fuel with ethanol seem to also hold up well. And these lined hoses don't stick up the plane. See the hose manufacturers recommended clamps. As far as coolant hoses: Silicone coolant hoses seem to hold up fantastic. I would consider going no longer than 10 years with silicone personally. The failure areas of the silicone hoses seem to be the clamping area as they are not as tough without an exterior liner. Do your research. The hose clamp area and the type of clamp is always a concern especially with silicone coolant hose. HPS makes a nice lined hose, but find a 17mm hose size. A Breeze clamp over tight tears through the hose as the thread cuts in the clamp will tear up hose as will cheap thin clamps. Lined hose clamps are always better. These type clamps are still a pain to get off, but they seal better and they help the hose last. Spring clamps on the coolant hoses when properly sized and fit hold up well with the silicone hoses. Be careful to use the properly sized clamps. Note the rubber coolant hoses hold up well on the top of the engine. The lower hoses when exposed to reflective heat near the exhaust tend to show heat damage and brittleness if exposed to the exhaust heat. I'm a fan of using heat reflective sleeve over all the hoses on the bottom of the engine. Oil Lines: Pay particular attention to the oil line on the bottom banjo bolt as it can get quite hot and I've seen them get brittle and crumble in only a few years (3 to be exact). With heat sleeving completely covering the oil line and clamp, they last a bit longer but bear watching. Do your research on hoses of choice. Remember, barbed connectors tend to damage the liners of hoses, so if removing a hose that is lined or silicone coolant hoses to facilitate other maintenance, inspect them well for damage after removal. If they are damaged, of course, replace them. Just my thoughts. Bud Yerly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502458#502458 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:24 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Jacking Mono From: "budyerly@msn.com" I've had to help recover a couple of collapsed gear mono's and a couple of trigears with destroyed nose gears. In my opinion, the best and fastest way is get a mono up safely and off a runway or out of a field is a wrecker with an extension hoist arm.. I prefer to pull the top of the cowl and attach a strap to the the gear frame. Lift slightly with the extended arm of the crane and pull the plane to a safe location. Get the main down when safe and stable and get it locked down. If it won't lock down? Remove the wings, tail planes if the crane can't handle much weight and simply pull the fuselage to an area where you can safely pull the gear down. If the gear is badly damaged and cannot be safely lowered and locked, use straps, foam, shoring or padding to protect the fuselage from rolling around on the flatbed. I have an electric winch on my flatbed so with some ply I can pull a mono fuselage up onto my trailer even in the mud. Although in hind sight a tractor would have been handy with a back hoe on it. You can get up to the axles in mud in a field with a tow truck and trailer. Normally the mono gear will extend and can be locked. A forward facing trolley will hold even a damaged or unlocked gear. In my case I've used the trolley confidently and using plywood rolled the aircraft out of the mud on ply sheets. Egyptians used planks and rollers, and that will work also. At KPCM, if on hard surface or blocking the runway, I just use the engine hoist and jack the plane high enough to slide a 4 wheel automotive trolley under the main and pull to the hangar to clear the runway quickly. Without a trolley, It looks funny like the Keystone Cops as we have used an engine hoist attached to the plane, and pulled the hoist using a rope and golf cart with two of us standing on the engine hoist to keep the engine hoist from tipping aft and the plane swinging forward where it may hit the hydraulic jack. You do what you have to do when you have limited equipment. After that I found a single 4 wheel trolley (the kind that fits under all four auto tires to allow the car to be rolled around) and keep it handy at all times. We keep one at KPCM also for flat tires. To change the tire in the hangar or if you have a spare wheel, if it is just a mono flat tire, use a jack pad and practice its use and roll your spare wheel into place. Most airports don't like the runway closed that long. If you knock the nose gear off of a trigear. I have always been lucky and had a spare nose gear from a kit, but if not, I jack with the wrecker or engine hoist and pull to a safe area. Remove the nose gear (use a saws-all to cut the springs off or the stub if you must. Next I make a short saw horse tripod and put the assembly on my rolling wheel dolly to get it carefully on my flatbed or if that it is not available; pull slowly to the hangar for proper work. If time critical, I fashion a weight to the rear tie down or remove the stabs and couple of ropes with weights attached to the stab tubes. Don't tow this way carelessly. Pull the plane with great caution as it can tip up again on the nose doing more damage. If it is a trigear main wheel, simply put your back under the spar and have the airport attendant or assistant slide your car wheel dolly under what is left of the main. I've never seen a whole main gear leg ripped off from a bad landing. Anyway, that is how I did it and no further damage occurred to the aircraft. I don't think I would roll the plane on its side using one wing since every airport I know has an engine hoist or we can get a wrecker there in a timely manner. The problem is getting the airport authorities to comply with your request. They can be quite a pain and use slings around the wings and destroy flaps and leading edges. They don't care. And many not even listen to you as "They have a procedure"! Be prepared to foot the bill. A farmer who volunteers his tractor and plywood deserves a good tip. Airport authorities and their crash recovery folks are another story all together. Just my experience, Bud Yerly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502461#502461 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:13 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines From: "Griffo" Great advise Bud - I, always "as tight as a bulls arse in the fly season" , have come up with my own heat shielding systems, that actually seem to work, as hoses removed/replaced at 5 years, are still good enough to be recycled for use in ground based equipment. Depending on location, I use a combination of malleable builders aluminium "flashing" or very thin aluminum sheet (scraps of aircraft skin also). For hoses that are exposed to very high heat, I supplemented with exhaust bandage, silicone glued to inside of aluminium. I use safety wire to hold/clamp the insulation in place. For over-engine fuel lines - automotive corrugated sleeve, wrapped in air-conditioners reflective foil. For the most part , the shielding I have made up, can be reused at the 5 year interval. Oh! and yes I appreciate that the automotive corrugated tubing is flammable and would contribute to an engine fuel fire. As far as weight goes - dont know, but would be minimal as shielding only used where hoses may be exposed to significant radiant/convection heat. -------- 46 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502462#502462 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:47 PM PST US From: timward Subject: Europa-List: Jacking Mono =EF=BB=9CI've had to help recover a couple of collapsed gear mono's and a couple of trigears with destroyed nose gears.=9D Hi Bud, =46rom experience and a good thing to know, the local airport fire service h ave excellent huge inflatable bags of differing size they use for lifting he avy things. Ideal for lifting Monowheel Europa aircraft! One under each wing root/spar area and within 20 mins they had my machine lifted to enable the l owering of the undercarriage. Very easy structurally sound. Saved the day! S heepishly I pulled the aircraft into the hangar and lowered the doors. 2004. Never again! Cheers, Tim Sent from my iPad Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz 021 0640221 > On 20/06/2021, at 10:44 AM, budyerly@msn.com wrote: > I've had to help recover a couple of collapsed gear mono's and a couple of trigears with destroyed nose gears. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:58 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines Griffo, I still use the red fire sleeve for fuel lines. I like Parker / Aeroquip 12 or 10 sized PN FBS2200 fire sleeve. I prefer Parker Stratoflex as it is more flexible. Aeroquip is very stiff and is poor for anything under a 2 inch bend radius. To seal the fuzzy cut ends use either Firewall 2000 or Permatex Red Silicone RTV or it looks like hell . Banding if desired is: 10781-4 clamp to secure fire sleeve material over the basic fabricated hose assembly if desired. For shielding for my coolant tubes and oil lines I use the expensive and somewhat delicate Thermo-Tec sleeving. For lower engine coolant and oil lines I use: Thermo-Tec Thermo-Sleeve P/N:14015 for 1 to 1.5 inch hoses, and P/N: 14011 for 5/8 to 3/4 It lasts 5 years but if it gets covered with coolant the darned aluminum reflective material falls off. Very fire resistant. Nothing wrong with the corrugated aluminum over the one inch lines, as it holds up and its tough. Yea, I know what you mean about the stick on aluminum. I stay away from the aluminized stick on tape because of the fire thing. Why they have a flammable glue, I don't know why. I'm not a fan of aluminum flashing because I leave far too much blood and stains on the edges when working on or around the engine. Of course, I do my trigear behind the gear firewall with .016 stainless, but I rivet or screw it down and use the 3M Firebarrier firewall 2000 sealant. I really like that stuff. Try it on holding the aluminum or stainless on. Works great and not that costly. Silicone based, so it is fireproof and a "reasonable" glue and better sealant. I like it for protecting the cowl where the exhaust is just a little too close to the cowl, but not close enough to require a cut and reshape of the cowl. I use that asbestos aluminum/stainless firewall material. It is great stuff to experience the "die by a thousand cuts" torture. My fingers suffer as I can't work the stuff with gloves on. I trim it so the stainless side folds over the raw edge of asbestos side (or whatever that stuff inside is) and then I just glue it in place with the sealant. It is like a razor blade though and slow to work with to get it nice and neat. Really works well for both insulation and fireproofing and I wouldn't do a trigear without it. I never use it on a mono unless on the cowl which is just a left over scrap from another trigear I finished. I put a torch to it and I felt nothing on the other side. All the best, Bud Yerly -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of Griffo Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 8:10 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines Great advise Bud - I, always "as tight as a bulls arse in the fly season" , have come up with my own heat shielding systems, that actually seem to work, as hoses removed/replaced at 5 years, are still good enough to be recycled for use in ground based equipment. Depending on location, I use a combination of malleable builders aluminium "flashing" or very thin aluminum sheet (scraps of aircraft skin also). For hoses that are exposed to very high heat, I supplemented with exhaust bandage, silicone glued to inside of aluminium. I use safety wire to hold/clamp the insulation in place. For over-engine fuel lines - automotive corrugated sleeve, wrapped in air-conditioners reflective foil. For the most part , the shielding I have made up, can be reused at the 5 year interval. Oh! and yes I appreciate that the automotive corrugated tubing is flammable and would contribute to an engine fuel fire. As far as weight goes - dont know, but would be minimal as shielding only used where hoses may be exposed to significant radiant/convection heat. -------- 46 Read this topic online here: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D502462%23502462&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7de253223406419bc6f308d93380510e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637597448468289858%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Im3k33BYazAFMT8uB%2BaanaWoAnNUa%2FWRSqePiDViDA0%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:18 PM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Jacking Mono SSB3aXNoIG91cnMgaGFkIHRob3NlIGFpciBiYWdzLg0KQnVkDQoNCkZyb206IG93bmVyLWV1cm9w YS1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIDxvd25lci1ldXJvcGEtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0 cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIHRpbXdhcmQNClNlbnQ6IFNhdHVyZGF5LCBKdW5lIDE5 LCAyMDIxIDg6MzkgUE0NClRvOiBldXJvcGEtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBF dXJvcGEtTGlzdDogSmFja2luZyBNb25vDQoNCu+7v+KAnEkndmUgaGFkIHRvIGhlbHAgcmVjb3Zl ciBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBjb2xsYXBzZWQgZ2VhciBtb25vJ3MgYW5kIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIHRyaWdl YXJzIHdpdGggZGVzdHJveWVkIG5vc2UgZ2VhcnMu4oCdDQoNCg0KSGkgQnVkLA0KRnJvbSBleHBl cmllbmNlIGFuZCBhIGdvb2QgdGhpbmcgdG8ga25vdywgdGhlIGxvY2FsIGFpcnBvcnQgZmlyZSBz ZXJ2aWNlIGhhdmUgZXhjZWxsZW50IGh1Z2UgaW5mbGF0YWJsZSBiYWdzIG9mIGRpZmZlcmluZyBz aXplIHRoZXkgdXNlIGZvciBsaWZ0aW5nIGhlYXZ5IHRoaW5ncy4gSWRlYWwgZm9yIGxpZnRpbmcg TW9ub3doZWVsIEV1cm9wYSBhaXJjcmFmdCEgT25lIHVuZGVyIGVhY2ggd2luZyByb290L3NwYXIg YXJlYSBhbmQgd2l0aGluIDIwIG1pbnMgdGhleSBoYWQgbXkgbWFjaGluZSBsaWZ0ZWQgdG8gZW5h YmxlIHRoZSBsb3dlcmluZyBvZiB0aGUgdW5kZXJjYXJyaWFnZS4gVmVyeSBlYXN5IHN0cnVjdHVy YWxseSBzb3VuZC4gU2F2ZWQgdGhlIGRheSEgU2hlZXBpc2hseSBJIHB1bGxlZCB0aGUgYWlyY3Jh ZnQgaW50byB0aGUgaGFuZ2FyIGFuZCBsb3dlcmVkIHRoZSBkb29ycy4gMjAwNC4gTmV2ZXIgYWdh aW4hDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpUaW0NClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBpUGFkDQpUaW0gV2FyZA0KMTIgV2Fpd2V0 dSBTdHJlZXQsDQpGZW5kYWx0b24sDQpDaHJpc3RjaHVyY2gsIDgwNTINCk5ldyBaZWFsYW5kLg0K d2FyZC50QHh0cmEuY28ubno8bWFpbHRvOndhcmQudEB4dHJhLmNvLm56Pg0KMDIxIDA2NDAyMjEN Cg0KDQpPbiAyMC8wNi8yMDIxLCBhdCAxMDo0NCBBTSwgYnVkeWVybHlAbXNuLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86 YnVkeWVybHlAbXNuLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQpJJ3ZlIGhhZCB0byBoZWxwIHJlY292ZXIgYSBjb3Vw bGUgb2YgY29sbGFwc2VkIGdlYXIgbW9ubydzIGFuZCBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiB0cmlnZWFycyB3aXRo IGRlc3Ryb3llZCBub3NlIGdlYXJzLg0K ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:58 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: 914 draining coolant and changing coolant lines From: "Griffo" Bud - you made me laugh - I have been playing with machinery for 50 years or so and have come to the conclusion - if you dont donate a bit of blood/skin you havent sacrificed enough to the the job. :D As always, a very informative & thought provoking reply - my thanks -------- 46 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502468#502468 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.