Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:28 AM - Is Mod 38 a good idea? (tonyvaccarella)
2. 04:57 AM - Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? (Alan Burrill)
3. 05:01 AM - Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
4. 06:58 AM - Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? (D McFadyean)
5. 07:17 AM - Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? (Steve Ivell)
6. 07:23 AM - Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? (Bud Yerly)
7. 07:45 AM - Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? ()
8. 07:54 AM - Nose wheel bearings (david park)
9. 09:02 AM - Re: Nose wheel bearings (Bud Yerly)
10. 09:25 AM - Re: Nose wheel bearings (Bud Yerly)
11. 10:12 AM - Re: Oshkosh 2021 (Jeffrey Williams)
12. 10:27 AM - Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? (rparigoris)
13. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? (Bud Yerly)
14. 11:39 AM - Re: Oshkosh 2021 (Michael Grass)
15. 01:30 PM - Re: Oshkosh 2021 (h&jeuropa)
Message 1
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Subject: | Is Mod 38 a good idea? |
I only just became aware of this Mod that drills 2 x 1/8 holes at the rear of the
fuel vent. From what I read, its intent is to prevent too much pressure being
developed in the forward facing vent and therefore within the fuel tank.
Having some pitot pressure, I would have thought, would be desirable.
Im interested to know who has incorporated this Mod and would you recommend it?
Europa lists it as desirable.
Thanks
Tony
Sydney Aust
--------
Tony Vaccarella
Mascot NSW 2020
Sydney Australia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502573#502573
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Subject: | Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? |
It certainly done on mine. Not sure that the resulting pressure is of any significant
benefit though if not done.
I thought that part of the reason was to prevent debris blocking the forward facing
vents in flight and so providing an alternate venting source.
May be a myth but worth considering.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 24 Jun 2021, at 12:30, tonyvaccarella <tony@weimagine.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> I only just became aware of this Mod that drills 2 x 1/8 holes at the rear of
the fuel vent. From what I read, its intent is to prevent too much pressure being
developed in the forward facing vent and therefore within the fuel tank.
>
> Having some pitot pressure, I would have thought, would be desirable.
>
> Im interested to know who has incorporated this Mod and would you recommend it?
Europa lists it as desirable.
>
> Thanks
> Tony
> Sydney Aust
>
> --------
> Tony Vaccarella
> Mascot NSW 2020
> Sydney Australia
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502573#502573
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? |
Tony, I had the impression when I built mine that 5his was standard
build requirement rather than a mod. It has worked well for 20 years.
Could be that it also lets some or all of the water that comes in if you
fly though rain (which of course in the UK we are prone to!) out again.
In fact I have flown through quite a bit of rain but have never found
any water in my Andair gascolator, which is situated at thr lowest point
in the system.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2021-06-24 12:27, tonyvaccarella wrote:
> <tony@weimagine.com.au>
>
> I only just became aware of this Mod that drills 2 x 1/8EUR holes at
> the rear of the fuel vent. From what I read, itEUR(tm)s intent is to
> prevent too much pressure being developed in the forward facing vent
> and therefore within the fuel tank.
>
> Having some EURpitotEUR pressure, I would have thought, would be
> desirable.
>
> Im interested to know who has incorporated this Mod and would you
> recommend it? Europa lists it as desirable.
>
> Thanks
> Tony
> Sydney Aust
>
> --------
> Tony Vaccarella
> Mascot NSW 2020
> Sydney Australia
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502573#502573
>
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Subject: | Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? |
The Mod was introduced following the experiences of John Tye flying in rain, when
water entry to the fuel tank via the forward-facing vents was suspected as
the source of a rough running engine. It seems to work!
Duncan McF.
> On 24 June 2021 at 12:27 tonyvaccarella <tony@weimagine.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>
> I only just became aware of this Mod that drills 2 x 1/8 holes at the rear of
the fuel vent. From what I read, its intent is to prevent too much pressure being
developed in the forward facing vent and therefore within the fuel tank.
>
> Having some pitot pressure, I would have thought, would be desirable.
>
> Im interested to know who has incorporated this Mod and would you recommend it?
Europa lists it as desirable.
>
> Thanks
> Tony
> Sydney Aust
>
> --------
> Tony Vaccarella
> Mascot NSW 2020
> Sydney Australia
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502573#502573
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Is Mod 38 a good idea? |
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Message 6
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Subject: | Is Mod 38 a good idea? |
Tony,
Kitplanes did a nice review of fuel tank vent types.
On the Europa, drilling the base was for plugging concerns. With two forward facing
vents (one vent and one sight gauge) on top of the Europa with holes at
the base, the tank will vent in the event of plugging on the front as air can
enter the holes at the base, and the sight gauge vent could also vent the tank
if needed at the loss of a fuel gauge. Because the Europa designed vents are
located in a low pressure area on top of the fuselage, in a steep turn to the
right, with the tank nearly full of fuel, some fuel will be sucked out and down
the fuselage staining the back. The same problem exists if the fuel tank is
full to the neck and then expands. There is no concern with ram air pressure
from the forward facing vent on our system. At Vne, a vent tube only adds a
tiny fraction of pressure and bursting is not a concern. If you follow the build
manual you will be OK, but if you leave the plane outside, consider the issue
of rain entering the top side tubes unless covered. Jaxida aircraft covers
made a hump for the vents. Very nice. In my experience, the Europa vent design
accumulating water from rain, has not been an issue.
I place my vent on the bottom facing forward to get some pressure, but primarily
to prevent fuel staining and allow a drain if accidentally overfilling. Then
as the fuel warms, the expanding fuel has somewhere to go rather than staining
my paint. It is imperative that the bottom vent be drilled at the base with
two holes as mud or debris coming off the nose wheel could plug the tip. In
my design, there is no other way to vent the tank as in the Europa design. Not
a concern for me as I have a wheel panted trigear operating off of hard surface
runways. For guys flying off of muddy runways my system may not be advantageous.
A vent can be just a straight down pipe also if ice or debris is a concern.
This would be true for the Europa also. At the slow speeds of our aircraft
and a fuel draw of less than 12GPH (.2 gallons per minute) tank venting
requires a very small diameter vent to prevent fuel starvation as the engine draws
fuel from the tank. A vent of only 1/8 inch ID is sufficient in my calculations
for fuel delivery.
When filling the tank, venting is a different story. If filling from a commercial
fuel hose at full rate, expect to get wet with fuel. (If the one inch filling
hose is flowing at 5 gallons a minute under pressure, clearly a vent of the
same flow rate would be needed. Fill the Europa slowly from the commercial
pumps. Aircraft fuel trucks can flow at 10 plus gallons per minute and many
a line boy has been drenched.) Larger vents up to 3/8 ID have been tried, but
flow into a necked tank inlet hose to the tank can still be an issue of fuel
burping back. If fuel goes in rapidly, air must rapidly escape the tank. A fill
vent that comes back into the filler neck as on my design will still burp
back at you at a high rate of fill.
A fuel vent design can also be pointed down, horizontal or aft. Testing is the
key. Some positions would create a vacuum and the fuel delivery system (aircraft
pumps) must compensate. Icing can be a problem for some doing IFR ops.
The Europa doesn't do ice well so avoid it obviously. In my observations, those
aircraft using forward facing or angled forward pressure vents tend to have
gravity feed issues from the wing tanks. So, design of the fuel vents takes as
much planning sometimes as the fuel delivery to the engine. The older aircraft
often had vented caps only on their gravity feed fuel system and the low pressure
area over the wing was high enough that fuel was restricted from flowing
to the engine on takeoff.
In any case, never take your fuel vent for granted. Our Europa fuel cap is sealed
fairly tight, therefore the only way the engine can draw fuel out of the tank
is if there is a way for air to replace the fuel used at a rate higher than
the feed. On preflight, check the vent is clear. Don't assume that the fuel
fumes will keep an insect from building a nest in your vent(s). If operating
off of muddy runways, think about the affects on your fuel vent on the bottom.
If it is damaged or clogged, fix it. If the engine sags on takeoff, reduce
power and return to land. Checking the engine is a must, but don't fail to
check your fuel vent. When refueling, fill the tank slowly if your tank venting
system is not capable of the flow rate of your fuel filler nozzle or you
will get a fuel bath.
Just my opinion,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of tonyvaccarella
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 7:28 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Is Mod 38 a good idea?
I only just became aware of this Mod that drills 2 x 1/8 holes at the rear of the
fuel vent. From what I read, its intent is to prevent too much pressure being
developed in the forward facing vent and therefore within the fuel tank.
Having some pitot pressure, I would have thought, would be desirable.
Im interested to know who has incorporated this Mod and would you recommend it?
Europa lists it as desirable.
Thanks
Tony
Sydney Aust
--------
Tony Vaccarella
Mascot NSW 2020
Sydney Australia
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D502573%23502573&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1989bfb41c584577edca08d93703b480%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637601311314071852%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=E9sxfy3ljlh487is8n4x4czQzbKWSCHvRChKh86MxeE%3D&reserved=0
Message 7
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Subject: | Is Mod 38 a good idea? |
Further to the other good reasons of avoiding blockage and rain ingress
already put forward, the mod 38 leaflet also says that the mod is: "To
minimise pressure changes due to changes in engine power or airspeed it
is desirable to avoid any pitot pressure in these vents." The reason
this is undesirable is not included in the leaflet, but it is simply
because the volume of air between the sight gauge vent inlet and the
column of fuel in the tube is much smaller than the volume of air
between the tank vent inlet and the fuel surface. Hence any change in
pitot pressure applied to both the vents would take much longer to
change the pressure in the tank than in the sight gauge, resulting in
false sight gauge readings until equilibrium was reached.
Mike
Dr Mike Gregory
Europa Club Safety Officer
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of D McFadyean
Sent: 24 June 2021 14:58
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Is Mod 38 a good idea?
--> < <mailto:ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net> ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>
The Mod was introduced following the experiences of John Tye flying in
rain, when water entry to the fuel tank via the forward-facing vents was
suspected as the source of a rough running engine. It seems to work!
Duncan McF.
> On 24 June 2021 at 12:27 tonyvaccarella <
<mailto:tony@weimagine.com.au> tony@weimagine.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> --> < <mailto:tony@weimagine.com.au> tony@weimagine.com.au>
>
> I only just became aware of this Mod that drills 2 x
1/8=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D holes at the rear of the fuel vent. From what I
read, it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s intent is to prevent too much pressure
being developed in the forward facing vent and therefore within the fuel
tank.
>
> Having some =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93pitot=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D pressure,
I would have thought, would be desirable.
>
> Im interested to know who has incorporated this Mod and would you
recommend it? Europa lists it as desirable.
>
> Thanks
> Tony
> Sydney Aust
>
> --------
> Tony Vaccarella
> Mascot NSW 2020
> Sydney Australia
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502573#502573>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502573#502573
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Nose wheel bearings |
Anyone have the nose wheel bearing spec handy?
Thanks
Dave Park
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Nose wheel bearings |
All the trigger bearings are the same, nose and main 1 1/4 inch. Timkin br
and preferred LM67000LA-CR. Number is on the bearing and on my website und
er spares.
Always keep two spares is my rule.
Bud Yerly
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of david park <dpark748@me.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 10:53:49 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Nose wheel bearings
Anyone have the nose wheel bearing spec handy?
Thanks
Dave Park
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Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Nose wheel bearings |
Dave,
Cell phone autocorrect gaff. Trigear, not Trigger.
Have I told you how much I am growing to hate tech?
Bud
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of david park <dpark748@me.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 10:53:49 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Nose wheel bearings
Anyone have the nose wheel bearing spec handy?
Thanks
Dave Park
%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0f75
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Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Oshkosh 2021 |
Hi Jim, et al:
I am a bit confused. My calendar says July 26th is a Monday. So, just for clarification,
is the Europa Forum on Monday July 26, or Tuesday July 27th, 2021?
Thanks in advance for the elucidation.
Regards,
Jeff W.
> On Jun 20, 2021, at 3:26 PM, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Oshkosh is scheduled for July 26 - Aug 1.
>
> The Europa Forum is scheduled for Tuesday, July 26 from 8:30 - 9:45 AM. The
location is the Homebuilders Hangar (same location as previous) which is in grid
K9 on the grounds map. The forum is casual, mostly a chance to meet.
>
> We're looking forward to seeing many of you!
>
> Jim & Heather
>
> PS There is a informal beer tasting Sunday, July 24 starting at 4PM in Homebuilt
Camping area (grid H8 on the grounds map). Bring some beer from home to
share!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502482#502482
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? |
Hi Group What's thoughts about venting fuel tanks to baggage area? Install a T
to exterior vent with a one way valve. If exterior vent becomes clogged, at least
air can get into tank somewhat?:
https://www.mcmaster.com/valves/check-valves-with-barbed-fittings-9/
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502586#502586
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea? |
Overkill Ron. Fuel fumes in the cockpit on the good/bad scale is BAD. Pre
flighting is all that's needed. Drill holes in the back.
Bud
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of rparigoris <rparigor@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 1:27:15 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Is Mod 38 a good idea?
Hi Group What's thoughts about venting fuel tanks to baggage area? Install
a T to exterior vent with a one way valve. If exterior vent becomes clogged
, at least air can get into tank somewhat?:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mcma
ster.com%2Fvalves%2Fcheck-valves-with-barbed-fittings-9%2F&data=04%7C
01%7C%7C2294483533304d0751f708d93735d236%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
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HwrxiRUUJqN4FF6SC2NaEBJjv6EUos73M%3D&reserved=0
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.ma
tronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D502586%23502586&data=04%7C01%7C%7C2
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Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Oshkosh 2021 |
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 24, 2021, at 1:16 PM, Jeffrey Williams <jeffwill55@sbcglobal.net> w
rote:
>
bcglobal.net>
>
> Hi Jim, et al:
>
> I am a bit confused. My calendar says July 26th is a Monday. So, just for c
larification, is the Europa Forum on Monday July 26, or Tuesday July 27th, 2
021?
>
> Thanks in advance for the elucidation.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff W.
>
>> On Jun 20, 2021, at 3:26 PM, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Oshkosh is scheduled for July 26 - Aug 1.
>>
>> The Europa Forum is scheduled for Tuesday, July 26 from 8:30 - 9:45 AM. T
he location is the Homebuilders Hangar (same location as previous) which is i
n grid K9 on the grounds map. The forum is casual, mostly a chance to meet.
>>
>> We're looking forward to seeing many of you!
>>
>> Jim & Heather
>>
>> PS There is a informal beer tasting Sunday, July 24 starting at 4PM in H
omebuilt Camping area (grid H8 on the grounds map). Bring some beer from ho
me to share!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502482#502482
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Oshkosh 2021 |
Oops! It's actually Tuesday, July 27 as Michael has noted.
Sorry, it must be old age!!
See you there.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502590#502590
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